Unethical competitions

amy started this discussion · 5/28/2012

People give blood, sweat and tears to submitting and competing. However, some of those competitions out there today, even the most popular, are run by unscrupulous organizations that show blatant favoritism and inconsistent applications of rules and regulations, creating an unfair and non-level competing playing field. Some issues are lack of transparency in submission criteria, accepting some submissions after the deadline has passed, a lack of transparency about how judging is scored, a lack of transparency on posted scores, and math errors in competitors scorecards. Do we continue to support those organizations? This is a conversation that needs to move from the shadows into public forums if we can hope to encourage change. Organizations need to be accountable for their actions to the members that they serve. I've started a conversation on Facebook here (add me as a friend if you haven't already): http://www.facebook.com/Aerialamyy/posts/218627184923619?ref=notif¬if_t=like ...but I think it's important to involve as many polers as possible in this discussion. What do you Svers think?

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110 replies

amy · 5/28/2012
I will add that I myself don't plan on entering competitions because it's simply not for me, but I see these issues affecting friends, peers, and those who I respect. So it becomes an issue that matters to me. If you have concerns that you don't feel comfortable posting, send me a message and I will post for you, anonymously.
amy · 5/28/2012
I am posting this on behalf of a member who would like to chime in but is concerned about openly expressing her opinion. "When USPDF started their competitions, the judges they used (some of which are still current judges) had almost zero pole experience. They were dancers. The scoring sheet they provided to the ladies competing was used as loose guidelines. They never posted scores or videos until JUST NOW. I am curious how a competition like this has such sway over our community. We have so many other competitions that have a better understanding of scoring criteria, provide scores, and allow videos to be posted on youtube. USPDF doesn't do that. In fact, when scores WERE provided last year, the scores were not added up correctly. I hate to do this because I know she is a "Pillar" of our pole community, but please watch this video with an unbiased eye. I would expect our USPDF winner to not fall out of poses and stumble to the next one, which is why I think this video has been kept locked in a box for the past 2 years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVF... I feel that if there was a competition that we were trying to use as a standard in the US, it would definitely not be this one. There needs to be a standard scoring system. We need judges that have a strong background in POLE DANCE. We need scores to be added correctly. We need our Judges to be Unbiased and they should not be able to accept competitors simply because they all dance at the same studio. Also, there were videos posted two days past the deadline, and this is Unacceptable she works with them at the same studio along with a couple other people that have placed in this comp in the past that may not have been properly placed simply because they are friends."
LillyBilly · 5/28/2012
Can't see the facebook discussion or youtube video...
LillyBilly · 5/28/2012
I think it's a site bug...
amy · 5/28/2012
The YouTube link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLVF2Q5lxGE&feature=youtube_gdata_player The Facebook link works if you are my friend. To add me go to my profile http://www.facebook.com/Aerialamyy
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Charley · 5/28/2012
So here is my open question to the community. What can be done if we feel that competitions are being run unethically? USPDF is not the only competition to come under scrutiny in the past with allegations of misdoings. What do we do about it? How do we solve the problem? I urge all dancers and hopeful competitors to do their research on an organization or organizer. Please get clear answers and criteria in advance of auditioning. It's important that we as pole dancers do not allow oursleves to be held "hostage" by organizations that are here to serve us. Organizations have to be responsible to US and answer to US if they want us to support their events financially. Organizers should be readily available to answer questions and provide those answers to the public no matter what kind of an event it is. I realize people are human and may miss some communication but when good questions are asked those answers need to be made public. I want to see clarity and transperancy. I never want to see a competitor accepted into a competition then later removed, I don't want to see what looks to be inconsistant behaviour and perhaps partiality towards certain competitors. i understand this is hard because we are such a small community and many of us are friends with organizers and judges but we must maintain some type of ethical behaviour. So many of us are so desperate to be accepted into a competition that we don't qualify the competition to see if it is the right thing for us. How many have tried out for a competition simply because it was accepting submissions without being clear as to what the competition is lookig for? I have. I tried out for a tricks competition with a dance video (lol!) Just because a comeptition exists doesn't mean it's the right competition for you. I will never be a mega trickster so competitions looking for someone like that are not cup a tea. Some comeptitions are looking for dancers, others looking for overall great performances with no weight on dance or tricks but an even scoring balance of the two. The community needs to find a balance. Organizers should be clear, prospective competitors have the burden of meeting criteria on time. We all need to be clear and fair with one another. If you miss a deadline and the organizer won't accept your entry - understand that and move on - don't argue. If you are an organizer with a deadline - enforce it and be sure that it is clearly stated for everyone to know what it is. If you are accepted into a competition you shouldn't be removed from it based on where you are employed. If you are putting on a competition be clear about the requirements and competitors study and read those requirements, ask questions when you aren't sure, don't assume anything. Organizers - please respond to questions in a timely fashion, specifically questions that could effect the outcome of either the selection process or winner of a competition. Prospective competitors - don't get upset and bitter against an organization because you weren't chosen. Everyone needs to be treated equally whether you are Felix Cane or a newbie pole dancer who had your first lesson today. I see so much drama surrounding the idea of comeptitions. Those who submit get upset when they weren't chosen, sometimes people try to barter for an extension on their submission, etc, etc, etc. I see comeptitions that are surrounded with allegations of things like mistreatment of comepetitors to unfair scoring to special favor being given to certain prospective competitors. It all has to stop but I have no solutions. It makes me really sad.
