portableninja
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I have back problems as well. I’ve been to doctors, chiropractors, and massage therapists and everyone has a different theory about what is wrong with my lower back. The consensus seems to be that I had some type of traumatic injury (likely an impact, probably during my earlier days as a martial artist). It presents as something not unlike what happens to people in car accidents. I’m usually OK in everyday life, but long walks or vigorous exercise can aggravate it to the point of painful spasms and limited mobility.
Working on advanced pole tricks, especially shoulder mounts, aerial inverts, and legs-off tricks like ayesha, was majorly bothering my back. I would experience spasms and limited mobility whenever I had an attack, and having an attack while inverted on the pole was very scary. That’s why I’m not poling at the moment.
It’s super important to work within your limits and don’t compare yourself to others who are working without injuries. That was a big problem for me – I’d want to keep up with everyone else in classes or workshops, and push myself too hard as a result. I really beat myself up over it emotionally.
To get better, I took time off from pole, and I also got more seriously into yoga to build up my core, glutes, back, and hips. It’s very important to realize that “core strength” is not the same thing as “abdominal strength” or “back strength.” Veena’s lessons do go into the differences. In a nutshell, your core is all about stability, whereas your external muscles are about movement. True core exercises are felt very deep and usually don’t look like much to a bystander. Yoga helped me so much with developing my core, so I’m doing yoga teacher training this fall so I can deepen my understanding and share the benefits with others.
Good luck and train safe!
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I am also really sweaty, and I once took a workshop with a professional level pole dancer who had to deal with sweating problems too. It is very frustrating, but it helped me to learn that no one is immune and even the pros struggle to find the perfect cocktail of grip aids. As you get stronger over time, it will begin to matter less. Meaning, you still might slip when you are sweating hard, but only when you are pushing yourself to the limits of your strength and using your skin to stay up, not your muscles. Focus on conditioning your body and see if that helps.
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I just stopped at the Hallmark store for a greeting card and saw this. We are beginning to wise up!
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I’d like to post a more thoughtful reply, but I’m a bit short on time at the moment.
Everyone who has posted has hit upon lots of great points. I deactivated my Facebook account earlier this year for a variety of reasons, which I could go into at length. I only have a LinkedIn because it’s a professional necessity in my field. When the topic of social media invariably comes up in conversation and I respond that I disabled my account, people are either shocked, think I’m hiding something, or that I was harassed. The reality is, I was tired of the nonsense. I was experiencing the “look at me, look how much better my life is than yours” problem in both my regular social life and within the pole dance community. I really dislike what social media has done to our society, and the way it has affected how we treat one another.
I really appreciate how hard Veena works to keep this community a positive experience for everyone, from total beginner to pro, and most importantly for everyone who is somewhere in the middle. It is not an easy thing to do on the modern internet. I would have given up pole dancing a very long time ago if not for this place. I’ll never be pro level or even advanced level, I don’t have the desire, physical gifts, or nerve. This is the only place where I feel like I can be a casual poler, the same way I am a casual gardener, foodie, reader, writer, hiker, film critic, etc. and not be treated like a second-class citizen. I don’t have a flat split, I sweat too much to want to attempt anything dangerous without a mat, and I have close to zero dance training or stage presence. But I think pole dancing is fun, and here, I feel like that is enough.
I recently read an excellent 2012 book by MIT prof Sherry Turkle. I think everyone should read it and think hard about how much value social media adds to their lives versus what it costs.
http://www.amazon.com/Alone-Together-Expect-Technology-Other/dp/0465031463/If you don’t have time to read the book, the author did a TED talk that covered some of the key points:
http://www.ted.com/talks/sherry_turkle_alone_together -
Thank you goldendiva, for saying so well what I have been thinking for a while. The focus on the pole tricks arms race and “how many likes can I get on this picture?” at the expense of learning good technique or just having fun, is what led to me taking time off from pole.
