WHERE DID THE SEXY GO????

Cara Christina started this discussion · 8/15/2013

I wanted to get people on this site's opinion about where all the sexy has gone in pole. Two things come to mind. First, I'm sure we've all seen the recent wall-street journal article about pole in the olympics. If you haven't here it is (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323971204578630070114556206.html?KEYWORDS=pole+sport#articleTabs%3Darticle). I've seen this article touted on many blogs and sites as the most wonderful thing. I'm probably going to pole-dancer-hell for saying this but I find this article kind of depressing. While I want pole to be recognized for the skill, strength, and flexibility that it takes to do it well it's not gymnastics and was never meant to be. There is already gymnastics in the olympics. Not sure why we need more with just a different apparatus. Making it a vertical bar instead of a horizontal bar doesn't make it an entirely new sport. If people what to execute perfect moves with names like FM 10 or whatever then they should GO DO FUCKING GYMNASTICS. Pole is fun because of the sensuality, fun, beauty, accessibility to regular people, etc. Ever see someone go into the gymnastics gym and "freestyle" on the beam? No? Point made! Second thing: I recently competed in a national competition and, before I go any further, I'd like to say that this competition is one I really respect in terms of the organizers' efforts to put on a fair and quality event. That being said, almost all of the performances were so asexual that that they wouldn't know a booty bounce if it hit them in the face! There were many wonderful, moving, beautiful, athletic performances, all of which I respect very much. But there was almost no sexy! I wore platform shoes but I didn't see that anyone else did. I can't remember seeing many body rolls, hot floorwork, etc. Except my own, I mean. Where did the sexy go???? I'm kind of depressed.

56 replies

chemgoddess1 · 8/15/2013
This is why you have to research the competition that you are entering. So many people enter any competition just to get their name "known" without really researching what kind of image that competition is trying to express. There are plenty comps out there for each and every style.
Lina Spiralyne · 8/15/2013
Came to think of a question that may seem unrelated to topic but may not be....for example in the US (where many on this site live), is the interest for pole dancing still increasing? I think many Veeners are studio owners and should be able to know the trend. Sorry if this appears to be off topic.
Kira · 8/15/2013
To be honest I see more pro-sexy posts more than pro-sports. The thing is that (over here anyway) most the competitions do not allow heels in their competitions due to health & safety or insurance purposes, and speaking from experience - even though I flipping love to wear heels when performing - X-stages are the WORST to dance on in heels so I'd rather go bare foot. I agree that the push on tricks over sexy is quite vigourous and a lot of the ladies that compete want to display to an audience a feeling of 'hey look at me, I have 3 kids and I can iron X and then rainbow marchenko' rather than 'I have 3 kids and I can still twerk like there's no tomorrow. Be jealous ladies!'. I can only guess that they either like the fitness side because they get a bigger buzz out of teaching their bodies to contort in ways they never thought possible and perceive bodyrolls to be 'too easy' or that they are embarassed with embracing their femininity. But that's what competitions are - a display of athletic strength and flexibility. Yeah there's comps that push the sexy and heels but polers that love the sexy style aren't as competitive, they just want to dance in their front room, in private. That's why it seems that the style isn't as prominent but it is! I wouldn't stress - just keep dancing the way you want to :) P.s The whole 'renaming' of the moves to SM and FM etc. would purely be for ease of judging I imagine, I really don't imagine they would want to force people to rename moves like spatchcock to FM10?! The one thing that made me chuckle in the article was that 1 contestant lost points because a feather fell off her headress (how's that her fault? not using enough glue?) and that they were selling 'Strong is Sexy' t-shirts at the event when sexy is what they totally do not want pole to be at that particular competition :P
Cara Christina · 8/15/2013
Chemgoddess: I'm not faulting the competition. I actually thoroughly research all competitions before I do them. This one, I've competed and judged before so I'm pretty familiar with it. This is the first time I've seen it be so asexual and it makes me wonder why. Raven: You are so right about stages, etc with shoes. There are some times shoes are baaad! I love tricks in pole but I don't see why it has to be one or the other. In this last comp, I did an iron x but I did it in shoes (I have two kids if that's relevant!). And then bounced in the splits, lol! I don't want people to think I'm knocking the athletic or other parts of pole because I think they are awesome and I do them myself sometimes. I just /also/ enjoy the sexy side and I feel like they are becoming mutually exclusive which they don't have to be. and that makes me kinda bummed.
