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Unethical competitions
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i have a few suggestions to add on to the list of ethical practices. does anyone else have ideas?
-posting criteria/judging information and guidelines for submission videos in advance, with clear deadlines (listed by time zone, if applicable), and refusal of any submissions or submission fees after the deadline has passed
-time before the competition for a complete run through on the rigging/apparatus to be used for the actual competition, especially if last minute changes are made
-medical staff and supplies on site in case of an emergency
-adequate warm up time continuous (immediately before) to when a competitor is actually expected to go on stage
-a contract for each competitor that allows for them to openly discuss positive and negative aspects of the competition
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sorry, that link two posts up didn't go through right… it's here
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Amy…none of that is new – it was all in place for Midwest last year.
However I will say that full rehearsals is not always possible when a venue charges thousands of dollars and charges by the hour. To allow a full run through for all competitors may not be within everyone's budget. Also that isn't exactly related to ethics – it's just how it's organized.
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To everyone…I'd also like to point out again that the Pole Dance Community has a code of conduct already in place. It's the second link down on this page:
http://www.poledancecommunity.com/join-us/codes-of-conduct
Why re-create the wheel when it's already been addressed. The question is how to encourage organizers to use it? Which is what the group Amy alluded to is going to be working on.
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Same situation here in canada
some people are tryin to control everything, create associations, blablabla blablabla
like this situation when the miss pole canada couldnt be there physically to pass the crown, and they woudlnt give it to the first runner up
then the first runner up won all the prizes…even best costume, when in fact other participants got wayyy better costume,,,,it s all biaised
It pisses me off cause when I speak out about those situations, i know others think the same but wont say a word, and then I am the bad one, all the time
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@Amy – these are great points, I definitely think you are the person to make it happen! I look forward to seeing the development of the ethics committee, please keep us posted on your work.
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@MissLara…I'm actually on that committee…I will definitely fill everyone in and if anyone has any suggestions feel free to post them here or message me so that I can take it to the group when we meet next month!
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@MissLara…I'm actually on that committee…I will definitely fill everyone in and if anyone has any suggestions feel free to post them here or message me so that I can take it to the group when we meet next month!
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This is an interesting discussion. Obviously it's important to a lot of people or it wouldn't have received such a strong reaction. It shouldn't polarize the community so much though.
I see both sides. I see the side of those that feel USPDF has been elusive in aspects. Why should it be forbidden to offer feedback or ask questions? Especially in cases where details have been hazy. I also see the side of the organization which has been one of the leading names in competitive pole dance for a reason. They offer women across the country an outlet to compete professionally and have given noticeable recognition to pole dancing. And as we have heard, it is not easy to create and run a competition. Do I think they are a perfectly run organization? No. Do I think there is some secretive reason behind the reason why? No. Do I think they should be open to feedback or questions as they are developing? Yes.
Those on both sides need to take a step back and realize we are not so different in the outcomes we seek. I'm sure everyone in here can agree they would welcome a safe and fair competition that would promote pole dancing in a positive way. That "ideal" competition will take work and some tweaking. We are a brand new industry. But let's not assume the other side is on a witch hunt to take us down or a conniving powerhouse. What we need is an open dialogue. I'm sure once either side opens up in a non-defensive way they will see the other side more receptive to discussion.
Maybe USPDF did not handle this competition or those past flawlessly. For example the deadline issue could have been more clearly expressed and when there was confusion should have been explained. This is still a hazy component in which an explanation is reasonable to ask for. I'm sure that issue won't happen next year though. I don't believe there were ill intentions behind the misinformation though. I really don't. And I think however messy it was in choosing the line-up, there will be some amazing dancers in this year's competition.
I hope USPDF remains receptive to constructive feedback for improving competitions and communication with the public in the future. I also hope those bringing up those questions remain respectful and empathetic.
Finally I will say this. We don't need to all agree to be peaceful. Opposite views are great! We need respect though. This respect has been broken on both sides here. Before we speak we should ALL be mindful of the power our words hold. Let's just try that way and see what happens. Then go from there.
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@empyrean– i am not trying to claim that i'm coming up with new ideas, or say that these ethical guidelines are not followed already by any one competition. i appreciate that you feel strongly about midwest, and your event, being strong ethically, but i'm hoping that we can discuss problems that we've seen in other events, and how to help fix them. i'm offering suggestions for people to comment on and give feedback on, and come up with additional suggestions as a group. i think it's great that PDC hs come up with guidelines of their own, but i like the idea of organically, as a group, coming up with our own suggestions and seeing how they match and/or contrast (independently) with what another organization, or other peple, have come up with. some of the items that i put in my list, or what ocuspocus put in theirs, aren't in the PDCs, and are things that other competitors have brought up as concerns to me based on their experiences in events here in the US.
