Charley
Forum Replies Created
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Yes me too!!! so glad you posted! I thought I was weird! Whenever I just practice first 5 and tendu I am EXTREMELY sore!
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I have read a lot about chopper before invert and I can say with experience that’s not a great idea. I have a lot of students who come from silks for example and on silks there isn’t a basic invert as we know it. What mean is you chopper up and the first thing you are going to do is wrap around the apparatus and “tie in” as I call it. When I’ve trained aerialist most them day one can chopper lift over into a straddle but they have no idea where to there legs. The basic inverted leg position – I call it the upside down stand- is very necessary as a default muscle memory for advanced work and safety. Knowing how to place outside in front and inside in back is paramount to learning leg hangs, butterflies and reverse climbs. It’s also important to understand and be able to perform this for handstand work against the pole.
The trouble is that there is not a defined moment in time within the industry where we know its safe for someone to invert. Often times studios will introduce it too early in order to keep students excited. We also rarely explain the difference between a trick in progress – something that shouldn’t be performed in a routine and trick that’s ready to go. Then we see these scary looking inverts and assume they’ve been taught incorrectly or that they can’t invert when the reality is it is a move likely not suited for performing because its not 100%.
Moves need to be taught to individuals based on their level of ability. When I train aerialist we often start with climbing and inverting technique because that is their skill set. It doesn’t negate their need to learn basics by any means but by giving them something they relate to it holds their interest and challenges them. In fact a lot of aerialist tell me they feel pole is harder because they can’t use as much swinging and momentum as they on silks.
Finally there is a rediculous desire in the world on pole to “get upside down” because they think that’s the most impressive thing, it’s really not compared to the amount of gorgeous spins, transitions and upright poses that are generally simpler and conducive to gaining strength to invert.
As pointed out we use momentum in other things and do not question it. I’m of the opinion a reverse grab with the strong engagement is far more dangerous than an invert without proper engagement yet we still teach reverse grab without writing about its dangers. Instead of saying momentum is wrong we need to be teaching quick muscle engagement because that’s what’s happening. I’ve taught loads in handsprings in my day and 90% of the damage with that is getting up there and not knowing how to stabilize yourself. We can teach these principles the first day of class without ever leaving the ground!
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I personally don’t think food or alcohol belong in a pole studio. It’s just gross. Having dealt with cleaning up food after parties and the rank smell from old rotting meals – it’s just not the place for it. I know most studios allow some alcohol after the party but I just don’t see the point. There are establishments for that – a pole studio is a dance/fitness facility not an eatery. I don’t understand the desire to have a full on party at a pole studio. Someone has to clean that mess up and often those types of parties go over on their time and complain when you charge them.
Here’s how I handle it – I tell the prospective client that they should look into booking a shorter party for less money and consider finding a close restaurant or bar to continue with the evenings shenanigans. I explain that food and drinks create a mess and a distraction from learning and may take away from the experience. They are allowed “show up time” “class time” and “picture time” everything else should be done outside of the building. Most people are okay with this honestly. Those who insist on drinking aren’t probably going to be regular clients anyway. Even at home parties I’ve never had anyone get upset about the food and drink policy. I ask to keep food OFF and AWAY from the pole so as not create a mess or an unsafe situation for anyone.
As with anything there ARE exceptions but in general someone has give me some good reasons as to why they need to bring food into a dance studio and pay a clean up fee – I mean if I had a studio that’s how I would do it.
I have performed pole before after a glass of wine and certainly felt the fuzzy effects and this coming from a wino – a glass should do little for me. If I as an experienced pole dancer can “feel” it – I know that even a wee bit for new comers is enough to confuse.
I’ll also add parties I have done where drinking was allowed “after” the party meant that people were still drinking DURING the party. It’s very difficult for an instructor to baby sit 20 people and make sure none of them have had a drink. Then it generally ends up with yelling at people to stop climbing, stop trying to invert, stop flinging themselves, etc.
I’ve just never had a good experience with parties, poles and alcohol. The last time I drank and poles I tore open my incision, the pole fell over and I had a hell of a hangover the next day.