chemgoddess1 · 8/15/2013
There is a really good thread that webby started looking for feelings on that article. There are so many reasons that pole is losing its sexy. Also many people are just uncomfortable doing sexy but are very comfortable busting out a gymnastics style routine. As the sport has grown each country has kind of taken on its own "style". Seeing as the US is so backwards when it comes to women's sexuality it is not surprising that we are losing sexy.
chemgoddess1 · 8/15/2013
BTW, here is that thread: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/Wall_Street_Journal_addresses_pole_dance_20130812124327
Kira · 8/15/2013
Chem: really? I thought US polers were embracing the sexy more and more! From the few polers I've spoken to most times they dismiss the sexy style because in their mind they can never be as sexy as the Alethea's or Eva Bembo's of the pole world and aren't willing to try and experiment. They think you either have it or not... When I started I was totally oblivious there were different styles of pole. Then I trained at a different studio where it was all heels and performance over the tricks and I was so behind... I decided to practice on my flow, trying to be as sexy as the other polers there. There were times I looked back on practice videos where I cringed and thought what am I doing, I'm not meant to be sexy I just look really stupid. It was the most difficult part of pole for me to be honest because I had to look at myself during every floor movement and body roll and embrace the fact I have a womans body, I have curves and I CAN be sexy. To some it is much easier to just learn tricks and not 'embarass' themselves looking in a mirror while they are trying to body roll against the floor and to an extent I can understand!
Koidragon · 8/15/2013
I am going to throw something in - alas, this is what happens as many 'arts' move towards the mainstream. I am going to give the example of martial arts (both because I know about it, and also because what else do you come onto a pole dancing forum for... to talk about unrelated things 😉) Bruce Lee (bless his fabulous cotton socks) brought martial arts to the mainstream. From there we got competitions - from Olympic wrestling and taekwondo through to things like UFC. Now, what has now been an ongoing discussion/issue in the MA community is that with all this competition and spotlight, the philosophy has gone - people don't train the deeper side of martial arts anymore. However, it is still there - just almost underground. My view is that this is a similar thing that will happen to pole dancing, and it may in fact be inevitable. The philosophy side of MA is introspective and 'self' oriented - it is also a somewhat subjective thing, and can be difficult to say 'who is more philosophically strong in MA than someone else' - as it is with pole. In pole, as weall know, there is dance and sexiness and so much that is left to interpretation which cannot truly be judged on - so I think this aspect will seem to decline. In fact though, I think it will just seem to do so as the percentage of people into pole and pole based arts increases. I think that, like MA, the personal, soul filling side of pole will just become something that those who use pole as something more than just fitness and gymnastics will continue to express, and they may or may not dabble in the competitions. And hopefully there will continue to be forums and showcases to display these aspects. It may be that over time, there will be competitions and then, separately, entire shows devoted to performance and expression, as there is with dance.
ginger78 · 8/15/2013
You must have missed the "Bringing Sexy Back!" On Facebook. But the sexy never left they just pushed it away to main stream poling. If poling is going to the Olympics it's going to become more trick based and less dance based. I miss beautiful flowing transitions
tacha666 · 8/16/2013
Chem, the German championships are so asexual it's really boring. (I think even squatting in front of the pole means loosing points) In a few years when I hopefully run a well going studio I'll set up a comp like Michelle Shimmy (?) is planning where heels are mandatory and you need to take off at least one clothing item.
bugsy monroe · 8/16/2013
Pole will never be divorced from sexy - it was forged in the fire of the strip club, after all! The current hunger for pole to be perceived as 'sport' springs naturally from the average lay-person's ignorance of what pole dance training constitutes. I think that as the general public becomes more aware of what pole dance is and the diversity of styles practiced, competition organisers and performers will relax about being perceived as doing anything even vaguely like stripping. I love sexy pole dance - it's what I started learning for - though practice many different styles overall. When telling someone who does not know me that I 'teach pole dance', I do not qualify or explain this in any way, beyond whatever they choose to enquire. Last week, my boss at my "other" job (independent cinema) came by while I was showing a colleague Alessandra's winning routine from World Pole Sports, and asked what we were watching. His first statement was "Pole Sport??! Audience must be full of men!" No, about 80% female, I explained. Then he saw the sorts of moves she was performing: "Oh my god...". Basically, I'm glad that the athletic potential is being explored and promoted, if only to bust a few preconceptions. Despite Alethea's obvious, awesome power, I'd not have felt so comfortable with my boss using her style as his benchmark for the sort of thing I do. As long as there are strip clubs, as long as sex sells, as long as women revel in their femininity (and men in their masculinity), pole will ALWAYS have sexy practitioners, this is absolutely guaranteed!
tacha666 · 8/16/2013
On that point you are propably right, but I hope it won't come as far as that the different styles will be completely be seperated from each other and the more sexy style dancers are considered to be dirty. I think that would definately be a step in the wrong direction!
