[StellarMotion]

Angel, as soon as I find out what kind of cover charge they are thinking of applying I will post it on this thread. I have a feeling that it will be minimal, but I have to talk some more to the manager. My suspicion at the moment is that $10 would be the maximum.

[StellarMotion]

I am so excited! I can’t wait to meet some of the fabulous pole community in Columbus and surrounding areas! As soon as I have any more information about the performances or other events of the weekend I’ll be sure to post it here and also on my Facebook page!

[StellarMotion]

Earthpanther, yes, this is what works best for me too. I’m glad I’m not the only one that performs wrist seat this way!

[StellarMotion]

isisandshiva, perhaps you could tell some of the studios near you that you’d like to have a workshop from Stephanie, and then her chances of getting invited to your state for a workshoppe would be much higher!

[StellarMotion]

Missy, sorry to hear about your accident and I wish you a super fast recovery!

[StellarMotion]

Makes perfect sense, thanks a lot! And I’ll see if the rubber mallet trick works on another day when I’m not getting ready to take Francine in for a show….

[StellarMotion]

Hi Hazel,

I am not sure exactly what causes this, but if I am understanding you correctly, I have had the same recurring problem. It seems almost as though something in the hip flexor is out of place and wants to "pop," even though there isn’t any bone right there! Mind you I am not well-versed enough in physiology to give you a description of what it is, but I can tell you about my experience with this problem.

For starters, I find that it is mainly triggered by extreme movements. These can be kicks, lifts, or stretches of any magnitude that is outside of my usual range of motion. Activities such as running, flexibility training, or strength training seem to precede the onset of it. I find, in general, that while it is in pain, stretching or exercising that area seems to increase the problem. I assume that some gentle stretching would be fine, but I tend to kind of have a problem doing "gentle" stretches. I have found, however, that after a few days time, or a week, or however long it takes the majority of the discomfort to subside, that to do some moderate strength training does wonders to help protect this area. After mine started to feel better, I began to do some very slow, controlled circular motions with the widest possible range of motion with both my legs, in both clockwise and counter-clockwise directions, and from both standing (with a wall or char nearby for balance and stability) and lying positions. Weak hip flexor muscles will "feel the burn" pretty fast.

For the most part, now, I can split, V-lift, teddy bear, run, and do most other activities and movements that involve extreme contractions, elongations, and exertions from the musculature along the hip flexor without pain.

One very good stretch for the hip flexor is the warrior pose from Yoga. Another is as follows: if you wish to stretch your right hip flexor, enter a kneeling position by lunging forward with your left leg. Slightly arch your back, and slightly turn your right shoulder forward so that your left pivots back. For a slightly more challenging stretch, you may raise your right arm and lean over to your left side. I’ve heard Veena recommend using the Dove and Bow/Bridge poses for stretching the hip flexors.

But I would suggest doing only very light stretches, or no stretches at all, until the pain mostly goes away. And when you do begin stretching and exercising it, don’t forget to have a good warm-up first. In my experience, rest has been of the greatest benefit for this problem. Ibuprofen and daily or twice-daily application of an ice pack may be helpful also if there is discomfort even when you are not exerting or stretching the muscle.

[StellarMotion]

I had to add… I really think that the "shoulder split" is an ugly move. But I love Jenyne’s variation with the trapped leg. Too bad that move is so difficult, I’ve got the basics of it down but it’s still looking kinda ugly when I try it.

Oh, and I absolutely despise watching anyone kick or leap into the twisted grip handspring. There’s a front handspring and a cartwheel mount handspring which are perfectly fine types of handsprings to kick or leap into. The true grip can also be used for "kicked" handsprings. But when I see kickoffs into twisted grip all I can think is "ouch" even if the rest of the dance is beautiful. Seeing this handspring kicked or leapt into distracts and disturbs me so much that it will entirely ruin an otherwise magnificent dance for me.

[StellarMotion]

Okay, so when I read this thread last week I tried to remember whether I had dreamt about anyone from StudioVeena before, and I couldn’t recall any dreams in which Veeners were present. So it’s changed now! Bear with me, there’s a lot of dream here but I think it’s really wierd and bizarre, so I’m going to tell the whole thing even though there is only one Veener who isn’t even there until almost the end part of the dream.

So most of this dream takes place in a Hotel, and it seems to be a luxury hotel of some kind. I’m sharing a suite with my parents for some reason (would never happen in real life). At the start, I accidentally went through the wrong corridor of the hotel and ended up in an employee-only area. When I found someone who could direct me out of it, he sent me into one of the banquet halls where a gay wedding was taken place. One of the men was dressed as the bride, and for some reason even though I didn’t know this couple, I had to stand in for the father of the bride and "give him away" at his wedding. LOL

After that I went outside through the Southeast exit of the Hotel where there was a river with a very tall bank. For some reason parts of this bank were paved with cement. My grandmother is there too now, so I take her with me to the river and we get on the first little boat that we find. This is unlikely in real life as my grandmother is elderly and feeble right now. I notice a bridge high over us made of rope and boards. The river is pushing us along quickly and I ask, "Mimi, is this too fast for you?" She replies, "Oh, no honey, this is just real neat! You know your Mimi never worries about a thing when I know you’re around."

Later on, for some reason, we were in some kind of open flying machine together and my grandmother was the pilot. I describe it as "open" because there wasn’t like a windshield, so it was kind of like a jet-ski with propellors. My grandmother was driving and I was standing on the platform behind her, holding onto a some handle-bars that were put there for passenger stability. While I am up there, I find these odd cards with people’s names on them in a bag that I was carrying with me and I know they’re either tickets or invitations of some kind. I put them away because I don’t want them to blow all over the place while I am on the funny jet-ski helicopter thing with my grandmother. I notice that my grandmother has some really cool viewfinders that she gets to look at the ground in and I’m curious about what she can see. As if by telepathy she picks up on my curiosity and offers me the pilot seat. "Oh, thank you Mimi!" Then we fearlessly do some daredevil maneuver to trade places on the narrow flying machine, each risking falling several hundred feet.