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Personally, I think it is best to invert on the side that is strongest in your outside leg hang. I generally advise figuring out which is your dominate leg. I used to do right handed vs left handed but I found that wasn’t necessarily correct for most people. I am right handed and I invert with the pole on my right arm pit with my left hand high – some right dominate people find this very difficult as their right leg likes to come up first.
I teach the basic invert on both sides for this reason. Your dominate side will the be side when in outside leg hang you feel most secure. Thus far this concept has been very good for my students. My right leg is more flexible than my left though I typically split left leg first – what happens is in outside leg hang – which is for most more difficult than inside leg hang – I am able to take advantage of being able to get my most flexible leg back behind me to help provide balance and further lock in my knee grip. What else is interesting to me is that as I advanced and was able to jade because I hand dominate from my left leg that meant that my most flexible leg cam forward in my jade providing a better line. I first attempted learning jade on “strong” leg and I couldn’t get it flat, when I went outside leg hang into jade it was much easier.
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Most people will use momentum their first few times without even thinking about it. I remember my first silks lesson and I could dead lift an inverted straddle like nobody’s business and I remember being a few feet off the ground and using a bit of a swing into the invert out of fear. I know students who can dead lift shoulder mounts but when they on stage the nervousness kicks in and they use momentum to get up. I don’t think it is a bad thing so long as they are using proper shoulder engagement. Using momentum in an invert can be gorgeous. I’ve seen many a professional dancer “run” at the pole and lift effortlessly into choppers.
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The entertainment industry is famous for non-competes. When I was a radio personality I was required to sign them all the time. They were generally unreasonable which meant that arguing for a better severance was an option. Usually they 6-12 months and 60 miles, we would usually get a severance to of about half – so 3-6 months pay. Using that as a model I would argue it’s unfair to require a non-compete without a severance package.
An NDA makes so much more sense.
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@Chemmie – I have worked for a chain pole dance studio and I loved it. We were provided with everything we needed and she rarely asked us for our energy – which was so nice in many ways. I don’t remember there ever being a rule about going to other studios but we certainly signed non-disclosures which seemed fair since it was her material. I prefer to teach my own stuff but teaching her stuff was really fun and honestly it was sooo much easier in a lot of ways.
@Sparrow – I know it’s hard when you establish a long term relationship with someone and they/you decide to experiment outside of that. I will say one advantage to staying out of studios as a teacher is that I never worry about “copying” anyone because I can honestly say I have no idea what they do – I don’t look at their sites or even their youtubes unless a video features a friend. Being a part of studios is exactly why I feel so conflicted. In the beginning we just shared and it was fun, then it became all of this conflict of interest, which I didn’t believe in until it happened to me. I love how we preach community until we begin making money off pole. UGH. I am right there with you, sister.
@lilbit – if more people realized what you do we wouldn’t have the “cattiness” and “stealing.” I love it when any business tries to get an IC to sign a non-compete – hahahahaha! I’ve been an IC in MANY fields and I always liken being an IC to being a “rogue” lol! In the real world IC stuff I’ve done they’ve only made us sign non-disclosure specific to discussing the work/equipment or business secrets we may know. AND – I’m sorry you had IRS trouble. I would only do paid employees too.
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Hahahaha!!!!!!!! It’s so very true, chemmie!!!!!!
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You can jamilla/cradle mount into it too.
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I think it’s interesting as students most are given a safe place to learn and grow however once you become an instructor you often become “property” without a safe place to learn and grow.
This is a multi layered subject. I would say having personally put way too much out there only have it taken for granted and my finger prints dusted off that I definitely have a wall up when it comes to teaching other instructors. One one hand once creativity is put out there it’s no longer “yours” but public domain. If you video your special tricks or choreography and put it out there for the world to see, don’t expect credit for your inspiration. That said we are ALL inspired by what we see and often may replicate something we’ve long forgotten who did it or I inspired us.
Every class an instructor takes will feed their curriculum in one way or another which is what tears my opinions to shreds because on one hand why should I give bits and pieces for instructor group class pay? On the other hand it’s not like students don’t try to go teach their friends – which I am adamantly against ( I know that makes me sound like a “B” but unless you’re qualified to teach please don’t hurt your friends, take my material YOU paid for and give it away for FREE – and I’m not talking about polers sharing amongst themselves, I’m talking about students who think its cool to let non poler friends learn TRICKS – not simple walks and steps and encourage them to go to a class or here and learn safely.)
