Unethical competitions
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REDKE71 ·
wow, i just want to say that i, and a few others, feel personally attacked here. :( I have nothing to do with the way USPDF picks submissions or handles their submission process. Do i agree that the deadline wasnt specified as well as it should have been in the info provided on the website, rather than in a reply to a comment at the bottom? YES. Do i think its wrong to allow late submissions, if that was the case? YES. Do i think that there needs to be a bit more transparency in the judging system? YES. Is it my place as a "pro" to boycott the competition, or drop out after ive already signed the paperwork, and completely shit on the organization that has given me, and this community so much recognition and validation? NO. This is only USPDF's 3rd year, and now the whole "organization" only consists of Wendy now since Anna has stepped away to do other things. Bottom line, pole dancing and USPDF and all these other competitions and organizations are still in their infancy when you really think about it. They are constantly changing and modifying and trying to make things better for the competitors. Why do i enter USPDF instead of other competitions? Money, yes. Because the prize money that is available to win. (which alot of these other competitons dont offer such a large cash prize. If you think we all wanted to win USPDF to tour and make money, youre mistaken. Yes, the notoriaty that comes with the title makes that possible, but i have worked my butt off to build my name in the pole community, and im not RICH by ANY means, alot of times i work almost for free! When i started touring, it wasnt because i won East Coast and i set out to get studios to hire me, no.. they contacted me. Prize money and all that aside, travel wise, its the easiest for me to get to.. I wouldve loved to enter the Pacific Pole competition that just went on, but like alot of these newer comps, i found out about it too late, and was already busy or booked on the date the comp was to be held, and wouldve been very costly for me to fly out, get a hotel, etc. Bottom line is, im feeling pretty shat on right now. I love this pole community, and its not USPDF that has made me who i am, its all of my hard work, dedication, sacrifice, blood, sweat, broken toes, tears, support and most of all, YOU, my fans, friends, and community.
If this was in response to my post Karol please re-read what I wrote. I did not state that there was big money involved, nor did I state that USPDF was making you rich. I stated that it is the most well recognized competition and making it in that comp does get your name out there; it opens doors that would not have been open. This is one of the reasons people still and always will submit to competitions.
Karol...please realize that a lot of us are not attacking YOU or ANYONE! For some of us it's just discussing the way to effectively deal with concerns if people have them. I for one am pretty sorry at how negative some of the comments have turned. On Facebook someone has said that when they arise concerns should be directed to organizers of competitions and I agree with that whole heartedly! Which is why I stated I am trying to be open to communication with people about my event and hopefully other organizers feel the same. However, it's a bit sad this morning to see the hurt feelings of many of the competitors who didn't deserve this! :(
REDKE71 ·
chloe, no that was not a response to your comment, but to this thread as a whole, in particular the "anonymous" comments.. Im sad that people are posting "anonymously" that alethea shouldnt have won 2010. Who are you to say that she didnt get a higher score in her compulsory and beat me that year by half a point? I had a flawless compulsory, and a couple misgrabs in my optional. I recall everyone having slip ups and misgrabs. Its like having a best friend, and you overhear them talking trash about you to someone else, when all the while this is someone who you love and respect as your friend. :(
People are being so hypocritcial. They are crying about fairness, well, why did so many submit past the deadline? They arent respecting the rules, or other entrants. If the pole community wants fair competitions, they need to be respectful of the deadlines as well, and not put the organizers in this situation. If the entrants respected the deadline, there would be no issue right now.
In all fairness, entrants were allowed to post their video to facebook also. We do not know if this was the case in the questioned videos (posted first to FB and then to YT). What is the case is a non-response, thus causing a lot of speculation.
This is all so craaay. It's hard to not feel attacked and, well, simply, have hurt feelings listening to all the hate. Many people are so quick to pick apart every mistake uspdf is making before they have even rolled out all the amateur finalist announcements :-( I think there was so much viral negativity and doubt bred online after last year's competition and those scruples are still lingering. Because of that, and our optimisitc and wonderful community, I think there was hope for things to be better and more clear this year. The second something looked a bit fishy...BOOM! The "anonymous" comment about boycotting the pros and not giving them any more money because we choose to participate in this competition (and are therefore unethical people) was the worst. That's food on my table and judgment on my character. I compete in uspdf and other competitions and dance with companies and at events because i love to pole dance! I do it for me. That's why we are all there. I mean, not for ME, but for ourselves ;-) I do believe progress and change will happen.
gina77 ·
That 2010 routine of Alethea's was AWESOME! I dont see where she "stumbled" at all.. sounds like sour grapes (hateration) to me! Every organization has their stars that sell & bring more attention to that organization.. hell, my high school wanted a specific girl to be valedictorian (sp?) & did whatever it took to make sure she was.. thats life!