The two viewfinders have really cool perspectives. One is aerial and one is the ground below. We’re still passing over the area where the river we took our boatride was (I have no idea where our boat went, but who cares, the jet-ski helicopter is a lot more fun!) and there are people relaxing by the riverbank. This one viewfinder is so precise and sharp that I can read one person’s newspaper from the ground through it. Suddenly I remember my grandmother’s age and health condition and realise she is standing on the platform behind the pilot seat holding onto those handlebars. "Hey Mimi, are you okay up there?" I asked, and she replied, "Oh yes sweetheart, your Mimi’s doing just fine." I was slightly worried that she might fall off the flying device, but felt reassured that she wasn’t having any trouble staying on.

We are getting closer to the hotel where I’m staying, and I see that rope-and-board bridge that we passed under earlier, and I realise that I’m flying way too low. I then realise I do not know how to increase the elevation of this flying machine, but that my grandmother does. Unfortunately there is not enough time to ask or to trade seats again, so I bent one of the propellor blades on the bridge and thus began our rapid descent to the ground. We didn’t just do a dead drop straight to the ground as there were still some propellors intact and turning. I took hold of my grandmother and placed her over myself so that I could buffer her fall, but she is laughing at me because she thinks its really funny that I wrecked the flying machine and that we’re falling now. LOL

So our landing was rough. I asked, "Are you okay, Mimi?" She replied, "Oh yes, my darling. It’s gonna take a lot more than that to slow your Mimi down!"

We walked up the river bank back to the hotel and parted ways. I have no idea where Mimi was before or where she went from thence. Anyhow, I got back into the bag and started looking at those little invitation/ticket thingies. Meanwhile, my mother and Lian Tal of Body and Pole are having a fierce argument!!! Apparently most of the cards are for men, but Lian also needs to be there, and my mother thinks it should not be co-ed because the presence of women is going to be too distracting. I’m personally torn between defending Lian from my mother who is screaming and hurling a lot of ugly personal insults at her, and finding some kind of material upon which to print, write, or otherwise generate one of these documents for Lian! Defend Lian from mom, or make a document? Its so hard to decide! Ultimately I generated the document that would get Lian into the event, and then proceeded to go help Lian shut my mother down. After we were finished taking care of Mother, I gave Lian the document and explained why I didn’t come to her defense earlier. She was obviously still shocked and horrified by my mother’s behaviour, but told me she understood and thanked me very much for the help both acquiring the document, and with getting Mother to shut up and go away.

[StellarMotion]

Miss Julie, Bertysbooboo peforms a couple Ayshas with variations in this new video on her new Star Standalone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBCt_C2EI2c

Wow I never knew about this pole before and now I’m really interested! I wonder how soon the extra extention piece(s) are going to be available? I’d love to do outdoor poling on a 10ft. brass pole.

Does anyone know the maximum height for X-stage?

[StellarMotion]

Hi Skittles, et al. I enjoy this move and was impressed with Alethea’s. Its called chopstix. There’s a video on this site of Karol instructing someone (I think Ottersocks maybe?) how to perform this move in a variation which keeps one hand on the pole. I recently picked this move up and its the most recent video on my SV profile. I cannot get into this move as quickly or as gracefully as Alethea does, but I’m going to keep trying to improve mine and hopefully flatten it a little more.

[StellarMotion]

I also really liked the Superman that Fleur did in her USPDF routine. I was astonished by how pretty her entry was, and I appreciated that it wasn’t held very long.

Now I should say I am a fan of both the Teddy Bear and the Yogini as well as most moves relying primarily on underarm grip (like hood ornament!). But there are few things I hate more than seeing a lazy Yogini. I guess I am a Yogini snob of sorts, because I think it’s extremely important for a Yogini to make a nice, bowed shape and the knees need to be high. I always tell people when practicing this move to look slightly up, tilt the hips in toward the pole, and flex through the quadriceps to create a bowed shape. Otherwise, the knees are pointed out, and it looks lazy and ugly, like a sack of potatoes hanging off of the pole. The recent Yogini variation that Jenyne has been doing, with the leg on the side of the holding arm being pulled backward while the leg on the free side is being pulled forward into an oversplit is also lovely.

[StellarMotion]

Hi! And this question isn’t stupid!

I think that in most holds requring two hands being placed on the pole, that the lower bracket is usually the one that can create turn or put the brakes on it. So if you’re really wanting to stop the turning, being more mindful of how you place your lower hand is a good place to start. You may have to experiment to see which hand placement is best for you. Some people place their hand under one buttock or the other, and I’ve seen some people perform this move who almost look as though they are resting the thigh on the wrist. My preference for this move is to place my wrist right down the middle between my legs (hope that doesn’t sound too graphic) because it allows me a little more room to lean back. This may depend a lot on each person’s arm length and body type, so just play with the placement of the lower hand until you find the placement that you prefer! Also don’t forget to really engage (without straining) the muscles of your wrist and forearm when you perform this move, as that will add stability to your grip and will also protect the joints along your wrist and elbow, which can be heavily taxed if a large amount of your body weight is being supported on it. Don’t forget that most of the weight should be carried by your top bracket, and also remember to pull in with the abdominal muslces! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_thumleft.gif All these things should help you stop or control any undesirable turning.

But on the other hand, I also want to ask you this. Why do you want to stop the turn? In my opinion, the ability to turn a static pose can be a very pretty addition to a pole dance and enable some beautiful transitions. So instead of stopping the natural turn that seems to be happening when you perform this move, you can start this pose from a slight side angle, so that when you turn in this pose it directs you to the angle you want to be facing (mirror, audience, instructor, classmates, etc.)! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif Using natural turn this way on a static pole can really impress a viewer. Just watch any of Veena’s videos on the static pole, or the static pole part of Felix’s world championship winning routine for examples of how beautiful turning a pose on static pole can be.

[StellarMotion]

What’s funny is that moves I used to not care for very much, I now appreciate because of their danceworthiness when used in transition! Examples of this would be the figurehead, which I now admire when well executed. I also now appreciate the apprentice, superman, tucked sit, and some of the others I didn’t care to see before, as long as they are not held for extended periods of time. I think many moves, such as inverted crucifix or split grip V are only useful as long as they are used as part of a transition, but are not usually attractive moves to hold for several seconds time. On that note, I agree with Polergirl that the inverted V move is a great way to get inverted, but not a very interesting position to hold.

