SpyralBound
Forum Replies Created
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I may be at a slight advantage in my area because pole fitness has gained a decent public profile, there are at least two studios that I know of in our greater area, and there are often pieces in the newspaper about pole fitness gyms and stuff. I think the idea of “pole fitness” isn’t all that alien to people around here so there isn’t always the automatic jump to “stripper.”
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Usually my own delivery is something like … “One of the main things I do for exercise is actually pole dance (or pole fitness), I took it up a few years ago when my friend got me curious about it, and have never had so much fun exercising.” Depends on the audience and how much time I have to go into detail.
Worst experience for me was a few years ago, a coworker outed me to the whole office on a reply-to-all email. We were joking about the features we’d like to see in the new space our business would move to… jacuzzi, massage table, mini bar, basketball court … and then she chimed in with “Yeah and we could put up a stripper pole and Spyral could teach us some moves!” A few people replied awkwardly (one with “TMI, la la la la”) and I gathered my jaw off the floor and responded with something like “Ha, I like the idea, but prefer to just call it a pole, I’m not a stripper!” This was when I was relatively new to the company, so I was a little concerned about the impression that gave.
On the plus side, it did encourage some other coworkers to come ask me about it out of curiosity.
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Playing devil’s advocate a bit, I don’t see the “but I’m not a stripper” comment to be meant as derogatory towards strippers. “I pole dance but I am not a stripper” is a completely accurate statement about me. I can see how someone might *infer* that I disapprove of stripping, especially if it’s spoken out loud with a certain tone, but it’s not like I’m saying “I pole dance but I’m not a stripper, that would be icky.”
I have found that even when I qualify with something like “I pole dance for fitness and fun” the stripper question is still not far behind on my listener’s mind. They might then ask “Have you ever been a stripper? Do you know a lot of strippers? Would you ever consider stripping?” kinds of followup questions.
Like it or not, for a majority of people, the only context in which they can immediately place pole dance is the exotic context. Saying “I pole dance but I’m not a stripper,” in a non-defensive and non-accusatory tone, just nips that question in the bud so I can take the conversation in a different direction (talking about the many many positive aspects of pole) without that shadow hanging over, just waiting to be asked.
I do see your point, though, not disagreeing with you – just providing another perspective, that it’s not all bad all the time.
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Good point Kobajo, yes some Creative Commons music may not be used for commercial purposes. There’s a check box on the main search page where you can select “I want content that I can use for commercial purposes” if that’s your goal.
The “Can I play it in my class” and “Can I use it in a video” issues are related, but fall under different governing laws.
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It's not really YouTube's fault or decision here. If you're going to be annoyed with anyone, it would be the recording companies, studios and licensing agents who are so strict and contradictory about the use of their material. YouTube is complying out of legal obligation to cover its ass.
Honestly if ASCAP, BMI etc. knew that we post content royalty-free on StudioVeena, they'd be after Veena & Webby too, and after us. We can get away with it here because we're small fry. YouTube definitely isn't.
Blocking in certain countries usually means the song/artist/record label isn't copyright-protected under those countries' laws. Like, American or Canadian copyright law might not translate over to Germany so they just block it from German viewers.
No one is being targeted by YouTube for being a certain kind of performer; the system is automatic. We don't know what rights Charlee Wagner or pole competition organizers or whomever have purchased, or it could be that they're still breaking the rules but just didn't get caught for some reason. It's not YouTube favoritism or bias, and it's definitely an imperfect system.
Anyone using YouTube, though, agrees to abide by YouTube's Terms of Service, which includes all this copyright nonsense. Don't like it, don't use YouTube. YouTube users can't have their cake and eat it too.
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What's the worst case scenario? You embarrass yourself in front of people?
(Well, I mean, worst worst case is that you fall so bad that you actually hurt yourself, but we'll not go there – it seems your concerns are more along the 'What if I mess up?" lines.)
Let go of perfectionism.
Let go of "not good enough."
Let go of competition and comparison against other dancers or yourself.
Let go of expectations.
Let go of self-criticisms and self-editing.
