Runemist34
Forum Replies Created
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Pole Traceuse – I'm having a really difficult time picturing the suggestion you're trying to describe. Should I be trying to do something like an advanced plank (the pole move)? Should I be trying to do a pushup position with my legs around the pole and hold it that way, like a superman? Should my legs be gripping the pole around the thighs, knees, ankles? How is this different from a plank/push up position?
Perhaps a picture would be easier?
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If you dress like Bowie, you have to make sure to keep adding socks to the front of your pants.
That's what he did in Labyrinth, each scene he would add a sock. 😉
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Hey!
I've done that random hiatus thing a LOT, so I feel your pain. School is really sucking it out of me… but I'm determined!
The move you mentioned sounds like a CKR, or Cross Knee Release- it's a form of "layback," and is currently my preferred way of being inverted, though I'm working on my CAR (Cross Ankle Release, where both legs are straight and crossed at the ankles, and you lean back), it's still pretty scary for me!
If you do those, work on sitting back up from that pose, rather than coming down to the floor while inverted. It really strengthened my abs!
You could work on the Advanced plank (same as basic plank, but placing one hand below you, rather than one above you on the pole, and using your free hand to reach out away from the pole), the Wrist sit, the Bridge (also known as the Crescent, or Crescent moon, and can be done from the CKR), regular pole sit and crucifix, and variations from that (learning the kinds of things to do from that position, like twisting your upper body to the other side of the pole), the Apprentice (or Thigh hold, as Veena calls it), and doing basic inverts from the ground, in order to figure out your leg grip.
Other things that can be good are smoothing out and strengthening those spins you may not feel totally comfortable with, and working on linking moves together. A Reverse handstand (in which you walk your legs up the pole going backwards, hands on the ground) can also be a good way of getting into an Inverted Crucifix, which is another strong teacher of leg grip.
Whew! Who would have guessed all those breaks I had would come in handy, eh?
Keep it up!
I'm usually around most evenings (PST) on Skype if you want to jam, and see some of these moves, too. I'm not the best shower-offer, but I try 😉 And you can look them up on Youtube, the PDC (pole dance community) Syllabus, and maybe a few other places 😉
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First of all, unless you're a superstar gym bunny, most of us started out being untrained. I know that I started out uncoordinated, very low strength, and I still struggle with my flexibility, as well as a few other things. It's sort of part of the journey we go on!
Strength comes with time and effort. Veena's lessons are great, she starts off slow, so that if you are less experienced or less active, she'll get you going in a way that is totally manageable, while also pushing you just that little bit to help you gain strength. Jamilla's Art of Pole series goes a little further… I believe there's a reason for her impressive musculature, and it is probably the amount of training she does. She kicked my butt, and… well, I'll be going back to it soon! I'm really looking forward to pushing myself.
And I hate lifting weights, going to the gym, etc. Closest I get to a "gym" is my climbing gym, where I go and climb walls and make my hands grip things they don't think they can, push my legs harder, and work on some upper body strength (but, with the right technique, you don't need much at my level).
Flexibility is more or less the same. You work for it, it takes time. Some people work toward the splits for years before achieving them. I've been working consistently for them for over a month, and seeing some vague improvement. I think I'm reaching a plateau, but that's okay. I'll get there! Just be aware that, like strength training, flexibility training is very tough on your muscles- you should never cause yourself real pain from doing it, and you need to take rest days.
Finally, I think you need to look at this from a different angle. Saying "I'm weak and inflexible" may be somewhat true, but it's more like… you've got improvement to make, and you want to make it. Rather than looking at what is behind you, look at what you want to put in front of you, put it there, and make it happen. Believing you can learn something is the biggest step. We all start out in ignorance, or in this case, uncoordinated and weak and inflexible, and work our way toward knowledgeable, graceful, strong and flexible. Everyone has their own journey to take, and you might surprise yourself!
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I was, at first, interested to see an article written by intelligent individuals about pole dance… but I was a bit surprised to find it was a blog (you can see "blog" written in the URL) written by someone who hadn't even tried pole dance at all.
I found some of the facts wrong (ONLY for WOMEN! Ha! How about Steven Retchless? Our own Poledancefan? Hmm?), and I found a lot of it to be simple speculation and wonderings… more like a personal essay, rather than an article (an article putting me in the mind of something researched, possibly peer-reviewed).