I will agree with what was said earlier by Journey about the stationary caterpillar. Climbing caterpillar is very useful, but a stationary caterpillar seems like a waste of time. I have no fondness at all for doing leg waves in inverted moves like inverted V, Pencil, Aysha, or superinvert. I also agree with Empyrean that returning from any kind of handspring (front, cartwheel, twisted grip, or whatever other kind) to a standing position on the floor is not getting the maximum use out of the handspring and I am always slightly disappointed to see that happen. Handsprings, in my opinion, can be a fantastic way to begin an aerial combo, and returning to a floor stand just seems anti-climactic to me, although dropping from an aerial handstand position into a floor split is often very nice.

I am not fond of various kinds of floor handstands that are done against the pole, most of the time. And I do not like the bow and arrow. And in the political climate of today’s pole world, this might be considered sacrilege, but I do not like the Allegra. Jenyne’s contortionistic variation with the huge oversplit would be the exception, but I’ve yet to see many others perform an Allegra that I thought looked beautiful, unless it was transitioned out of quickly.

I’ve lost fondness for some moves, like the Genie, which regardless of being impressive and terribly difficult, is totally awkward in terms of transition. I’m going to play with some more ins-and-outs from the Genie, but if I can’t figure out anything pretty I’m just going to scrap that one. I never thought the knee hold was especially pretty, but I still use it because people love that move. I like doing that move more now that I’ve learnt to perform it with ankles unhooked.

Fleur, I’m interested in which variations of the wrist seat you have seen or done that do not use V leg positioning. It never even crossed my mind that the legs could be positioned otherwise!

I have mixed feelings about the jackknife, but I use it anyway. I do like Aysha and Straight Edge quite a lot, but only if the chest and hips are some distance from the pole. For this reason, I do not favor the forearm grip for most moves as I feel it keeps the chest too close to the pole to be pretty or impressive.

[StellarMotion]

Hi Horsecrazy,

There are two ways that your question can be taken. There are the full-on inverted spins that are started from the spinning chopper, and then there’s also some amount of natural turn that happens as a result of the combined momentum of leg movement with the shifting of the skin against the pole. Personally I’m a big fan of both of these kinds of skills. Some experts at doing the inverted spins would include Sarah Cretul (Joy) and JK of the jkdfefiesgravity channel on YouTube. And certainly an expert at the latter is our own Veena, who seems to be magically able to keep a lot of her static poses "turning" and even though it looks like pure sorcery, it’s just a high degree of skill.

So… mind you, if you can’t lift into an inverted V position, I’d advise not to do the spinning chopper which requires a full-body swing and semi-kick in order to get into that position. Let the body be thrown out from the pole as if you were going into a corkscrew spin or performing a windmill, except while you still have tremendous spinning momentum lift into the inverted V position while still spinning in your baseball grip. If you want to go into the inverted thigh hold while maintaining some spin, I would make two suggestions. Don’t go directly into the Tammy, but hook your outside leg first to go into Gemini, and then kick your free leg to the other side of the pole. The other suggestion would be to have your holding leg in the Tammy be hooked around the pole instead of flush against it, since you’ll be fighting your own body’s momentum. You can make a couple rotations in that spinning Tammy on static, or you can shift your legs into Scorpio in order to maintain movement. The looser your body grip the more spin you’ll get out of the leg hang positions, but you’ll have to experiment and play with that a little so that you know just how loose that grip can be while still keeping you on the pole. A good example of this would be Sarah Cretul’s inverted combination spin, which from what I can tell starts from spinning chopper to Gemini left, swing around to Gemini right, and then lift into Superman. She does this in the Pole Superstar competition, and also in her Joy videos. Also, any video you find of JK will have inverted static spins. Please be mindful that until you are used to this amount of friction, these types of spins are murder on your thighs.

The alternative isn’t quite so painful, but even though it’s not as flashy it’s still very beautiful. Your skin will turn you as it shifts against the pole while you are shifting your position on it, even if there is a minimal amount of momentum. For example, when I go from hip hold into Jade split on the static pole, I sometimes get over 180 degrees of turn even when I’m on brass. This works for other body grips too, like teddy bear holds and ballerinas. Experiment with contracting the muscles of your thigh, hip, underarm, or any other body part that is gripping the pole to see if, where, and how much it turns you. Veena is an excellent inspiration in this regard as she has a positive genius for turning her static holds with little or no momentum. There will be a little bit of natural turn every time you shift between related positions, such as Gemini, hip hold (don’t forget that the hip hold turns itself when you go from V to pike and back!), Jade Split, Scorpio, Tammy, and inverted crucifix. You can find out how much turn you’ll get from each shift and then immediately make another shift into one of the other positions that the previous one will transition into. So technically, if you were to use only these positions in transition from one to another from a static pose at the top of the pole, you could "spin" all the way down the pole in these inverted hip and thigh-grip based poses, assuming you allow yourself to lose a little height each time you transition.

Tabbycat, I really enjoyed watching the link you posted! That was lovely.

[StellarMotion]

JorShi,

I wanted to chime in on the age issue. I’m 27 right now and I’m coming up on a year of poling sometime soon and I’m intending to participate in competitions, should I become eligible for any that allow male participants. I have also been very concerned about the age issue, because many of the ladies in our beautiful pole world are winning titles at ages younger than the age at which I began pole! And as happy as I am for the young bucks, this can also be disheartening because I didn’t have the luxury of discovering pole at a younger age. However I take great heart in some of the performances delivered by the 30-something pole dancers, and also by the titles that they win!