On the other side the tricks are really BIG now, I refuse to self teach some of these things which means I will need a spotter and a class setting. Just because I teach doesn’t mean I know it all, I never had the student experience and very much feel like I missed out. I want the community aspect, I want the encouragement that you don’t get learning on your own or teaching and I want to turn my brain off and just move. I cannot promise that I won’t take away something special and revise and teach it. I personally rarely struggle with ideas for classes but I can’t promise I won’t take a move and add it into something, that’s the awesome part of being a student is having a clear mind to create with what you learn. I also make very little so it’s not like I could pay for a private even though I truly value another instructors time and the downside of privates is that they are typically trick based which is good if you can learn a new trick and want to but what if you just want a work out or to dance?
I also know many amazing instructors who aren’t “advanced” and would love to take upper level classes for themselves. This poses another argument for instructors being able to take classes elsewhere. Where do we go to work on ourselves? Chances are an intermediate level dancer who teaches is not going to start teaching flag mounts or whatever after one class! Lets be real! If she’s a good instructor she knows better. So that makes me wonder should instructors only be able to take trick based classes? Then how do we exercise our movement and transitions? Plus it’s not really possible to know who’s a teacher and who isn’t unless you know then personally or through social media sites. Some people don’t know they should say they teach, honestly. They aren’t being deceptive but naive.
Issues arise because of our egos. I will honestly admit that mine needs petting, it’s fragile and I tend to come from the “Emily Post” era where I believe in giving credit and thanks for each simple thing you gain from another because creativity and energy is to be appreciated. But seriously how much framing credit do I need for teaching, spotting or helping with a common community move or sequence? Again, lets be real. If I’ve created and taught something to even a single person and they’ve paid for that, isn’t that credit enough?
It’s all so complicated. I will end by saying these are my rambling thoughts, they are not directed at anyone or any of the above situations. Just this topic is one that shreds my head to pieces because I haven’t found an answer yet. If I owned a studio I *feel* like I wouldn’t want my instructors looking elsewhere for lessons, I wouldn’t want them sharing what they learn from me outside of class and I can’t give anyone a good reason for that outside of I sometimes need to pee all over my self proclaims “genius” and I certainly make sure that I’m treating others as I would want to be treated and respect other studios, their restraints and rules.
Finally, I very much want a community of sharing and togetherness and perhaps I’ve personally been Hurt too much or not stroked enough or felt looked down upon whether for real or imagination that as I go further into my journey I find myself closing my world off. I jokingly say I fire “clients” because I have no desire for drama or unappreciative students. I sometimes wish I could take classes and I will sometimes pop into a studio but only one that I trust, respect and call friend. Pole is pretty catty even when we are on our best behaviour “Emily Post” style. I’ve learned you can’t be nice enough to escape rumors and people talking smack about you. No matter how nice I’ve been I still hear rumblings about me, I still hear that people hate me and I’ve been beyond giving and nice, so anyway – ugh conflicts if interest. I see both sides…wish there was an easy answer.
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Poles are sold! Thanks everyone for being so quick! 🙂
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🙁 that makes me sad.
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I like any of the bad kitty bottoms. The fold overs fit really nice actually. I feel like they run a little big, I have small and think I should have gotten extra smalls. They do give you enough exposure with a modest look, the Brazil’s are awesome! Very sexy!
I also wealth Mika “Betty” short too and I love them.
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Just an update everybody! X-Pole is giving us a NEON SIGN to giveaway for the X-Pole Studio Challenge Relay Race! Bad Kitty is also sponsoring a DIY Fashion Competition! Workshops are posted up too!
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Well the lessons here are great because you get both static an spin and Veena starts with the strength training which makes the static learning much easier.
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Wow! I am kind of stunned. I just looked at your profile and you look gorgeous! Maybe they were jealous? The SV lessons offer both so maybe this is your studio for awhile! And we love you in booty shorts here!