@oliviaa, i'm sorry that you feel you ahve been attacked. i know how you feel. and it's hard to be sticking your neck out, and feel like you're being attacked for honesty. i think that in my experience with this USPDF issue, i've realized that while i had good intentions, sometimes, people read or interpret your messages in a way that you didn't necessarily intend or forsee and whether or not you have good intentions, you can still be hurtful and cause people to be defensive. but i think that if you see unethical behavior, you SHOULD speak up about it, if it is something that you cannot stand for. it's better to maintain your principles then to gloss over something that you think is important.
@irmingard, i think you're right in that people tend to get defensive and offensive before thinking about really trying to reach a middle ground. i think we're all human, and we've all made a mistake liek that in the past. frustration can play a big role in that too. i do want to say that regardless of what happend with USPDF and whatever decisions they've made, no one is questioning the quality and talent in the competition. i hope that is true for everyone. and i am glad you brought up the point that we might need to navigate through differing opinions before coming to a better understanding. i really agreed with the status update that you posted a cuople days back, about how we as women tend to shy away from confrontation and conflict when those are not necessarily negative things, and when sometimes they are necessary to reach an understanding or affect change. things need to be kept respectful and i think the reason why feelings were so hurt is because that line was really crossed. i haven't gotten any more requets to post anything anonymously, so at least on my end, hopefully that won't happen again!
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@ AMy…I'm certainly not accusing you of making any claims and I, as everyone else, certainly appreciates your dedication to making the competition world a better place!!! I'm just pointing out that the wheel may have been already created…or at least started…and we don't have to start from scratch. Hopefully organizations that have put this into the works will help get the ball rolling.
And by no means is MY competittion the only one that is ethical. There are many that have already proven themselves as being above board. Florida Pole Fitness Championships and Pacific Pole Championships just to name a couple. I hope I didn't come across as thinking mine was the only one!
I just want to turn this into a more positive outlook that many organizers already are using these same criteria and there really isn't anything new about it to THOSE competitions.
Your ideas to get everyone to contribute are awesome…in fact that is exactly what I also suggested since I'll be part of that committee you mentioned! We fully intend to use the suggestions from the community and to use the groundwork already laid by these reputable competitions and organizers.
The future looks bright for competitions – we are still growing and a lot of people want to learn from the past.
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sad to say but no matter what, there will always be someone insatisfied with the competitions!
someone who will think its biaised ect ect
its hard to find judges who dont know the competititors ect ect
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@empyrean, I think we are agreeing, I’m really not taking your comments personally.
@oliviaa, it’s true that people will disagree about who should have won. But i feel that is a small part of a competition when you are talking about ethics– we also need to think about protecting the competitors and making sure that competitions don’t take advantage of them. For example, making sure that they know the judging criteria and how each round will run and be scored. Not all competitions are good about informing them of that!
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If you look through the forum here you will see that this is NOT the first time these issues have been brought up. There has been great debate after quite a few of the large competitions and things that have happened.
Worlds: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/4754
General Competitions: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/4792
Online Voting: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/4542
IPDFA: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/4dc20488-1328-4782-a88f-463c0ac37250
APFC: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/4e1e016b-0984-437b-89af-5f280ac37250
These conversations have been going on for several years and some people are listening and some are not. I don't think any of us are trying to downplay any of the competitors, that is not what this conversation is about. This conversation is about finding a set of standards and as a community holding competiitions to those standards. PDC has done just that and I am not sure why organizations that clearly are pushing for Olympic approval are not abiding by a set standard. I cannot seem to find the information I am about to reference, but I believed that for admission of a sport that there needed to be a set standard by which the sport was judged and that standard needed to be recognized by a set number of countries. Empy, I know you are well versed in this subject. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Chem, yes I'm involved as I am Chair of the Technical Committee for Pole Sports Organization which is setting the first competition with criteria which will hopefully, eventually, end in the Olympics.
I did not see the original source from which our criteria was based as that was drawn up by KT Coates and Tim Trautman. KT Coates and I developed the criteria for rules and guidelines based on these documents (which were hundreds of pages long) and then distributed it among out committee members for finalizings and adapting it to pole.
Then we brought on people like Natalie Takanawa (head judge for the IPDFA) and Ania Przeplasko (head of the IPDFA) and several other people from around the world to develop our own rules and criteria based upon the guidelines set by the International Olympic Organization.
It is the hope that these rules and criteria will be the standards for pole competitions around the world. So actually the PDC and the Pole Sports Organization are aleady working toward this goal.
It is several of us from both of these organizations plus many other well-known names in the pole industry who are in the process of setting a meeting to bring us all together to work on some uniformity among competitions.
I believe KT already publicized the rules and criteria but I'll have to search for it. – I'm not certain as we've done so much work on this for the past year and half that it's a bit of a blur what I saw posted and where!
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