Becca Butcher is 29 and has been pole dancing for less than two years I believe. This is not a big age stretch, but she is still a very successful pole dancing performer and competitor at an age greater than our own. I’m a big fan! It won’t surprise me in the slightest if she earns a national title of some kind in the upcoming years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nddpqKchyos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At the time that this beautiful pole performance was delivered, Galina Troschenko was 35 years old. This performance won her the Spanish national title that year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MdOhgpPmcI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also age 35 was Maxine Betts, delivering this performance which won her the UK title last year! This means she will be representing the UK at the world championships in Jamaica this year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogmexeHu4lI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When she competes at the world competition, she will be 36 https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif

Let’s not forget the beautiful Pantera, who is still going strong at 32, and who inspired the successful career now enjoyed by Jenyne Butterfly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVk78uiB6I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then there is our own lovely Veena, whose age you can discern from her profile https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif but who doesn’t look a day older than either of us. This is one of the Veena videos that inspired me in a tremendous way when I had barely begun poling last Summer. The video is almost a year old, but the movement in the video is still cutting edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucB4gapPeo4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So anyway, JorShi, when I start to really feel afraid about my age (which is often) I think about these various highly successful pole dancers. I believe that it is quite possible that if I do the things I ought in order to remain healthy and maintain and improve the level of my poling, that I can continue to have performance opportunities even if I don’t get to compete at the top level. But with that said, I can’t think of a single good reason not to continue refining my pole dancing skills until they are sufficient to be competitive. And even if I never get to compete, I still want to keep refining them! Anyhow, I hope you can take heart in these inspirational ladies and their performances the way that I do. It’s harder to believe when WE are the ones doing the aging https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_bigsmurf.gif but it’s true, age really is just a number, not a fitness level or a measurement of skills. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_thumleft.gif

So in short, no! You are not crazy!

[StellarMotion]

Sexy to me is so hard to define. Personally, I think that any form of intentionally controlled movement can be sexy, whether its done on a pole or in Swan Lake, as long as there is some emotion being communicated by the person doing the movement. For that matter, I think that being fully absorbed in any activity and fully present in the moment and in one’s body is remarkably sexy, whether it is a dance, the delivery of a lecture, the writing of a letter, or anything else. The look in a person’s eyes that a point needs to be made and that there is an experience (even if thinly disguised) of enjoyment in making the point is something that can intrigue and sexually excite me, regardless of whether the point is being made through a dance performance, an instrumental or vocal performance, a lecture or slam poetry recital, or even the simple composition of one’s outfit for the day. This is similar to something I think pole_twista said about a guy being absorbed in something he loves.

In terms of physique, haha, I have a type for sure, but I am not rigid about adhering to it. Being physically fit is an absolute requirement for my dating preference. I prefer dark and straight hair, dark eyes, and muscles that protrude at least slightly more than my own but these preferences are more flexible. I generally prefer that a romantic interest of any kind be wider in terms of proportion than myself. I am turned on by raspy voices whether these are spoken in a low range or a high one, and most often I am more likely to be attracted to a guy that is shorter than I am than one that is taller. To me dancing is sexy even if a great deal of dancing skill is not exhibited, as long as it looks natural and fun instead of forced and uncomfortable or technically perfect but inexpressive. And anyone who eats my cooking and acts like they like it earns major sexy points with me, and gets more points for eating the second meal I cook.

The way touching is done is very important. A balanced approach to touching is unbearably sexy. Tickling or touching too lightly is not even remotely engaging to me, and being handled roughly is actually something I find quite revolting. But there is a middle place that it seems like not very many people can (or are willing to) find and it drives me crazy when a guy can.

Lastly in terms of pole dancing, to me sexy is mostly in the attitude. Being enticing without being suggestive I think can be really wonderful. But to me, even more sexy, is what I was mentioning earlier; full presence in body and expressiveness of (any) emotion through movement. I personally can’t always do that on the pole although I can pretty consistently get there if I am out dancing at a night club and I like the music that is being played. And unfortunately I can’t get there alone with a camera when I’m on the pole at all for the most part https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_pale.gif but I can do it with a live audience fine. Isn’t that wierd?

[StellarMotion]

Duckie, in my opinion, you are not allowing yourself to "turn" enough in your Cartwheel Mount Handspring. Try to think about turning to where not only is your face directed at the pole, but so that your hips are facing the pole too. This should allow you to bring your hips in closer to the pole so that you will have more control while you are getting conditioned to this move, and should help to "straighten" out your Straight Edge.

For the Spinning Scorpio it’s important to swing your free leg out and around instead of throwing it over. This will generate momentum which will carry you through the move with a more natural-looking spin. Instead of bringing the leg over and then beginning the transition, include the leg swing as part of the move, so that all the movements involved look like a single movement.

[StellarMotion]

HI, Isisandshiva. Love your screen name!

I don’t know what a Venus is. But if you’d like to be able to keep up with the class, I think you would benefit from some strength and endurance training of the muscles involved in the holds and inverts. Unfortunately developing the strength to do advanced moves can take a long time. But if you want some safety advice that you can employ right away, my suggestion would be to stop doing moves that you seem savvy enough to know you cannot do safely at this time. So, obviously there’s skin pain from friction. But if you feel pain in your muscles or joints, STOP. If you feel afraid that you’re going to lose control of a move, STOP. If you try several moves that require a lot of exertion and your muscles get very fatigued, STOP. There’s nothing more dangerous than temporary muscle failure during an inverted move.

I agree with Mini that you should consider expressing some of your concerns about safety to the instructor. Also bear in mind that there are a lot of fun, beautiful moves that can be done on and around a pole without having to invert, or do other activities that your muscles may not be currently prepared for. If your instructor does not address your safety concerns/fears in a proactive way, maybe that particular studio is not the right one for you.

Veena has a strong emphasis on safety in all of her work. So if you don’t feel safe in your current class, just remember that Veena’s lessons will teach you fun and pretty moves you can do at your current level of poling, will give you strength and flexibility training that will help prepare you for more advanced moves, and her lessons probably cost a lot less than the lessons at your studio. If nothing else, you could use the Veena lessons to become stronger and more advanced, and then return to your current pole class later on when your body is better prepared to handle performing the difficult, strenuous, and advanced moves your instructor is teaching. But by that time, there’s always the chance that you could end up being more advanced than the instructor!

If your shoulder is giving you problems, that may be your body’s way of asking you to stop hurting yourself. Maybe you and your friend can do the Veena lessons online together. I am sure you’ll have a better time practicing moves that you can do, than you are while you’re forcing yourself into dangerous positions that you can’t successfully pull off.