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I think you should learn with Veena and perhaps do the studio if you can afford both. Here’s why, static is harder to learn in many ways and can be more strenuous on your body in the beginning as Veena pointed however Veena starts with strength training on static not spins, dancing around a static pole even with transitions is much different than spin pole. In my limited experience with those who learned spin first, they often have a difficult time translating to static and I think both are important skills to have. I feel beginners greatly benefit from working with both types of poles. Those who are strong like yourself typically do well with spin because you can lift and hold and conversely those who like myself when I started lack strength can glide around a static doing grounded spins. Grounded spins are more difficult on spin mode because of the nature of the speed of it. Spinning pole can be pretty hard if you aren’t super strong and even doing a step around is challenging. I think spin pole can be advantageous in learning static spins like front hook because you can engage your shoulders and learn to lift before going into the spin vs on static when you have to learn to walk, hook inside and lift all simultaneously. Both have their place in our journeys. I like to have students work with both because like I said doing a step around to pirouette with a spin pole requires more body control than on static, it really helps you learn control your simple landings but doing gorgeous lifted floating spins on static are harder and it’s difficult to purée gage your body on static. There so much advantage to learning static, you learn how to work with your body in a quicker fashion because its generally difficult to get a floaty spin on static if you are trying to engage your shoulda before you go into it, you have to learn to engage that second before and gaining momentum is so different. For me as a general rule, I like to do more advanced work on a static pole things like climbing are very challenging and as you move up the pole your battling slowing down and speeding up. I prefer to teach things like that on static first. Does this even make sense?
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I love ALL of these ideas keep them coming! I used to wear high heeled boots often without socks because I prefer anything with a heel to be kinda tight so my socks wouldn’t fit comfortably in the boot and anyway I knew Rob and I were meant to be when he asked to me to start washing my feet as soon as the boots came off…surprised he didn’t make me keep them outside!!!
I have such an odor problem and it’s embarrassing but I just started owning it. If someone stinks, it’s safe to say it’s me. It’s just that I sweat constantly! I like to warm too so that doesn’t help. I had to throw a leather coat once because my boss thought I wasn’t showering them I realized my leather was just soaked with that BO smell from wearing it all the time because I like to be warm – it smelled like bad chicken soup and baby powder. I was so annoyed because I am extremely HYGENIC – I’m just a stinky, cold, sweater – lol!
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I suffer from foot odor pretty badly. My uggs are the biggest culprit and while I am always in clean socks when I take them off in class then put them back on something makes them stink so bad!!! I can attest to baking soda and a mix of baby powder works really well. I’m just a stinky person in general to be honest. I have to apply deodorant several times a day. It’s pretty important to be self aware and carry the products you need. Sorry if that was TMI.
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My regular doctor actually asked for cards and info about it. She is telling people who want/need a more active lifestyle to pole. One of the student doctors wants to take classes too after I made her watch vids on my phone hahaha. I need SV business cards, I swear, because I tell everyone to come here because you can see all types of pole. I even heard a story about my dr doing a chair class and how hard the stripping aspect was! It’s not easy to strip and still look sexy. So it’s not like stripping in of itself is easy. I think people don’t understand how hard it is to she’d clothing and remain sexy and in movement, it’s tough!
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I will be Palace, lol! I think a few Vixens are coming too, Nekia will likely perform. I can’t wait to see everybody!
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It’s April 11-13 just outside ofmDetroit. More details at http://www.poledancefest.com
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In general I will not use the “I’m not a stripper line” unless I am very uncomfortable. I was at the Drs. Office a couple of months ago seeking treatment for a cyst on my groin and I explained this thing is painfully getting worse because of pole and I was my wits end. I explained I teach and perform pole and that I am infact not a stripper the Dr. responded “so what if you were?” I loved her instantly. My surgeon on the other hand who happens to be male needed the clarification I felt like. I’m set up for removal on Wednesday and he wanted to book an OR room because he thought I’d be uncomfortable with him being close to my business. I realized in trying to clarify and make the point to my Dr that he somehow thought I was extremely conservative. As long as he knows he’s not seeing it at its best I’m cool, hahaha.
So yeah, I’ve learned it’s never necessary to clarify how I pole just clarify what I do on a pole. No one cares if I have clothes on or not.
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I can certainly talk to Summer and arrange that 🙂
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Dirty Girl samples will be available at Pole Fest!!!! 😀