There are a few threads going about Layla Duvay – I never met her, but I’ve been watching her videos a bit and I’m really enjoying them. She is not a trickster, but she still rocks. And I think that’s important. If you haven’t watched her videos, you should.
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These videos are excellent kasanya, thank you so much!
I sit at a desk all day, but my hip flexors aren’t all that tight – I’ve had close to a middle split for years now. My problem is definitely insufficient core stability and overcompensating psoas. I carry a lot of tension and pain in my lower back when standing or sitting for long periods. I sit at a desk all day for work, so I know that is another major issue and I need to train extra hard to help mitigate that. Since taking up a regular yoga practice, I have made significant gains in my inner core stability (transversus abdominis, multifidus, etc) from doing poses like lunges, warrior 3 and side plank. This has helped take the load off my hips and has given my psoas some room to breathe. It really is all about gaining new muscle memory and learning how to relax muscles that have been tight for almost a decade.
As I get stronger and continue to stretch, the pain is beginning to go away. That’s why I recommend yoga to people. Done properly, it hits on both strength building exercises and flexibility training. When I got my first deep tissue massage, the therapist was blown away by how tight my hip flexors and psoas are. There were a few points where I said “ow! I thought you weren’t supposed to massage a bone!” and he laughed and explained that it wasn’t a bone, I was just that tight. Even a foam roller isn’t enough to free them up – I need an elbow. 🙂 I will definitely be bookmarking these videos to add to my rehab collection.
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Good luck!
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Warrior III: http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/941
Half Moon: http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/784
You can also just work on lifting the straight leg back behind you, with engaged glutes, while standing in line, washing dishes, etc. It may be a small motion at first. Veena has a lesson she calls the Booty Lift that is similar.
Also, really focus on engaging the glutes in lunges, squats, and plies. It may be hard to do this at first if you don’t have the muscle memory, so if it helps, put your hand on your butt cheek and make sure it is firing. -
I hsve this issue too! My butt was lazy on both sides actually. My hamstrings were doing all the work to lift my legs. My massage therapist is the one who noticed it, and gave me some exercises to do (he is also a yoga teacher so it was mostly yoga poses to practice). Since I have begun focusing on on actively flexing my glutes in extensions, my splits flexibility has improved, AND my chronic back pain has improved as well. I wish I’d gotten proper butt lessons back in gym class!
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Hi Bri 🙂
My old pole studio has the mats in the second link. I think they have the 4 inch model. They have much higher ceilings than 8 feet, but the mats are high quality and very cushy. I have dropped into one (intentionally, to test it) and I did not feel the floor. If you intend to ever teach students, some insurance policies may require mats of a certain thickness (not sure – other instructors or studio owners should probably chime in on that). If you are practicing a trick that you may fall out of, then I wouldn’t worry about losing a few inches of working pole space in the name of safety. You can always remove the mat when you need the working space, like for spins.
I bought the Lil Mynx crash mat and it is only 2 inches thick. It gives me an extra layer of safety from the hard wood floors in case I fall, and also helps my knees, etc. when I come down with control. But it probably wouldn’t satisfy the needs of a studio. It’s just the bare minimum in my opinion. That said, I am a pretty conservative home poler and I wait to try new tricks at workshops/with spotters available.
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Bad information is definitely a problem in regard to gyms and weightlifting exercise. I would say that you can trust Veena’s information to be well researched. I have yet to hurt myself following one of her videos, and the information I’ve learned from using the resources on this site has helped me tune out bad or incomplete information from other sources.
My husband has had success in his own, non-pole fitness journey with exercises he found on the bodyweight fitness forum on Reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness. Since it is bodyweight focused, most of the exercises do not involve free weights, but some involve equipment like chin up bars, weight benches, etc. There is also an r/fitness forum for more general audiences, but he said it often runs into the broscience problem that chemgoddess mentioned. r/bodyweightfitness is full of a lot of gymnasts, crossfitters, acrobats, parkour enthusiasts, etc.