By reading your post, I feel that you already know the answer to your question. Take my response and Mini’s as confirmation of what your body and intuition have already declared.

Take good care of yourself. Don’t risk the health of your shoulder. You could possibly turn a minor injury into a severe and permanent one if you don’t honor your body’s present limits. And there’s always the risk of landing on your head, twisting your neck or wrist, or having some other fall-related injury even if your shoulder is fine. Whatever you do decide to do, just please think about your safety first. The rest can come in time.

[StellarMotion]

Thanks for sharing this… sounds like I need to go the grocery store! As it stands I spend a lot of money on Clif/Zone/Balance bars to get some extra calories and protein on-the-go, but this sounds like a wholesome project to try. Cool!

[StellarMotion]

I use the twisted grip and I don’t mind talking about it. I have experienced some pains as the result of using the twisted grip which have kept me off of the pole for days at a time. Part of this is the physical awkwardness of the position itself, and part of it has been negligence on my own part. But I have also caused myself certain pains by doing other moves like the cartwheel mount. I think any move can be dangerous or harmful for someone whose musculature isn’t prepared for it in terms of strength and flexibility, and even the very strong and very flexible can hurt themselves by trying advanced moves without being warmed up adequately first.

Here are some things I like about the twisted grip. I will preface this by saying I only like twisted grip after I am inverted. But once I am inverted, the grip feels more natural and seems less taxing on the wrist and elbow of my top bracket than does the split grip (or cartwheel mount). In addition to this, it offers a lot more control over the aerial movement done in inverted holds. Also, I feel like the twisted grip allows me to hold my torso straighter without the odd sideways-bowing that I have found characteristic of the split grip in inversions. Lastly, I really like that this grip offers the ability to do very slow and controlled lifts and dismounts, instead of leaps and falls.

Now here are some things that I do not like at all about the twisted grip! From the floor, it feels very awkward and can be painful if I am not very precise about my hand and body positioning. Also, pushing off into a slow lift, I have found, puts a lot of strain on the shoulder of my lower bracket (usually left for me) which can leave that shoulder hurting for a couple days (after all, a body is a lot of weight to put there). Further, if I have to shift around too much to get myself inverted in the twisted grip, I find that there is some discomfort for a day or two following behind my right shoulder blade and on the right side of my neck.

I do feel that most of the problems that I have had using the twisted grip could have been mostly alleviated though, if I had been fully warmed up before attempting to do any twisted grip handspring work. Also, whenever I do strength training, I use the Y.T.I. exercise formula that is posted in Veena’s video. My friend panda (squishypanda9 who just joined the site today) has been doing that exercise and also Veena’s wrist/forearm exercises with me, and I feel much safer when I’m on the pole knowing that I’m using Veena’s advice to strengthen and protect some of my very vulnerable muscles and joints. And I’ve been on enough forced sabbaticals from the pole to realise that I’m just not going to get away with performing demanding pole moves when not adequately warmed up. And if I weren’t as stubborn and sometimes dumb as I can be, I would have learnt the first time.

All that said, I learned all of the other grips before I started trying to work with TG. And I fully agree with Veena that this grip should be done from an invert before attempting the handspring. Even though I use the handspring, I still really enjoy going into the twisted grip from a "princess grip" shoulder mount. Once you get your legs on the pole, you can drop your lower bracket, and voila! You’re in twisted grip and can butterfly, aysha, or whatever. I like doing inverted bodywave in twisted grip, and when I do it makes everyone at work go crazy!

I am not overly fond of the current TG obsession that’s going around right now. It almost looks like its a requirement in order to stay competitive, and I think that’s too bad. There are so many beautiful and challenging moves that can be performed on the pole without having to use twisted grip, and most moves that can be done with this grip can be done with other grips. Handspring "lifts" can be done with true grip although this may take more strength and more training. I presently cannot "lift" into anything with that grip, but it has to be possible because its been done in every Chinese pole performance I’ve ever seen. The straight edge, aysha, and jackknife, can be done with the split, forearm, or elbow grips. I’m sure that if I practiced a little more I could get an inverted bodywave with elbow or forearm grip… and actually after watching this thread, I’m sure I really ought to work on that. I agree with Veena that TG isn’t for everyone, and for myself I have found that I can only use the TG handspring in moderation unless I am just in the mood to do some suffering for a day or two to follow. I have a suspicion that the need for moderation in TG may be a universal one, but each poler knows her/his body better than I!

[StellarMotion]

Empyrean, it’s so funny, this is the second time I’ve realised I was performing a move wrong after reading one of your posts. The first time was when we were talking about the shoulder mount with Carrie, and you described the leg positioning for inverted crucifix as being like an upside-down fireman. That was when I realised I had been executing AND teaching the fireman spin wrong! Hahaha! Now that’s one of my favorite stories to tell about myself, that in spite of all the supposedly "advanced" moves I can perform, I still screw up on the beginner ones! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif So now I see that the death drop is a drop from inverted crucifix, wheras previously I had been trying to do that drop from the Tammy!

Aye-yai, thank the Gods for your background and training. Oh and by the way I have finally begun practicing some moves with the true grip and you seem to be right about it. Fleur gave me some encouragement on this topic too. I’m a bit stronger now than the last time I attempted to use this grip, and I feel like if I keep practicing with this grip I’ll have a Chinese Flagpole ready this year and in a roundabout way I’ll have you to thank for it when it happens.

So anyway, keep posting on this forum; there’s no telling what else I’ll find out I’ve been doing wrong! Hahah https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_redface.gif

[StellarMotion]

LOL Tex! Actually I agree with a lot of what you had to say. My tubes locked the first time I set up my X-pole, and I bent the "chopsticks" trying to unlock them. I even slightly bent the release holes in the tube. Even though the C-cup release tools work great, I would have preferred if the X-pole package was effective without additional purchases. I also am not fond of having the height adjuster screw and dome at the top of the pole because I don’t trust the height adjust cover and I would like to be able to do a successful death lay at home. Even though I still like X-pole, I can admit that most of your criticisms of that product make perfect sense to me.