SpyralBound · 8/16/2013
"Pole is fun because of the sensuality, fun, beauty, accessibility to regular people, etc." My counterargument to this is: "Fun" is not the main point of the Olympics. Athletic prowess and show-off-icism are. Think of a lot of the more mainstream sports in the Olympics, like basketball. Judging basketball at a higher, more rigorous level at the Olympics does not take ANYTHING away from pick-up games in local neighborhoods. Swimming can be fun, but that's not the point of swimming relays, diving or sync. The point is precision. Excellence. Being the absolute best at what you do. Earning a medal with internationally recognized value, not a pat on the head for a job well done. And the problem with adding more artistic, interpretive "dance" to a competitive performance is that judging that is always going to be subjective. Suddenly there are all these OTHER things to judge - costume, creativity, expression, flow, for example - and those aren't strictly measurable in the way that the "perfect" Spatchcock is. It makes sense to set judgment criteria on what CAN be measured and observed with at least some degree of objectivity. I do understand why pole dancers feel threatened by the super-strict and athletically focused rules proposed by some judging organizations. But really, ladies, RELAX. What they decide to evaluate at the Olympics or at high-level competitions does NOT have to take anything away from what you do. I'm sure Michael Phelps likes to splash around in the pool for fun when he's not training, I'm sure pro volleyballers will have a friendly scrimmage at a beach barbecue. And I don't see why gymnasts wouldn't freestyle. Performing to rigorous standards for competitions doesn't have to cost them anything or be a killjoy. There are other venues and stages if you want to be theatrical, or sexy, or funny, or crazy, or experimental, or whatever. My feeling personally is that if you want to show off how fantastic your tricks, body and flexibility are, choose competitions. If you want to dance freely in front of an audience, choose showcases, or competitions that aren't athletically focused. We have variety. We have options. There's MORE than enough room for both Strong and Sexy in the pole community, this is not a zero-sum game where one side wins and the other loses. They can exist side by side without devaluing each other. Be a dancer, be an athlete, be both, be neither, be whatever kind of pole person you want to be. It all has value if it means something to YOU - other people's opinions (judges or just fellow polesters) be damned.
chemgoddess1 · 8/16/2013
OMG, so I had to come back to this after watching Crystal Belcher's performance from the US NPC. What she did on stage with a pole I have only seen a few others do. To me it seems like the US is taking on lyrical dance and tricking out as the 2 distinct styles and we are keeping booty popping and body rolls as part of the hidden, fun, release,escape that pole provides. I would think that if we started putting a ranking on booty popping or body rolls it would stop being fun.
CapFeb · 8/16/2013
I agree, Chem. But then again, I hate booting popping and don't see a place for it. Ever. Body rolls are fine, but God do I hate the booty pop. Also; I watched Crystal's performance because of your post about it. I almost cried.
Athena30 · 8/16/2013
Natasha Wang posted this article on her fb https://www.unitedpoleartists.com/news/2013/08/featured-blog-inspired-vs-discouraged/. It's a featured blog by Sparrowhawk Isis about how shes seeing pole morph into a competition of pole power moves and fonjis AKA a gymnastics showcase and less about dance and expression which is what she originally fell in love with.
Koidragon · 8/16/2013
Oh wow. WOW. I also just watched Chrystal Belcher's performance at Chem's mention... I have to say, I think there are very many definitions and interpretations of the word sexy. And that. was. sexy.
Cara Christina · 8/16/2013
Ok, ok, guys. Sorry to get everyone so riled up. Perhaps I was a little strong in my language about it. I want to be clear that I appreciate all types of pole dance from lyrical to strong to tricky to whatever! And I've done routines of different styles too! I do feel strongly that it shouldn't be an olympic sport but that wasn't my main point. I was simply concerned and questions because (bringing sexy back nonwithstanding) it seems like I see less and less of the sexy style and I don't want us to lose it!