I have recently discovered that Pole Dance is being offered to the grade 12 girls here in town, which I think is pretty awesome. Miley Cyrus' "Pole dancing" was hanging on to a pole-like apparatus upon a moving platform (I looked it up on Youtube, saw no actual pole dancing).
Further, the "pole dance was set up for the satisfaction and pleasure of men." Umm, what about Burlesque? Belly Dancing? Those are both considered female-empowering dance styles that are highly regarded, particularly in our culture and European culture. Burlesque was the original stripping, and women were arrested for it. Belly Dancing was said to have been something to entertain men, and also said to have helped the women through childbirth, and as a bonding experience. There's a lot more behind "women's empowerment" than just our feminist movement these days!
Finally, I often have the thought to pole DANCE when I hear an excellent song. Grinding on my pole, or any other pole, has little to do with the music, the beat, etc. and more to do with being silly, or being slutty. Either way, it's the woman't choice, and I encourage her to do that… but it has nothing to do with pole dancing.
Just because it's done WITH a pole, doesn't mean it's pole dance. I think a lot of builders would agree with me on that one, too!
Anyways… I hope that this person takes the time to explore the world of pole dance, and find out that it's a lot more than 'grinding on a pole,' because it's sure changed my life for the better, and I would hope it would do the same for others, even if it's just an opening of the mind!
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Thanks Polefly!
Should I lean away from my hooked arm? I assume that I should be making sure my arm stays in front of my face, or should I allow myself to move down, away from my arm, so that my elbow points upward upon the application of weight?
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I agree with Robinb! You should not be "waiting to do something till you're thinner or stronger," you should be doing what you want to do, NOW, and if you get thinner or stronger as a result, and you want to be those things, then, bonus! Veena's lessons will give you lots of beginner work, as well as conditioning for the pole, so you don't need to worry about "getting up to it," you can start doing it.
And yes, the 30 day take off is excellent.
Work at your pace, and at what you can do, and you'll see major improvement!
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Hi Novo!
It's actually really hard to tell which Polekatz dvd's you're talking about… upon further inspection, there's about a million different kinds of "Pole cats/kats/katz" out there, with studios, DVD's, previews of DVD's… it's kind of crazy. Some of them do appear to boast some strength training, but some are hard to get any kind of handle on.
Personally, I find I like Jamilla's Pole DVD's best. She really is careful to explain the whole move to you, break it down into little bitty steps, and show you what's going on from a few angles. She takes her time, there's good lighting, the audio is clear. She even puts things into a mini-routine. She has sections on correct spotting, and takes her time bringing people into things like inversions.
She has strength training sections in all of her DVD's… and they KICKED. MY. BUTT. She's a powerhouse, and it's clear to me why, after trying that.
If you're looking for something to increase flexibility, I strongly recommend Felix Cane's Flexibility DVD. She has a whole set, but I didn't find the rest (other than her floorwork and Artistry one) to be particularly thorough or helpful. She has a few great ideas, but… it's the Flexibility where she really shines. You do kind of have to keep an eye on the screen, though, as she's not great for audio cues.
And then, of course, you have the online lessons here. They're pretty awesome. Everything you could want, including the ability to ask the instructor (Veena) questions if you come across something!
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It’s okay! It happens, and I know that the webmaster here is working on it 😉
Peekaboo and Carmen Electra poles are just for posing with- I’ve heard of some pretty bad accidents happening with those poles!
It’s always good to look into things!
Oh man… One day, I’ll get to go to Ireland!! -
Hey Pebblerz!
This website is probably the best place for beginners. Veena's lessons, which are fairly cheap (especially compared to DVD's) will take you through a lot of strength training and flexibility training, as well as giving you the knowledge to continue through your pole journey in a safe way. It's very important to know what kinds of things you need to do in order to engage your shoulders correctly, for example, and Veena is very adamant about that!
I would also highly recommend doing your research into different brands of poles, and which are considered "reliable" by people who pole dance often. I know that, in North America at least, there are three brands we swear by: Lil Mynx, Platinum Stages, and Xpole. Each has their quirks and occasional issues, but they'll never drop you or fall apart, so you'll be safe with them. Please, be careful about buying anything from Ebay or anywhere else. There have been fake Xpoles around, and there are also a lot of poles that advertise themselves as being safe for inversions, or used by professionals, which is simply not true.