Sorry to hear about your shipping problems with the company too. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Deetron, yes that sounds like it would be a fun thread! I never use the height adjuster cover anymore, I just don’t trust it. I feel like it reduces my total usable pole instead of increasing it, by covering the top inch or two of the pole. But I think that having the adjuster cover at the bottom of the pole sounds like a good idea… unless my fingers are going to get pinched if my hands slide during an inverted hold!

[StellarMotion]

Sabrina, well, I DID have to hit backspace like 83927 times! Haha! And actually I think I may have gone from drunken to buzzed over the course of writing that post. But thank you for reading it, I know it was long. And thanks for expressing your appreciation!

FreeTheSun, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I am incredibly interested in what you have shared. I appreciate that you were able to contribute some information that was not at my disposal. Even though I suppose its possible that pole as we know it presently was the idea of a strip-club proprietor, it’s nice to hear alternatives regarding where it may have originated from. Whether our pole’s origin originates in stripping or not would not change my feelings about it, but when information surfaces that encourages us to question information which is innately questionable, it’s always a boon.

Veena, I get so emotional about music and dance too! I didn’t know you were a musician yourself, so it was cool to learn something new about you. I too wish I had been introduced to pole (and musicianship!) at a younger age. And music/dance seems anymore to be among the only things powerful enough to induce tears in my eyes. I hope that dance and pole always stay compatible too.

[StellarMotion]

Hello, friends. (and many of you I really do consider to be friends.) Forgive me if any of this isn’t expressed correctly, as I’m presently somewhat intoxicated. I will not blame any of my sentiments on intoxicants, but merely the expression thereof. But let me make it perfectly clear I offer no apology of any kind for anything previously stated. I do not take offense to having the information I present challenged, as I am not emotionally connected to it. I also do not take offense to having the opinions expressed in my entries challenged, as I acknowledge these are only personal opinions and not universally adopted ideologies.

I want to start by simply reiterating some points I’ve already made. I hate to be redundant, but in this situation I feel that repeating specific ideas that I’ve already shared may be appropriate.

1.) I do not eschew sexuality in our beloved art of pole dancing. I merely feel that it is only one of many, one of countless dimensions that can be expressed through our artform. I wish to be able to express this dimension, but only as an adornment to polework, not as it’s primary or only emphasis; and I wish to develop a multitude of other adornments as well that can run concurrent with it.

2.) Even though I recognise that pole dancing is not stripping, pole dancing is not prostitution, and stripping is not prostitution, I believe that all three of these activities are valid and that their practitioners deserve to be treated with respect, and deserve the opportunity to operate within their respective mediums without judgment, chastisement, or sanction, or the fear of any of these three being visited upon oneself.

3.) I do not believe that pole is inherently disconnected from the erotic, nor does it bear an inherent connection. Any artistic medium can be used to express erotic feelings, or any number of other feelings whether these be connection with sexuality or not. I believe art is a broad field, if that’s not too exaggerated a form of understatement. It’s breadth can absolutely expand to encompass sexuality. But if sexuality becomes a primary focus, art becomes contracted to express only one idea instead of expanded to express the full range of human emotion and experience. No reason is apparent to me that we should not treat this like any other form of dance, or to broaden the concept, any form of art, which can be used to express more than a multitude of different kinds of feelings, experiences, ideas, and attitudes.

4.) The comments I have made have been gender-neutral, not specifically addressed toward women. I am not applying one standard for women that is not being applied toward men, or vice-versa. In fact, I’m not applying any standards whatsoever. What I have done is to share a variety of observations and opinions, which are not specific toward members of one gender or another, or to any other specific group of persons. I have considered myself a feminist since my early teens, or maybe even before that. As such, I think it’s significant to defend women’s rights to be sexual and express sexuality, and that its equally important to defend women’s rights to not be sexual or express sexuality when she doesn’t feel like it.

When I expressed feeling irritated by the dialogue between my friend and I at the Chinese restaurant, I was not feeling irritated because I was free to express sexuality. I was irritated because of the implied obligation to do so, and the limitations that are implied by such an obligation. I would not, in such a scenario, be "free" to express my sexuality at all; but rather, I would be expected to express sexuality. A look of wistfulness would be unacceptable, for only bedroom eyes would suffice. Finding a way to express remorse, anxiety, or jollity would be unacceptable, unless it could somehow be connected to sex. And when I purchased my X-pole, I had no intention of purchasing a shackle that would bind me to sex performance. I intended to buy the option of a new way to perform and further refine my performance of that, among a much broader range of other experiences. Sexuality was only a piece of the picture, and the picture was worlds larger.

If I have somehow expressed that I place a value judgment on individuals who perform sexy dances, it has only been because I have communicated inaccurately. I have placed an aesthetic judgment on overtly sexual performances, and that judgment is this and nothing more: it is not my personal primary aesthetic preference. I can appreciate some of these performances, and I can respect the ones that I don’t appreciate. They simply aren’t my favorite.

My previous posts on this thread have been efforts to condense and combine descriptions of my personal goals related to pole, my ideas about how pole is progressing as an artform and its potential, and my observations about the way pole tends to be treated.

I would further like to reiterate that my previous posts and the language therein on this thread have been and remain gender-neutral, both in black-and-white text and more subtly by implication. Therefore, any experience or interpretation of chauvinism by the reader is purely his or her own projection. If you find it necessary to have someone to blame for this, I offer myself to wear that mantle. But I think that practicing ownership of ones own projected feelings might be a positive alternative to creating an artificial scapegoat. But if you’re not there yet, you’re not there; so deal with your feelings however you are able. Just please try to avoid treating those feelings as though they were mine, if you can. And if somehow you have gotten the feeling from my other entries on this thread that I find sexuality in pole unacceptable, all I can ask is that you reread them, because that feeling is simply inaccurate in contrast with what was actually said.