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You are not alone. I think you will find that many members on SV have dealt with clinical depression, and have experienced issues related to pole and working out as a result. I am one of those people. Lack of energy and lack of interest in activities that used to bring you joy are the classic symptoms of a depressive episode, so of course your pole experience will be affected.
I recently wrote a blog entry about some of the things I’ve been struggling with over the past few months which have led me to not want to use my pole.
https://www.studioveena.com/blogs/view/2013_goal_review_and_2014_goals_20140102010623
For me, it was only making things worse to attempt a workout and fail. I would end up frustrated with myself for not being as good as I wanted to be, and pole became just another source of anxiety and depression. For me, it helped to give myself permission to work on the broader issues in my life and let pole take a backseat for as long as it took to make progress. Instead of beating myself up every day I didn’t exercise, instead I celebrated the days I took steps toward resolving the larger issues that were preventing me from being happy.
Pole will always be there, and just because you hit a few bumps in the road doesn’t mean you need to give up. If you need to get back into it as a way to feel better, Veena’s 30 day program is a good way to get back into the groove. Even if you are more advanced than a beginner, it’s a good way to just have a structured set of exercises to do each day that relate to conditioning, stretching, etc. It makes it less overwhelming to do it that way with a checklist of things to do. You can always do advanced variations or add more reps or skills practice to the workouts if you choose.
Another thing that really helped me was cross training. When pole was making me feel weak and helpless, yoga made me feel strong, happy, and capable, and taking a walk around my neighborhood for fresh air helped more than staying inside. I’m not sure what works for you, but taking a break from pole to do other forms of exercise may help you get your mojo back.
Good luck and hope you feel better soon!
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I wrote a blog about my goals.
https://www.studioveena.com/blogs/view/52c5b8af-db0c-43da-a18d-14560a9aa0eb
Good luck to everyone, and congrats to all who achieved or surpassed their 2013 goals!
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I learned shoulder mount into brass monkey (what Veena calls inverted back hook). It’s actually the only way I can get into brass monkey at the moment. Instead of bringing your legs straight up to inverted crucifix, bring them to one side of the pole (like you were going to do a shoulder mount flip to the floor) except hook the inside leg at the knee pit. Once you have the knee pit hold, you can release your hands and reposition your body into brass monkey.
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I’ve had the “do you feel safe at home” question from my doctor too. I’ve since learned that it is often a mandatory question on the patient intake form, it doesn’t necessarily mean they suspect abuse. The good news is, it usually means an opportunity to explain pole dance to a new person. 🙂
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Here is the thing about the pole hold. If you’re a beginner, it seems really hard, so hard that it seems impossible. In that way it is very similar to a chin-up or pull-up. Back when I couldn’t do any pull-ups, the idea of doing even one seemed impossible. Over a long period of time, I built up the necessary strength to do one (!) pull-up, and it was life changing. After that, it didn’t take long at all before I could do two. Or even three. The progression to multiples was easier than the long slow journey to one. There is a huge range of fitness levels between zero and one. If you are closer to zero than one, then “one” will take longer than someone who starts out closer to one.
When I first started poling, I took classes that didn’t focus very hard on drilling the real “basics” like the pole hold. These classes were great for my self esteem but ended up being bad for my body. With my existing strength I was able to get pretty far into climbing, inverts, etc. but using bad body mechanics to do so. I wasn’t engaging my shoulders properly, I was using the wrong muscles to “force” the move instead of building the right ones. I’m very lucky I didn’t get injured. Now when I started working on more advanced pole tricks I realized I couldn’t fumble my way through with strength alone, and I needed to go back to basics. It was humbling, but necessary. If you can start out doing things right, you won’t have to go back later.
I know the pole hold seems impossible, but do it the way Veena teaches it, even if it takes you months to get there. Your body will thank you when it has the right muscles to use for the harder stuff, and you will have the right muscle memory for the harder stuff!