Let go of hyperanalyzing everything.
Let go of other people's opinions and approval.Just get up there and dance!
And if you mess up, or fall, or miss your cues, or trip, or whatever, it's not like you have to quit pole dance forever and live in shame with a scarlet letter on your chest. There will always be more opportunities to perform and improve, and you'll get nothing but love from your fellow dancers (who have all been there before). Chances are, unless you really wipe out badly, the little flaws won't be nearly as apparent to your audience as they are to you, so don't let them worry you.Now for more practical, less inspirational advice: Get there early. REALLY early. Warm up and try to stay warmed up for the whole time that you're waiting for your turn. By the time you get to the stage, you'll be *eager* to perform. Nervous, yeah, but because you've been there forever just trying to keep yourself warmed up and stretched and everything, part of you will be very "Let's DO THIS already." At least, that's how it was for me when I performed last year. I got there probably 2 hours early, if not more, and by the time my turn was up, I was like FINALLY!!! And yeah I was nervous, especially since I was 2nd in the lineup behind a very well choreographed routine to "Cell Block Tango" from Chicago, but mostly I just wanted it behind me already.
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Maybe this should be the inspiration for a new StudioVeena.com challenge:
Dance to silence.
(I'm only half joking. When I was in colorguard in high school there was another team who did an entirely silent performance that was pretty breathtaking.)
Classical, traditional and some old folk music (like nursery rhymes, hymns & gospel, etc.) tend to be public domain, might be time to start expanding our tastes…
I mostly kid. Nearly all of my videos only live on StudioVeena, mostly because the only people I care to show my videos to are already here. In the past I've occasionally gotten warning emails from YouTube about copyrighted content but they've never taken a video down or flagged my account or anything, just said "Hey, just so you know, WE SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE." Those notifications are there for legal purposes so that if/when ASCAP takes one of us to court, we can't claim ignorance of copyright law. (That's what the 'Acknowledge' button is about too.)
And in addition to collecting the all-important $$ on the music rights, some artists also really care how their music is presented. Some presidential campaigns have used songs for their ads and events without the songwriter/artist's permission, and were met with pretty harsh Cease and Desist notices from those artists, not just over money, but because they didn't like the use of their song for politics or for that candidate's party/campaign (I think Bruce Springsteen was one). Hypothetically there are artists out there too who would not be thrilled at their songs being publicly used for pole dance performances, no matter the incredible justice we do those songs through our art.
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The Jareth costume is of course spectacular but so many accessories (including socks!)! It'll probably end up being more than I'd want to spend on a one-time costume. I'm thinking I might channel Ziggy Stardust or Aladdin Sane instead – mullet hair, makeup and a crazy outfit from the thrift shop. I'm gonna pop some tags…
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Or hell, maybe I'll just be Bowie. 🙂
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Depends how you like to dance, I guess. I really like "Heroes," "Jean Genie," and his cover of "Across the Universe" for pole. "Rebel Rebel" would also be fun if you're doing a costume piece. 🙂
My favorite, and now this is on my freestyle short list, is "As the World Falls Down" from the Labyrinth soundtrack. OMG I'm dying to dance to that now. And thinking I need a Labyrinth-themed Halloween costume.
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Thanks kobajo.
And ginger, I was using porn as an example of a similar subject with hotly contested perspectives on whether or not it’s empowering, to counterpoint those saying she shouldn’t publish her views on it until she’s tried it. We all have views and beliefs about things we haven’t actually experienced firsthand.
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Thing is… empowerment is subjective, not objective. It can't be measured, only perceived. So the question "Is pole dancing empowering?" is inherently flawed. Power, in the sense of personal power, the value one feels they bring to the world, is a manmade invention and exists entirely in our heads. (Obviously this is different than "legal" empowerment, i.e. the right to vote.) I also have a beef with the claim "It objectifies women" – what, the pole does? Only people can objectify people, so by claiming that pole dance objectifies women, you're really just objectifying women who pole dance. And besides, though no one wants to admit it, everyone objectifies other people. Politicians, advertisers, salesmen, you and me. I really don't think there's such a thing as a world without objectification, nor do I personally believe all objectification is 100% evil.