I don’t personally know the precise origin of pole as a medium upon which to execute a dance performance. And until a definitive history on the subject is published, this information will remain ambiguous. I have a personal suspicion that pole performance and erotic performance existed separately before someone decided it would be "hot" to combine them, but I will confess unabashed that I really have no idea. I was left with the impression that Jenyne Butterfly was working on compiling that information, though I may have my facts skewed about that as well. But I remain unconvinced that erotic performers were the first to use pole. I believe that a dance pole is a piece of metal that extends upward from the floor, usually to the ceiling, but not always. However if its origins do lie in the strip joints, then perhaps we do not really have the right to express offense when our poles are called stripper poles. If strippers gave birth to the art we celebrate today, we owe them homage rather than disclaimers.

With that I will now proceed to respond to comments made by specific individuals.

Polergirl, I know just what you mean. Sometimes when I’m on the dancefloor of any bar or club and I’m genuinely feeling the music, and it combines with the attention of those dancing around me, there is a sexual energy that raises seemingly of its own accord. But I only feel it as it surfaces. I only permit it to express through me. Sometimes a pole is handy when this occurs, other times not, but either way, it’s magnificent. And whether its sexual or not, when energy raises and expresses itself through me, it’s always a wonderful experience. And I like your point of view.

Amcut, even though you weren’t responding specifically to me, I feel that some of your comments deserve being addressed. First let me say that if I had a teenager, I would not be embarrassed if he or she caught me watching one of your videos. I would invite a daughter to watch your video with me and use you as an example of one healthy way to express sexuality. I would invite a son to watch a video of yours and tell him that this is a powerful creature he is watching who was capable of exacting respect from him whether he volunteered it or not. If you felt personally criticised, know that I honour your dancing and your sexuality just the same. Unlike your own videos, I do not think that all sexual performances, whether on or off the pole, are executed in a tasteful way, but as I have stated before this is only a personal preference of an aesthetic nature, which has nothing to do with either sex or pole. Sometimes I get tired of being a "real person" too, and I agree that being a sex kitten is a great way to escape. It’s an escape I use sometimes as well. Before I worked in a night club, I was a patron, and as a patron I would go dance and often remove a garment or two or three. And the positive attention I would receive was an absolute joy that would help motivate me along the rest of my week. Now, as nightclub staff, I still do some dancing and clothing removal. This is to motivate other patrons to come back and continue to spend their money, and also to motivate them to leave a larger number of larger quantity tips for myself and other staff members. In short, I am using sexuality to enhance my quality of life and that of others in a way that you express "got women by" for aeons past. As the world has continued to evolve, it has become more acceptable for men and women to exchange some roles. Women are now allowed to ogle and adore beautiful men, and men are allowed to seek security and comfort in women. Women are allowed to have careers and all kinds of independence, and men are allowed to set their careers aside to be fathers. Women are now allowed to don power suits and tell the boys what to do, and men are allowed to reach the pinnacle of physical beauty in terms of physique and fashion. Whatever biological roles are programmed in our respective chemistries, society seems now to have evolved, or at least to be in the process of evolving to a point where we as individuals can look past our chemical programming and just live however we may feel appropriate for ourselves, and I like this. I love knowing that either you or myself can be a corporate executive, a sex kitten, anywhere in between, or on both extremes of this spectrum. I do not side with those who feel that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. I think it’s the nature of life to evolve, and that we, in our sexual expression and our highest ambitions alike, are merely making ourselves examples of this rule which we have not set, but rather, which life expresses through us seemingly of its own accord. The daily grind always comes back after we grant ourselves from real person-hood, but integration of seemingly opposite qualities is a goal I strive toward and admire when I observe in others. I love knowing that executives can be sexy, and that milfs can be professionals. We don’t have to choose anymore, and that’s beautiful to me. I can admit that sexuality has never come easily to me, but I have been enjoying its slow and progressive unfolding in recent years.

Poledanceromance, I think you brought up a really interesting and majorly cool point when you mentioned that you would be interested in seeing what some 10-15 year olds could come up with if given adequate pole training. I think typically that it is this age group which vanguards most types of athletic work, especially those kinds which are related to pole such as cheerleading, gymnastics, tumbling, and dance, which essentially could be considered a single artform. My friend Linda recounts to me her days of being a gymnastics champion in her teens, who ended up quitting gymnastics one year when she found that many gymnasts several years her junior were performing at a level which she had not been trained to compete with. But this brings up a point of much interest for me, and that is the issue of personal shame in relationship both to pole and sexuality. If we genuinely do not feel shame about either sexual expression or pole, then there would be nothing inappropriate about introducing these (separately) to our children. Perhaps this could be an adequate gauge with regard to each of our own respective moral thermostats. Would I feel ashamed of myself if my child or someone elses child happened to witness me expressing myself through erotic movement, pole dance, or erotic movement on the pole? If so, then maybe I am not as comfortable in my own relationship to pole or to sexuality as I would like to fancy myself being in my fantasies of being a liberated sexual and/or athletic creature. Children only develop sexual shame by virtue of observation, after all. Repression and rebellion are two sides of the same coin, and it is a coin born at home, borne of observation, and observation specifically of our parents and other authority figures. In short, I think I like the way you think.

Fleur, even if it seemed on the surface like our ideas were at odds, I think you and I are actually very much on the same page. I like that pole can be beautiful, sexy, athletic, and acrobatic; and I like that it can be one, a couple, or all of these at the same time, and that a multitude of other adjectives can be attached to specific performances depending on the performer’s interpretation and execution of the movements employed and the music to which the movements are set. I like how you phrased your statement that you only share the "sexual side" of pole dancing with some and not all, because it implies that sexuality is only one side of a multifaceted cluster. But if I did not understand you correctly please feel free to alert me to my inaccuracy. Either way, I love pole as a means of expression, whether its sexuality being expressed or anything else.

Honeyrose, I was interested in what you shared. In your first post on this thread, you stated that "as long as there are men on the planet, women will be judged." And in your follow-up post you cited only examples of women judging you, including your best friend and the instructor at your previous studio. I don’t think this has to be about gender. Alpha male type men will judge men who are artistic, high-maintainence, or who attract rather than pursue. The latter class will criticise the alpha males, claiming that they are merely neanderthals, behind the times and setting us back as a gender. Reserved and conservative women will criticise women who are sexually autonomous, calling them loose or rebellious, while the latter class will dismiss the former as repressed, weak, or boring. Women’s criticisms of men will typically encompass both of men’s criticisms of one-another, and men’s criticisms of women will encompass both of women’s criticisms of one-another. Sadly, whatever we don’t like in ourselves we project, and what we don’t like in our environments we find someone to blame for. I actually enjoy the sentiment you expressed in both of your posts, I just don’t think it has to be about gender.