If you have any studios nearby, I would also suggest you take a taster session with them, or even their first set of lessons, if you can afford it! It can be very helpful having someone right there, in class, to spot you and that you can ask questions of.
Otherwise, the people on this website are very helpful. Videos, posts and blogs all help us get to know each other and create a community. I've asked some pretty stupid questions around here, and all I've gotten is help!
I still can't do the splits, after 5 years of dancing 😉 I'm working on it, though!
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I'm really enjoying this topic 🙂 You guys have some really good arguments and some very interesting points to make.
Mine may not be so insightful, but… watching that video, I actually had a hard time watching or finding the pole dancers, let alone figuring out what the heck they were doing! Some really awesome, advanced moves that are basically lost in the visual effects and the focus on Rhianna herself. I also found myself totally confused… why would she have fingernails on the outsides of her gloves? What the heck kind of top is that to wear, especially with those awful cut-off jean shorts? Why does she have a giant throne in a big, watery room? Why is that sort of booty popping considered "sexy"? It just looks violent! If I was a guy, I would fear for my manhood, thinking a girl would do that.
Soo… yeah, I honestly don't think that our "reputation" will be tarnished by this one. I agree with Lilyxxx! Where would pole dancing be without strippers? They invented it! That's like saying "Do you think Burlesque does bad things to the strippers reputation?" Burlesque created strippers, who then got on a pole and made pole dance, and now we're doing it! And we love it! Thanks, strippers! You're awesome!
That's… basically how I see that, lol
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Hey Cherished
Well, in my experience, the idea of achieving something like the splits can take years. Many of our most highly prized dancers were either exposed to dancing, and thus keeping their flexibility high, from a young age, or they had to work on it for, well, years, like Alethia Austin.
Six weeks seems like a very short time, and a lot of stress on the muscles being stretched.
I suppose it may also be a personal bias, but I found the website to be very poorly written. When I see something that lacks proper grammar, spelling, and/or punctuation, I suppose I don't consider that website to be particularly professional. I wonder if they are just some person talking to the internet from their basement. I would hope that, if they did have professional training, they would seek to convey themselves in that way.
Otherwise… I read something on that website that basically stated "You get the last inch or so through pain." By pushing past the pain and down that last inch or so, you risk doing extreme amounts of damage, the way I damaged my hamstrings, for example, during that yoga class.
I fully admire and support anyone who wants to take on the challenge of this website, and I did my very best to give it a proper look.
But I cannot condone any kind of flexibility, or strength training for that matter, that would advocate pain. Pain is the ultimate warning of your body. Pain can lead to incredible injury. Pain is your body's way of saying STOP NOW.
I endure certain pain with the understanding that I will recover- such as the pain of piercings, or the pain of my pole gripping my skin between my thighs. But, at a certain point, I know to stop. At a certain point, I will cause myself injury. When it comes to muscles, tendons, ligaments (do you know what the difference feels like?) pain is just not an option I can agree with.
And thank you for asking 🙂
…Sorry for the rant
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Sounds like your lats are sore! Those crazy things!
From what I've seen, placing a certain amount of pull on one of your arms, and allowing your body to stretch from that (though not curve) should give you a bit of a lat stretch. It's a difficult area of the body to access for stretching, but I know it can be done.
I also tend to wrap both hands around my pole at head height, and pull back through my hips, so that I'm leaning away from the pole. It seems to work for me for a back stretch!
Just between the shoulders (also lats, just another place) you can pull your arm, shoulder in neutral position, across your body. If you get it right (I do about 50% of the time) you'll feel it right where you want it!
I hope you feel better soon!
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I think the explanation was that you are tearing the muscles too much, and they would heal in an uneven way. There weren't really any studies cited, though, and I really did wonder about that.
From what I understand about body mechanics and biology (which isn't much, mind you) I thought it was a strange thing, too. So… yeah, I think I'm just not going to worry about it! Haha
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Suezann- That's an amazing idea, I always seem to forget about the "doing the reverse" for exercises like that!
I'm curious… I heard about this from my Fitness trainer class (which I didn't take the final exam for, lol!), that doing the reverse of an exercise like that will result in "lumpy" muscles. Could this just be because of an extreme?
I'm definitely trying to do that with my Pole ups, too! I'm not terribly good at them (as in, yeah, feet not leaving the ground), and they would also really help me with rock climbing, too!