For the sake of argument, though, I do think she can have an opinion on it without ever trying it. Example: Porn. What a contentious topic that can be, especially among feminists or feminist-leaning people. Pro-sex feminists will argue that it's empowering, given that everything happening is consensual, because women should be free to make whatever sexual choices they want, even if that choice is being gangbanged on camera for money. Meanwhile a whole another faction believes porn is exploitative, damaging and contributes to rape culture by giving its viewers unrealistic expectations and encourages sexual abuse. The kicker being: the grand majority of the people on both sides have never actually been porn actors themselves, or worked in the adult entertainment industry at all. They are talking about whether other people find it empowering or feel exploited — again, very subjective terms. But the lack of direct experience doesn't stop anyone from evaluating the merits of porn and the effects of porn on society, and I personally agree with that – we can't limit discussion of topics only to those with firsthand experience or else it becomes an echo chamber.
For a totally nonsexual example, I've never played football beyond throwing one around with my brother in the backyard, but I'm still within my rights to have an opinion on the dangers of traumatic brain injury among NFL players, what the NFL is doing (or really, NOT doing) to address it, and my general gut feeling that football is kinda stupid and boring. I'm not obligated to change my mind on any of those issues to please football players or fans, any more than this author or anyone is obligated to change their minds on pole dance.
Be it prostitution or exotic dancing/stripping or webcam girls or sex toy parties, women engaging in sexual endeavors with confidence and enthusiasm (rather than modesty and shame) makes people NERVOUS. Not just because women are challenging societal norms, but also because a lot of those activities can be damaging; not every prostitute, stripper, or web cam girl is doing it because they really want to, but because they feel there's no other choice, or in worst cases have been forced to. Sex trafficking stays largely under the public radar but remains a huge problem globally.
So from the outside, how can any one person, psychologist or otherwise, know what's going on in a particular case? How can she know whether the women in the pole dance classes at her gym haven't suffered from past sexual trauma, or aren't currently? After all, one motivating factor to take on something like sexy pole dance can be to reclaim one's sexuality from someone else who has owned it – parents, the church, a romantic partner, an abuser/rapist, society and culture. Or even taking the sexy out of it and just looking at fitness: does that pole dance junkie in the corner taking ALL the classes have body image issues or an eating disorder (which can include exercise binging)? Obviously this is not the case for the grand majority of pole dance students, but it CAN and DOES happen so I can understand a degree of skepticism. (I mean, body image and self-esteem issues come up on these forums all the time.)
This reminds me of a former friend of mine who I met during my early days of pole dancing. I encouraged her several times to try it with me, especially when I found out she'd done it in the past. But when I pressed her on it, she told me about her abusive ex-boyfriend who coerced her into pole dancing (a) for his pleasure and (b) so she'd have the body he wanted her to have. Pole dancing actually stripped her of her power in that relationship (well, it wasn't the only thing), rather than empowered her, and she didn't want to take it up again now because she believed it would trigger a cascade of very negative feelings about herself, her sexuality and her body.
So insisting that pole dancing is or isn't empowering, either way, will end up ignoring and thus invalidating the unique experiences of individual women and glossing them over with a majority opinion. Do I personally feel empowered by pole dance? Sure, sometimes. It has generally made me feel more positively about my body and my capacity to be sexually attractive to others. But it can also make me feel like crap, when I'm having a bad practice day, or when I judge my body in my videos, or when I'm crying because I'm trying to shop for hot pole dance clothes and can't find anything that's right for my body because I'm "too big" in some areas. So my answer to that question will vary depending on when you ask me.