Verucablue, hello to you! I don’t know if I’m in a minority who has a certain kind of preference in regard to how I’m approached, whether on an individual basis or by a performer. So I’m willing to acknowledge that my "leading with the butt" comment may have been out-of-turn, or based solely on an individual preference. But let’s hypothetically say for example I had a bottle of wine and a nice conversation with a perfectly adorable guy and then invited him over. If he busted out some of the "sexy" moves that I have seen marketed as "fitness" previously, I would not be aroused; in fact the result would be quite the opposite I’m sure. Again, that’s just aesthetic and entirely personal. I’m sure that the orifice-first approach excites a lot of people. I can say for certain though that I never expressed that pole dancing in a strip club should not be erotic. I do believe its possible for pole dancing to be a family event, but if I went into a strip club I would know what to expect. And if I didn’t like what I saw I would fully own my own responsibility for choosing to go there. Maybe I should have been specific that I was not refering to pole dancing in strip clubs, but rather, in most other venues. I don’t feel that I am "ignoring" anything, only acknowledging that pole dancing has ambiguous origins. No, there’s nothing wrong with heterosexual women cheering for the sexy movement of other heterosexual women. I just find it very unusual, but I’m sure there’s a perfectly reasonable sociological explanation for it that I just haven’t come across yet. I have some theories, but I doubt their usefulness in this discussion. To answer your question, I think there is nothing "wrong" with encouraging others to be sexy. I respect that pole can expose many men and women to the floorwork which will create an expression for their latent, but potentially powerful sexuality. So after the cage is opened, do we continue to "liberate" the latent inner beast on a constant basis? If so, successful sexual liberation has only been achieved to a small degree. Because if pole floorwork is the only medium through which it can be expressed, and it has to be expressed through pole floorwork every time the pole is employed, it is intuitive that the individual in question has gotten stuck in the early stages of this sexual liberation and has not found ways to integrate it into his or her regular personality and daily life. I did not assume everyone started poling for sport or art. But I do think it is possible for all of us, regardless of which medium we have adopted to express ourselves through, to integrate all facets of that medium into our expression through it, and then integrate that expression into daily living. But perhaps I’m a fool to take a shamanistic attitude toward pole. And maybe we will never know either way.

Mindy, I will confess that as I am neither female nor heterosexual, I have no direct personal experience of what it is like to possess the sexuality of either heterosexuals or females. So you might be correct, I may just not get it. What I can tell you is that I have a keen monitor that can tell me whether a woman or man is sexy or not at specific points in time. When I comment on videos here or on YouTube, I usually make it a point to let the poster know when her movement is sexy; and when I do make a point of that it is meant as a compliment and nothing more. But the actual "turn-on" factor is a different matter. I have great respect for sexy in many forms. But my turn-ons can tend to be specific as can my turn-offs. And maybe for women it’s totally different, I honestly just don’t know. That is my concession. I concede that I do not know whether I understand or not. I would like to imagine that male sexuality is more complicated than many females and the pop-psychological establishment would like to believe, but truthfully I don’t know that either. I do know that I don’t intend to act on my feelings every time I am sexually excited, and I do trust that the vast majority of male and female exotic dancers do not act on their sexual feelings (assuming these feelings are not feigned). I trust that patrons at exotic dance establishments are buying the fantasy of an experience, as opposed to the experience itself. I suspect that a prostitute that always acted on his or her aesthetic preferences would rarely if ever earn any money, because more than nine out of ten clients would be turned away. So I really do get it when you’re talking about having the feeling of being sexy being possibly carrying more weight than the experience of having sex. I do not feel that a dancer should refrain from expressing sexual feelings and if I have implied that I feel that way in earlier posts, then I either miscommunicated, or have been misinterpreted, or perhaps some combination of these. But I like diversity. We can have sex and candy, sex and coffee, sex and wine, sex and dinner, sex and cigarettes, or sex and anything else. But to me, diversity is not present unless sex is only making a cameo. If you hear that David C. Owen will be giving a performance and you feel confident that its going to be sexy, even though perhaps I should feel flattered by that assumption, I am more likely to feel flat, one-dimensional, and predictable. I believe that sexuality emerges spontaneously, and that when it does, it is beautiful. But I also feel that if it emerges constantly, it is no longer spontaneous, but a routine, common, and ordinary thing. But then again, I guess that even the ordinary can be beautiful depending on the perspective an individual carries. Let me express here that II can see how my "giggle" comment may have been inappropriate and if there were any part of any of my writings on this thread that I were going to take back, it would be that one. I really don’t want to be a person that laughs at others, and by making that comment I publicly revealed one of my shortcomings. By the way, I began to reply to your last e-mail and got stuck. I’ll probably send an e-mail along to you with my birth data very soon, but will continue your interpretation when the inspiration comes. I’m having a personal dry spell at this point in time both sexually and astrologically. Maybe that is reflected in some of the perspectives that I have shared.

Hi, Scarletthoney. I think it is ambiguous whether the origins of performance on a pole can be found in strip joints or not, but let us assume that it was for a moment. Could this piece of vertical metal not be used for other purposes just because of its origin? Obviously it has been and continues to be used for purposes of erotic entertainment, and I think there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that. But it is equally obvious that not all strippers are pole dancers, and that not all pole dancers are strippers. Items and ideas are used in ways that defy their respective origins all the time. Could that not be true of pole as well? I am not attacking stripping, sex, or sexuality; I am just challenging the idea that these and pole are innately synonymous.

And Runemist! I just want to express that it’s been really cool to watch your responses through this thread. You’ve had feelings you’ve expressed clearly and kindly, and haven’t reacted angrily or defensively to anyone’s comments. I think that is a mark of great confidence and personal fortitude. Your neutrality is refreshing, and much appreciated by the guy with the unpopular opinions. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_flower.gif