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I think I know what you mean. I took a workshop with Marlo recently and she included a lean back and spin down a static pole in a combo she taught. However she didn’t give a lot of details on how to do it, and I struggled with it. It actually kept me from getting to the next move in the combo. I know it has a lot to do with leaning out from the pole to create angular momentum, as well as having good enough control with your legs to release and twirl down instead of your thighs sticking like in a sit.
Does anyone know how to break this down? I would appreciate a lesson on it too. 🙂
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Veena, I did your two new routines today! That got me thinking. I was surprised how difficult the soleus raises were for me. I do regular calf raises all day long whenever I’m standing and waiting for something, but not the other kind.
During the leg lift exercises in the new routine, I found that it was tricky to do them with good form in the leg and also with a good toe point. My foot would curve inward if I focused on keeping my knee facing up during the lift. If I really focused on keeping my foot straight and not sickled, my hip started to open and my knee was no longer straight up during the lift. Not to mention the hip flexor burn. 😉 It’s hard for sure. I’ll keep practicing! Everyone talks about how hard things like split grip are, but I find having pretty legs is a big challenge! 🙂 -
Thank you Mary Ellen and Lina! My sister in law took ballet for many years and mentioned that there were exercises I could do to improve it. I have heard about the need to strengthen the instep, but it was hard to imagine how to do that exactly. This is really helpful.
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Just FYI, I have seen significant gains in my splits this year from a consistent vinyasa yoga practice. It’s doing yoga that helps, not specifically the heat. So if you don’t like hot yoga (and some people just don’t) then non-heated yoga is great too!
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I have pretty weak hip flexors and I struggle to do a nice fan kick too. I took a workshop with Jamilla DeVille once and she said if you can’t do it with extended legs, you can keep your legs bent but with good toe point and control (sort of like you would have your legs in attitude.) This reduces the amount of strength required to lift them but still looks nice, and you can work up to using straight legs.
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I have done both types of yoga, both heated and non-heated. Personally, I prefer non-heated. One of the reasons is practical – I sweat a LOT when I exercise, enough where I end up with Bikram style sweat in a regular yoga class and I have to keep a fan running during my pole sessions. I slip and slide all over even when the room is only 70 degrees F.
Proponents of heated yoga claim that the high heat allows your body to stretch further because the muscles are kept very warm. This is a double-edged sword. Yes, warm muscles often can stretch further than cold muscles, and I know some very bendy hot yogis, but you may be tempted to over-stretch beyond the point where you really should be going. This can lead to ligament and tendon injury, which is not good. You can also easily slip during an asana and injure yourself if you are a sweaty beast like I am. Definitely use an anti-slip mat or towel in hot yoga classes, and know your limits. Although a lot of people wear shorts and sports bras in hot yoga, I find that skin can be really slippery when it’s soaked with sweat, and that makes things like arm balancing postures tricky. You may prefer wearing more clothing in synthetic wicking fabrics. Hot yoga is also contraindicated for people with certain health conditions, including high blood pressure and pregnancy. If you’re healthy, you’re probably fine, but just be careful. Stay healthy and safe 🙂
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There has to be some kind of beam in the ceiling, even if it is higher up than the surface where you would ordinarily use the dome. Can you cut a hole in the ceiling and use a vaulted/permanent mount for the Xpole? That’s what some studios with drop ceilings do.
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Definitely try all the grips – I can't do ayesha with a forearm grip or a split grip, but I can do it with elbow grip. Everyone's body is different – while forearm is a good place to start, I really struggle with it and was not getting anywhere. I took one private lesson where elbow grip was suggested for me, and I made much faster progress. Other people take really naturally to split grip. There is no one right answer for all!
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I'm dreading the video of mine just because I've already seen some stills, and my toes were definitely not pointed in many of them! I know average people will be like "holy crap, you're upside down on a pole, that's insane!" but all I will see is my floppy feet! Grrr.