I've already said a lot so I'll try to wrap this up. Just like there are so many different styles of pole dance and no one style is superior or more valid than the others, there are so many different ways of reacting to pole dance and no one reaction is more valid. Obviously most of us here would ideally prefer positive, nonjudgmental or even enthusiastic reactions, but the simple fact is there will always be people who either disagree or are skeptical. (Try to think of one thing the whole world sees the same way. I'll wait.) That's the beauty of the human intellect: diversity. For better or for worse. ​
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Good points, sparrow and trinity, it all comes down to the same thing: you can't expect everyone to be as excited or informed about things as you are. I've hidden friends from my FB feed for all kinds of crap, talking too much about TV shows I don't watch, stirring up drama, oversharing WAY too much or too frequently, inviting me relentlessly to apps and games and events, posting too many photos of their kids… Hell, I even hid my own mother in law because she goes on sharing binges and shares 14 stupid joke memes in a row.
Ain't nobody got time for that!
That said, I re-read my post above and realize I might have sounded a little harsh, and that wasn't my intention. I respect you, luvlee, and respect your feelings. I am a little touchy about any kind of "evangelizing-like" behavior and I think that's what got triggered in me when I wrote it.
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BTW my last paragraph wasn't directed at anyone here, just a general comment. I shouldn't have used "you" like I was speaking to someone.
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My compulsions have to do with perfectionism and putting things in order. The best example is that I write first drafts of my grocery lists. I write one draft where I just shoot out everything I know I need to buy, and then a second draft where things are in order or grouped together based on where I'll find them in the store. And I'll do this as many times as I need to in order to have a grocery list that's "right." If I have to rush and go to the store with a messy list, that's pretty upsetting for me, I might even try to rewrite it while I'm at the store. I do the same thing with my to-do lists, I am compelled to have things in a certain order that make sense to me, and will re-write lists until I'm satisfied (often spending more time on the to-do list than on the tasks themselves!).
Most of my compulsions are organizational like that, I'll spontaneously rearrange kitchen cabinets or furniture or closets to a new, better organization, or shift stuff around on my desk until it's nice and neat, that kind of thing. It doesn't really affect my poling so much unless I'm writing something out like a routine or a list of tricks I want to work on.
I know I picked up some of my OCDism from my mom. She might be actually diagnosably OCD, just has never actually sought treatment for it because it doesn't tend to interfere with her life that much. She has her "ways" of doing things and can't live with them being done a different way. My grandma (Dad's mom) once stayed with my parents for a week or two and wanted to help out around the house, so she folded some laundry, but she folded the socks a different way than my mom does it, so later she went and unfolded and refolded all of them before she could put them away.
That's the Obsessive part of OCD – the not being able to let it go until it's fixed. The behavior itself is the Compulsive part. A lot of people have rituals and habits that might qualify as compulsive, but aren't obsessive about them, they can let it roll off their shoulder if they don't get to complete those actions. That's not really OC behavior, that's just having a preference. I'm only pointing it out because it's a liiiiittle bit insensitive to people with legit, life-altering OCD to claim or joke that you have it when you don't. (Sorry to be the P.C. police.)
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Can I ask why you feel compelled to be a Pole Ambassador if it stresses you out so much? Why do you feel like it's your job to educate people?
Not everybody understands, because pole (as we know it) is still kind of underground. And even if you do exhaust yourself explaining it, there will still be people who don't understand, or who could have all the information in front of them and still have a biased view.
If they say "Oh I've heard that's a great workout," why correct them on that? It IS a great workout! And if that's the lens they want to see it through, that's still worlds better than "Ew." If they say "Oh my SIL had a pole party once," that's great! No problem there. People are exposed to pole in different ways. They're not trying to say "I know all about that," they're just finding a way to relate to it.
Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine that you're talking to a stranger or casual acquaintance (or maybe in your case, a client), and they mention that they're into something that you don't really know a whole ton about… let's say they're really into scuba diving. And you're like "Oh cool, I've heard that's really fun! My sister-in-law went scuba diving on her honeymoon. And of course I've always been curious about snorkeling." And then that person goes into a speech telling you all the things you DON'T know about scuba diving and how snorkeling is not at all the same, they are not a snorkeler, they're a DIVER. And then they tell you about all these amazing dives they've been on in places you've never heard of, and start talking about equipment and safety and technicalities you know nothing about. Every time you try to re-enter the conversation with a comment or observation, they push back with MORE to tell you how uninformed you are. Maybe they even pull up their phone and start showing you images or videos from their dives. And imagine they get frustrated that you're just nodding and smiling and not as INTO it as they are.