SpyralBound · 8/16/2013
I think sometimes in a small community like ours, it can seem all of a sudden like everything is pushing one way, or everyone is doing one thing, all at once, and that can make people panic. I remember feeling so left out and inadequate when it felt like EVERYONE was doing silks, or hooping, or lyra, or acroyoga, in addition to pole, and I felt like the last person left who was just a poledancer and nothing more. (Yes, I was jealous.) That feeling passed when those activities moved out of the collective spotlight. And then see what happens when someone figures out a "new" trick. Just this year I've seen Butt Superman (or sidesaddle superman as I call it), Titanic, Icarus, Phoenix and Fonji become these really popular moves, and those are just the ones I know the name of off the top of my head. For a while it was Iron X. One person gets it right and a whole crowd will follow. And that's great! But it can also feel like OMG, Everyone's doing Titanic, should I be trying that too/I'm sad I can't do that yet/etc. So right now pole sports are in the news and getting a lot of attention, and it feels like THAT is the direction the whole movement is going... but will we feel the same in a month? Two months? Probably not, the currents will change and we'll become distracted by some other new shiny thing. :) (I say that endearingly and playfully, not mockingly.)
chemgoddess1 · 8/16/2013
BTW, Cara, there is a group on facebook called stripperstyle. It is full of videos and people who still keep the sexy. Oh, also, I did cry at Crystal's performance. I cannot even express the emotions that piece brought out in me, and that was sitting in the comfort of my own home. I would have been a wreck if I saw that in person. A WRECK!
Alex UPA · 8/16/2013
This is why United Pole Artists created Bringing Sexy Back! A celebration of all thing sexy in the pole dance community/industry. We felt like this two years ago which is why we started the BSB event. Did you see the latest blog entry by Annemarie Davies? The link is here: http://unitedpoleartists.blogspot.com/2013/06/bringing-sexy-back-2013-what-does-it.html
Marion Shaffer · 8/16/2013
My pole baby competed as a Professional in this same competition in Las Vegas. I traveled 2000 miles with my boyfriend squealing with excitement because he was going to see his first pole competition. I wanted to share the thrill a pole competition brings with someone that I care about... We watched the competitors and then witnessed Sergia & her clown routine. She was an awesome trickster and I was so impressed by her accuracy and strength. I looked at him and realized he wasn't even engaged in what was happening on stage, and then I realized that we were not watching what had gotten me hooked so many years ago, we were watching a clown doing gymnastics on a stick and dancing around in a 2 piece bathing suit. Contemporary competitive pole dance has completely lost it's edgyness. It's a shame both for the competitors and for the spectators... I walked out of the Tropicana and went to enjoy my favorite kind of pole dancing at the http://www.sapphirelasvegas.com/ &; our visit to LV.
Cara Christina · 8/16/2013
Marion, that's very well said! We ended up at the Spearmint Rhino!
chemgoddess1 · 8/16/2013
I love the event that Charley puts on in Michigan every year. While this year it did have a competition attached to it, the main attraction is the showcase. There were 2 showcases this year because of the amount of people who signed up to perform. You had everything from people who had just started pole to those that have competed and are well known. They even had 2 vagina monster races that day. I think I cried and laughed and screamed my heart out during those performances. I am not a huge competition person. While I appreciate the hard work that all of the ladies put into their routines it is something entirely different to watch someone get up there and just ooze sexiness. One of my girls from Cleveland who does not do a lot of pole tricks got up there in a negligee and oozed and grinded and screamed sexy. I will never forget Layla's routine for as long as I live. And how can anyone forget the lap dance that Dayanara got! I hope that the event lives on for years to come as it is just SO MUCH FUN. This is the reason that I back showcases and I can tell you that at events like this there is a TON of sexy going on! The after parties are even more off the hook. Nothing like a bunch of people who do not understand what is and is not "appropriate social behavior" out in a bar doing body shots and hand stands and booty popping and dirty dancing....oh my.
Dancing Paws · 8/16/2013
Every art form has variations. For example, there are many types if bellydance out there. Some will rise in popularity while the older styles are not as common, then you'll see a rise in the old style, etc. pole is new and evolving. There is no 1 style. Unfortunately, here in the US, sexuality is frowned upon, unlike Europe, where nudity and sex are more prominent in society. Until we break that barrier, the sexy side of pole won't be widely accepted as art. That is why the USPDF and PFA push so hard to separate it from pole. It won't go away, but right now it's being put on the down low in order to get our sport accepted in the mainstream. Overall, it would be great if we didn't have to hide our pole side from society. I pine for the day where I don't have to worry about photos of me being on the net, for fear of losing employment, etc. Personally I love all aspects of pole. My intrigue was piqued based on both aspects! The sexy and strength both got me to try it. Give it time. This will pass. Salsa used to be considered trashy and now look at it!

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