KoiDragon- That is actually a really interesting suggestion, doing more of a… reverse push up. I'll have to try that, too!
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Mainly, you need to work on the areas of the body that go into things like splits- hamstrings, hip flexors, and… the ones in the middle I don't know the names of 😉
You can always look up stretches on Youtube or general Google, and Veena has lots of good ones here on the website, if you have her Lessons!
I… don't feel charitable toward the 6 weeks to splits plan, as I feel that it is dangerous.
The main thing to keep in mind with the splits is this: It may be uncomfortable, but it should NEVER be painful. I can't hammer on this enough! You should feel a slightly uncomfortable pulling sensation, but never, ever should you feel pain. If you do, ease off, or stop entirely.
Stretching is one of those things, much like dancing or strength training, that you eventually get very good at listening to. I was not very good at finding that sweet spot between discomfort and pain for a while, but now it seems to me like that sweet spot is more like a highway!
Take it slow, and you'll get it 🙂 People can always become stronger, healthier, stretchier. Doesn't matter what age they are at!
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In hindsight… I suppose I could work on the static hold, or the plank position, for now? Will that help those muscles as well?
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I've had roommates most of the time I've been poling! Generally they don't seem to notice, mind, or care- unless they want to have fun, too! Now that I have a pole my current roommate can grip, he's been pretty happy to set it to spin mode and just to a bunch of combo spins and pull ups (that he just seems to get, the jerk!)
If you're a morning person who likes to work out early, then go for it! If not, just ease into it 🙂 Usually people are engrossed in their own thing, and will get used to you working out, and no longer notice 🙂 It's also nice because, eventually, you can be like "Look at me!!" and they can share in your victories!
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6 weeks into starting my pole journey, I didn't know about that spin… or that inverting on a pole was even a thing people did.
I think that you need to take a step back and evaluate how you really feel about pole, and what you're looking to get out of it. I know that, for a while, all I wanted was to be "as good as someone else," whoever I chose at the time. Often, it was our "pole dance rockstars" like Felix Cane. Imagine how it felt to realize how difficult even a basic invert was, and to think "I'll never get there!" I went on like that for at least three years. I never did a basic invert, once.
But, now, I realize that what I really want (and the reason I idolized those people so much) was strength and flexibility. I want to FEEL strong, sexy, flexible, as well as see myself achieve things I never thought I could. I'm doing this for ME, and anyone else's journey is just that: THEIR journey.
I've done a basic invert, and have kept it up. My last workout, I did three good (for me) ones, which is more than I ever really do.
I keep struggling with my unhappy knees, my lack of ability to actually find and/or engage my lats (I'm getting there!), and my extremely frustrating fear of being upside down.
But I've made progress, and I'm proud of it. 🙂
TL;DR, what you expect and want from you is far more important than what other people expect from you. Their saying "I inverted in six weeks" has NOTHING to do with you! Keep going at your pace, work on the things YOU like, and perfect to the point that you feel comfortable. Move on when you feel you're ready. Dance for yourself. Comparison to others will only hold you back.
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Anamika- Of course we'll support you! That's the point!
I find that strength training and flexibility training is very similar, and it's best to take a couple of days rest each week. I love stretching, so it's sometimes hard for me to stop!
I will also say… ANY kind of stretching or flexibility training should NOT hurt! EVER!
If it hurts, ease off!
I've done more damage than good by stretching till it hurts- I actually decreased my flexibility that way.
You should feel some slight discomfort, a light pulling, and try to focus on relaxing. And then, as you feel the discomfort fading, you can push yourself a tiny bit further, until the discomfort returns. This is why we work on one single stretch for 60-90 seconds.
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I've actually done the same thing- take video of self, cringe, never record again.
However, I've been trying to figure out ways of getting myself to do it again. I'd like to increase my skill in dancing and movement, I'd like to be less self-conscious when in front of a video camera (or in front of other people) and I know that it's a fantastic way of learning more about what you're doing on the pole… especially when you don't have mirrors up, like me.
I think that it's sort of written into our general society that we judge ourselves very harshly. We see so many photoshopped "humans" in our media that we no longer understand that humans don't look like that! And yet, when we watch other people, we don't see what we see in ourselves- we don't see the cellulite, the wonky hand movement, that slight hesitation before getting into a basic invert.