But you didn't sign up for a lecture on scuba diving. You were just making small talk, trying to find a way to relate to this person, being friendly. How did their speech just make you feel? Bored? Embarrassed? Irritated? And what do you think of that person now? They're obsessed, pushy, boring, only know how to talk about one thing? And are you any more or less interested in scuba diving now than you were before they started talking?
I'm not trying to be critical, I do understand why you're frustrated by a feeling that you can't share your passion, I'm just encouraging you to look at it from the other side before writing people off as judgmental or ignorant. Sure, it would be grand if everyone were as excited about pole as about Monday Night Football or Dancing with the Stars or the new Batman movie or whatever, but just like I'm allowed to not give a crap about DWTS and not want to know more about it, people are allowed to not give a crap about pole beyond what they already know, even if that knowledge is shallow and incomplete.
Now, if they do start going into the stereotypes or being all judgey, it's your choice whether you want to drop some knowledge on them. "I'm not a stripper, I'm an athlete. I don't dance at clubs or for tips. The competitions I'm entering aren't stripping competitions, they judge us on tricks and skill." I mean really, that's all the farther you need to go. If they keep asking questions, great, keep answering. Or you can just ignore them and talk about the weather instead.
Personally, I usually let the other person guide the conversation when I bring up pole. If all they have to say is "Oh that's nice," then great, move on to something else. If they have questions, I'm happy to answer. If they make assumptions, I might correct them, might not, depending on my relationship to that person and how long a conversation I want to have.
I've actually found that when I tell women about it, the response is usually either "Oh cool, I've always wanted to try that" or "I envy you, I could never do that." Most of the men I mention it to don't really ask many followup questions. They might comment like "Oh I bet your husband really likes that" or something, and depending on the person, I might tell them "Well, I've been at it for X years so the novelty has worn off, but he does love how fit and confident it's made me." Or I might just wink and nod and let them draw their own conclusions. What's so wrong with that?
I kinda liken it to how I used to be obsessed with correcting people's grammar. I'd stop them mid-sentence to fix a verb or their pronunciation of a word or using the wrong word. I'd go on angry rants online because I found a typo on a website. I'd self-righteously shake my fist and proclaim that "people just don't know how to speak/write English anymore, they're so uneducated and careless!" Over time I came to accept that grammar isn't everything, that most people can't help what kind of education they got growing up, and that they probably don't appreciate being corrected or made to feel stupid and I'm actually making myself look like an ass by insisting on there being only one correct way to communicate. So now, unless they ask me to edit something for them, I don't correct people anymore, saving myself a lot of frustration and energy. Sure, maybe I wince a little bit, I encountered a woman last week who used "her" instead of "she" (Her will be OK, her just has a little injury) and it irked me, but it's SO not my responsibility to educate her.
I say, go on living happy and secure in yourself as a rockstar, hardcore pole dancer, and let people think what they will, because they will anyway. Your energy is better spent on the pole than on lectures about pole! 🙂
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I'd agree with others, the most likely culprit is people who have no business going into business. 🙂 i.e. they think passion + vision is all they need and the rest will work itself out. Optimism is fine and all, as long as you balance it with realism.
I think one big reason the studio I go to is doing well, and has been doing well for a few years now, is that they offer a whole lot more than pole classes. Of course this makes it frustrating to me as a student sometimes because that means pole has to compete with other things on the schedule, and they keep adding more and more non-pole stuff. But I do think that's why the studio runs as well as it does, because it's not *just* relying on pole students as a source of revenue. That, and the owners clearly have their heads on straight when it comes to running the business.
I'm getting ready to go into business on my own soon too – not pole-related at all, but as a writing consultant & coach – and I tell you what, working at a small business for the last two years with a boss who is VERY transparent about how the business is running, has been hugely educational for me. I wouldn't dream of trying to launch a business without the knowledge I've gained here. I mean, there's a reason that people get master's degrees in business administration – it ain't easy to figure out as you go!