Ember ·
Ladies, this conversation is getting way out of hand. The title of this post is "Unethical Competitions" not "Unethical Competitiors" There is no reason to be offended. USPDF basically makes the decision on who gets to be the next big name in pole dancing in the US for the coming years. We empower them to make those decisions for us. If they are doing things that are not transparent, and we continually support it, then what reason do they have to change? If we keep supporting organizations that have bias and can't stick to their own requirements, they will continue to do so. We are feeding a tiger and hoping it won't bite us in the ass. That is the point of this conversation. Please don't be offended!
REDKE71 ·
oh and for the record, alethea dislocated her knee right before the competition started, i watched her pop it back in and still pull off 2 amazing performances..!
REDKE71 ·
i agree with you ember, which is why i am offended that competitors are being brought into the arguement here. I dont run or own USPDF, all i wanna do is compete on safe poles, do the moves required of me, and leave a lil peice of my soul on that stage for everyone..!
I know that I probably have no right voicing my opinion here, but I have just watched Alethea's performance and I really liked it. Every competition is flawed in one way or another. It sucks, but its true. If you don't like the way a comp is run, don't enter. I do agree that guidelines should be enforced and bias should be avoided. But it is NOT FAIR to bash or attack those who choose to compete in a competition that you do not agree with. I appologise in advance if anyone takes offence with my opinon, but alas....its just my opinon.
amy ·
when i offered to post things anonymously for people, i honestly didn't expect or forsee the kinds of things people would ask me to post on their behalf. when i read them, was i surprised by the perspectives/opininos expressed? yes, absolutely. did i know that they would be hurtful? yes, absolutely. did i think it was better to not post them? yes, absolutely. did i feel comfortable ignoring teh request and NOT posting? unfortunately.... no, i didn't feel comfortable censoring anyone when i had made the offer. so, i am sorry that those opinions were brought to light because i know they were hurtful. do i think that they are not valid opinions? we can all have feelings, no matter how unpopular they may be. i think that what those anonymous comments express is a frustration. people don't get answers from USPDF so they take it out on the competitors, and are looking for someone--anyone-- to have power to control teh situation, to make things different. i DO NOT agree that the buck stops with the competitors who enter. I think the buck stops, plain and simple, with the organizations putting on the events. compettiors do one thing: compete. they are not there to explain their motives, or anything else, to anyone and they do not have any power beyond that. in my point of view, the people making the DECISIONS are the ones accountable. to me, it has never, and will neve, be about blaming or pointing fingers at anyone who submits, or competes. i have nothing but respect fo that, and for all the opinions posted here. i think that what has been disheartening for me, is to feel that by bringing up questions, i am stirring up "drama". my genuine goal, has been to encourage open, honest, conversation. i have tried very hard to be respectful and understanding of those caught in the middle, and reached out to a lot of peple to get perspective and thoughts. i am hopeful that it's easier to fix the cracks of the foundations we have, then to abandon them compeltely. i am hopeful that we can start dialogue with USPDF (who HAVE been reached out to, and again I deeply resent and am frustrated by people who ASSUME that this was not the case, and that "gossiping" was the end goal) to make things more transparent and more ethical going forward.
amy ·
I also want to add-- that i'm very sorry to all the compettors who feel that htey have had to explain themselves, or their actions. i may not be speaking for everyone, but to me-- it was NEVER about you, or what you do/do not do.
Amy, I think we all know that you have the best intentions at heart. I personally do not think that you would do anything to hurt the community. I think the issue is that people are now bashing Alethea out of their upset at USPDF. :(
Since I was the person who posted "the buck stops with the competitors" I feel it needs to be pointed out that I never said that the competitors of the USPDF are responsible for anything and in fact I have never made any statements supporting or discrediting either this competition or any other. This is exactly why I said I was hesitant to say anything in this thread as I didn't want anything to be miscontrued as judgement against anyone or any thing. I posted my thoughts and general suggestions which are the same ones I stated in the Facebook thread I referenced a few weeks ago: If ANYONE feels that an event is disreputable then don't enter. If you do support and respect an organization or event, then do participate. I don't agree however, with people who don't support an event but then participate anyway. It's really that simple. If you feel that an organizer (any organizer, myself included) are accountable then the competitors must call them on their accountability. We do not stop attending these events because then we are being unsupportive of our friends and peers who participate and we are only hurting them! To those who are upset about the USPDF...what do you think should happen now? Cancel the event? The pros and amateurs should drop out? This isn't the way to solve things. :(
I am still curious as to why no one is mentioning the fact that there were so many entries past the deadline? Everyone had months to submit. People want professionally run events, yet they cant follow simple rules and submit before the deadline? This is not a rinky dink competition held at a strip club. It is a serious competition that JENYNE BUTTERFLY, ALETHEA AUSTIN, & NATASHA WANG have won! Again, all this drama wouldnt be happening if people had respected the rules of the USPDF submission process. People can blame USPDF all they want, but its the unprofessionalism of the applicants that caused this mess. ***My opinion has nothing to do with the worthiness of the applicants. It merely has to do with respect and professionalism. Sorry if it sounds harsh.