I also think it's because we spend so much time with ourselves, and we internalize so much negativity, that we analyze ourselves in a bad way. Our judgment of other people seems to be magnified when it is turned upon our own selves, until all we can see is stuff that no one else even knows about!
Good experiment: If you've never pointed it out before, ask your boyfriend if he thinks you have cellulite. Mine didn't notice that, OR the stretch marks, which I think I have a lot of.
You could also try another good experiment! Go and look at yourself in the mirror before a shower, and see if you can find things you LIKE about what you look like! I've been doing this for more than a month, and really seeing improvement.
Eventually those pole videos are going to look like awesome. 🙂
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Super excited for you, Glitter!
On the game of lingerie, I would say… find something YOU feel sexy in! It makes a world of difference. If you absolutely love love LOVE that bra and panty set, then get it! Not so keen on that other babydoll? Don't. My main way of purchasing things like this is basically that criteria: If I'm not completely sold on it within the first five minutes, or after trying it on, I'm not getting it. But, if it does everything I want it to and I totally love it, even after trying it on…get it!
Most women think black is sexy, but I would say that it tends to look fairly harsh with most skin tones. Try things like tan, red, and purple. They are often flattering to most people (unless your skin is the same colour as the tan, then that's kinda weird). Please be sure that you are getting a bra that fits you correctly! I don't even trust people in the stores anymore. I've been told by a few ladies that I was something like a 38 DD… and those bras had me popping out EVERYWHERE! I'm actually a 30 I, so I'm not even sure where they got those numbers from. It was crazy.
Basics of bra fitting: Measure your waist, right where the band of your bra would fit, in inches. This is your band size. Then, measure the fullest part of your bust. The amount of inches different it is from your band size (in my case, 10 inches) will indicate your cup size. So, A B C D DD E F G H I – ten cup sizes, I am an I cup.
You'll want to make sure your band sits comfortably, without wandering upwards or cutting into you. The straps shouldn't fall down, nor should they drag your band upwards. Remember, the band is what gives you support and lift! The straps are just there for shape.
Umm, anyways. Didn't really think I'd get into the world of bra fitting! But it's important!! You want to feel awesome and sexy and fantastic! If bras don't make you feel that way, don't get them! I love loose babydolls and stuff like that 🙂
A trick I heard for covertly getting into your lingerie: Say "I'm going to go have a shower." And then go, turn the water on, and get into your lingerie. Then, turn off the shower and go surprise him! Both my boyfriend and my roommate agreed that they would like that.
And have fun!!
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Hi!
Yes, of course people would love to see your videos! You definitely don't need to be a trickster… I love seeing beautiful dancers do their thing 🙂
And Katana got it pretty dead on- more lessons, new Veena pole, lots of studios cropping up everywhere.
🙂
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That's pretty awesome 🙂 I want to be that sort of old lady one day! Just with massive "guns" so I can take people to the gun show all the time 😛
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Oookay… this is a bit of a loaded question, so my answer might be long… but bear with me 😉
First of all, I've been dancing off-and-on for about five years, and my basic invert SUCKS. I know that it sucks because my knees barely clear my hands, and it's still very tiring and difficult for me to do. I am improving, but… still, it sucks. To be fair, I only managed it recently, within the last six months or so.
So, your progress is your own. You cannot compare your journey to other people's, because you will have different challenges, and they will have different challenges. I see this often at the climbing gym, too- I could do two or three 5.7 routes before I could do the easy-peasy 5.6 route that we put children on. It took me ages to get it.
Next, you are going to have to seriously evaluate how you are judging yourself. My writing, for example, is something I CONSTANTLY judge very harshly, and I am always coming up short of my "goal." It's terrible, and I catch myself doing it all the time. This is an artists' plight, but you'll see it with almost everything these days.
Take a moment to acknowledge that you can do SOME spins, where three months ago, you could do none. Take the time to look at the progress that you've made, and allow yourself the congratulations you deserve. Three months is not a long time, if you think about it, and for you to be working on pikes and butterflies, is a big accomplishment.
I cannot stress strongly enough, though, that you will always find someone better than you, and if you keep comparing yourself to anyone else (even classmates- ANYONE), you'll judge yourself worse than you judge them.
You are doing awesome. If you feel good about YOUR workout, and YOUR dancing, that is all that needs to happen. Your journey is yours alone.
Besides, what if all those other people keep looking at you and think "Oh man, I LOVE the way she does that spin! I wish I looked like that!" https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