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I believe SiriusXM satellite radio's business account lets you use it for studios – at least, when I went to Cardinal Fitness a few years ago, that's what they had playing. I haven't actually confirmed this yet.
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Happy to help! I first saw it in a video here by elaine maciel? I think is her name? and thought WOW I have to try that. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
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I do it in this video at about 1:04 if you need a demo.
https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/51be3106-b70c-456f-a868-36530ac37250
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Think of ways you can make Figurehead itself a dynamic pose vs. a static one that you just hold. Best option is to do some movement with your arms (once you're strong enough in it that you can move your arms rather freely), like arching your back and head and reaching the free arm back overhead, or reaching towards the audience dramatically with outstretched fingers, etc.
Another thing you can do to move out of it: Fan Kick and turn into a Plank. Sorta hard to describe in words but you grab the pole like you would to invert, free your legs from the Figurehead, then do a Fan Kick just like you would from the floor. And as your body twists back towards the pole, you get your inside leg around the pole so it's now between your legs, and lean back into a plank (then Advanced Plank, CAR, whatevs). Takes some practice but looks really nice, especially if you can get a nice high Fan Kick in the air. It's my new favorite transition. 🙂
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stylynzy, I've been poling for about 2.5 years. It's usually not *hitting* the pole that makes me bruise (more often, I hit the floor from an awkward dismount!), it's the pulling on my skin in certain poses that make me use skin I don't normally put pressure on. Like anything that uses an inner arm, elbow or armpit grip. like Teddy, Flag and Yogini, I can't even do one of those without incurring bruises on the inside of my bicep (where, even just looking at it, I can tell the skin is more delicate and fragile). And inside leg hang (Scorpio) still bruises my inner thighs – again, fragile skin in those areas. Maybe that means I'm relying too much on skin grip/resistance vs. gripping with my muscles.
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I very much doubt I'll ever stop bruising, I am a redhead with lily-white skin and get a bruise if I sneeze too hard, LOL. Not literally, but it does take very little, especially on areas where the skin is a little thinner like my inner arms and thighs. Pretty much anything where I have to grip with my armpit or inner part of my bicep, I have huge nasty bruises there for days. Which reminds me, I'm attending a wedding in a few months and should probably avoid practicing that week so I don't show up in all the photos with massive purple and brown spots all over me….
If you're concerned about the appearance of bruises, rather than the pain (mine often don't actually *hurt* they're just ugly), Arnica gel does help, if you put it on *right* after your practice. Next day, not as useful. I have some but I never remember to use it, silly me. You can usually get it at whole-foods type stores or in the organic section of your supermarket if it has one. It, allegedly, helps the bruises heal faster and not appear so dark. Take that with a grain of salt as with all "natural" remedies, but it's inexpensive and could be worth a try.
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I think sometimes in a small community like ours, it can seem all of a sudden like everything is pushing one way, or everyone is doing one thing, all at once, and that can make people panic.
I remember feeling so left out and inadequate when it felt like EVERYONE was doing silks, or hooping, or lyra, or acroyoga, in addition to pole, and I felt like the last person left who was just a poledancer and nothing more. (Yes, I was jealous.) That feeling passed when those activities moved out of the collective spotlight.
And then see what happens when someone figures out a "new" trick. Just this year I've seen Butt Superman (or sidesaddle superman as I call it), Titanic, Icarus, Phoenix and Fonji become these really popular moves, and those are just the ones I know the name of off the top of my head. For a while it was Iron X. One person gets it right and a whole crowd will follow. And that's great! But it can also feel like OMG, Everyone's doing Titanic, should I be trying that too/I'm sad I can't do that yet/etc.
So right now pole sports are in the news and getting a lot of attention, and it feels like THAT is the direction the whole movement is going… but will we feel the same in a month? Two months? Probably not, the currents will change and we'll become distracted by some other new shiny thing. 🙂 (I say that endearingly and playfully, not mockingly.)