Ember ·
We need to ask USPDF as a community. Why don't they post their scores? What are their exact scoring requirements? Why dont they allow their videos to be posted on YouTube? How can they remain transparent when judges and competitors are from the same studio? How can some performances be flawless and not place while others do? The whole way they operate seems like they have something to hide. These scores and videos should be made public.
I'm not speaking for USPDF but I don't believe the community needs to be made aware of what all the scores are of competitors. In the Midwest competitors see their own scores and know where they place but they are not told the other competitor's scores. This may or may not be what everyone agrees with but why would the community need to know what everyone's scores are? I just don't see that as necessary. Many of these women have competed for USPDF before and want to continue to support USPDF. Some others have competed and do not continue to support them. I'm certain I have my share of participants who may choose not to come back again. That's why it's good to have multiple competitions - so that there are choices. If you're going to compete then ask past competitors about the event, research the organizers and decide for yourself. As for hiring a champion to come teach or going to them for a workshop - are people really only doing this because they won an event and have a title? I hope not! I hope it's because you researched them and determined they had something worthwhile to offer in a workshop!!!
I'm glad that Karol & Michelle came to this thread because as I was thinking about it this morning, I started feeling like no matter how much we try to separate the competitor from the event, it must be hard and weird as someone who just got accepted to compete to hear about this conversation and feel judged for things not in their control. There is clear unhappiness about the transparency of the process and hopefully USPDF will address that moving forward. I know in a lot of comps, scores arent published or shared...but there are others that do. Maybe it is a separate conversation about what is gained or lost here. For my part, although I am sorry to hear about all of this disatisfaction and definitely am in support of finding answers, I know that the reason I even started poling was when I saw that iconic USPDF09 youtube video. It inspired me and gave me women to look up to. I want to hold on that memory and cheer my friends on who have been accepted into this year's comp. I want to support the statements that I think Alethea & Karol are making by competing again. But my eyes have been opened some. Amy, I think you are doing the community a service by opening up the conversation. At least more people are aware. But personally, having seen the content of the anonymous comments, I would have more respect for those posters if they would attach their names to their opinions...after all they've named names in their posts.
Angie La ·
Whatever happened to pole love..? I am going to be bold--leave it to me to be unconventional! This discussion sounds so gossipy, with all the 'anonomyous' messages through someone else. And why is this happening on studioveena? I'm really shocked. 😲 I would like to give a tremendous thanks to Karol Helms and Alethea Austin (among so many others) for giving us people to look up to, like the pole goddesses that you are. The amount of dedication you all pour out for us in workshops and performances, which I look forward to attend someday! And a super special thanks to our lovely Veena who has created such a positive environment, with quality guidence and dedication to all things that she also pours into this site daily. I just don't see how much of this discussion is amounting to any resolution. It also seems a bit disrespectful, overal, but mostly to Studioveena where we like to come to support one another. Amy, I really like your blog...this is a topic to continue in one of your discussions. Maybe then the anonymous people could feel more free to "let it out." ❤️
Parts of this discussion I think NEED to get out there. WE are the ones who are the supporters of competitions. Yes, it is the competitors who make the competition but it is the pole community that is buying tickets and merchandise and pumping money into NY. This is a competition that is supposed to be showing THE WORLD what the US has to offer when it comes to Pole Dance. If there indeed is favoritism and bending of rules and incorrect scoring then these issues need to be brought up and we need to stand united as we face the people who put these competitions on. We need to let them know that their name alone is no longer good enough, they need to back their name with their actions. As for the anonomyous messages, there are people who have competed in the past who have behind the scenes knowledge of things that have happened. They do not want to speak ill of any organization (so as not to be black listed) but at the same time they want to be heard. Amy stated that she would do something and even though she did not necessarily agree with a standpoint, she made a promise and kept that promise.....see what she did there? She gave her word and kept it.
Csedlak ·
Every competitor won their right to be where they are. Hard work, love and dedication :)
Csedlak ·
Every competitor won their right to be where they are. Hard work, love and dedication :)
Csedlak ·
Every competitor won their right to be where they are. Hard work, love and dedication :)