LillyBilly · 5/28/2012
Lol! I see bugs everywhere :) Sorry, webmaster!
Dayanara · 5/28/2012
It is a tough question, trying to boycott these competitions would only divide the community more, they still have friends and other polers that want to participate. Maybe if there is a letter directed to the organizers, with many many signatures from pole dancers, studio owners, etc. asking the key questions, bringing up the all the ethical concerns, asking for clear answers and a transparent competition, maybe they will come forward and work towards fixing these problems? At some point the pole community has to stop taking this organization seriously, they have instructors that work in their studio competing, that right there is a big red flag, the host studio/organization should NOT let their employees enter the competition, that's just not right, at some point the titles given in these competitions have to stop meaning anything.
Black Orchid · 5/28/2012
I find this discussion very interesting. I am planning on entering a couple of competitions, with misgivings about one but just hoping for the best because it might still be a good entree for me into the world of pole comp. I didn't know there were all these issues around USPDF. It's a shame because even with all the drama, people are on tenterhooks about who's gotten accepted and there is definite cachet to winning a title here, more than any pole comp. that I know of right now. All I can say is that now that the comp is three(?) years old maybe the organisers can step back to hear this feedback to clean up the confusion over deadlines and make their judging process more transparent. I have noticed that they have been posting a lot about what they are looking for technically on their FB page along with videos to help that out. But I guess the question about who the judges are and how they are judging remains an issue. As for the video that was linked to, yes I noticed the couple of fumbles but I thought it was a theatrical and powerful performance. Without knowing how everyone else was scored in the compulsory & performance rounds, I bet it was a combo of how charismatic that routine was PLUS whatever happens in the moment in a comp. I watched a totally different comp. last year and I know several women who I expected to place that didn't...because they fumbled their compulsory round and these are technically amazing tricksters. I agree that as consumers of the pole culture we should be empowered to step away from unhealthy practices wherever they are. SO we should do our research before deciding to support a competition with our blood, sweat, tears, time and money. I'm just not sure all of our decisions will be the same ones.
Kira · 5/28/2012
I'm a rookie at competitions - I've done 4 and already I've been put down and out by these competitions - ranging from rubbish venue/pole safety procedures, inadequate care for competitors, host not knowing who's performing next and the list goes on. I've heard a lot of rumours of winners being rigged because a sponser wants that person to advertise their brand because they have the right look or do the right tricks. But this is all from what my peers say to me and teachers/polers I respect and I struggle to keep track of which competition is actually 'safe' to enter and what isn't as there seems to be a brand new competition every month. Tbh I don't have a clue how this can all be governed or regulated, everything is a shambles right now. Even competitions with all the independent groups that claim to unify all pole schools, provide universal pole move names and etcetc. are rubbish, it seems to be another 'badge' for organisers of crap competitions to stick on their posters and hide behind. Maybe there could be a handbook for those that want to host/organise their own competition - recommended audition stages, how many competitors to allow (I was in 1 where there were 5 beginners, 5 intermediates and 25 advanced competitors...) and a concise score sheet depending on what type of competiton it is (tricks based, dance based etc). But... yeah, can't see everyone agreeing to being told how to run a competition.
Rena LadyBug · 5/28/2012
Last year I was HIGHLY disappointed w/ USPDF and decided I would no longer support them. I'll support the competitors and wish them all well, but I wont give USPDF another dime!! Even if that means I dont go to the competitions that I'd love to see, or go to workshops where USPDF is hosting them. One of my biggest problems (up until recently) was the conflict of interest w/ the judges. I would think the judges would be willing to take a step back and allowing others to judge who are not affiliated w/ their studio so their students and instructors can compete without the drama. I had a hard time understanding how some of the girls were picked to be top 3 over some of the others. I had seen errors and sloppiness and when I questioned it someone told me she had done a lot of hard tricks... Um I don't care how hard the tricks are, if they are not executed properly then what is the point of doing them? I understand you will run into grip issues and what not, but when you allow one to make these errors while others performed equally hard tricks w/o flaws it just doesn't seem fair? Or if someone has a flawless basic routine and places over someone who had a flawless difficult routine? Maybe it's me, but I don't see the logic in the judging, it seems like it is just personal opinion! I would LOVE for there to be a set bases on which it was judged, heck even if there is a set # of points based on stage presence/karisma (sp?)... But then again this year I was reminded of why I have issues w/ this organization!!! Seeing how applicants were allowed to submit after the deadline and were even accepted is 100% unacceptable!!
Kobajo84 · 5/28/2012
I'd just like to know- when did we start validating our worth by competitions? There are plenty of really good dancers out there that don't compete. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that competitions in the pole community define a dancer and their success. I don't care how many titles or competitions someone has won. It means nothing to me other than a fun event that person choose to participate in. You choose to be in a competition or you don't. I think if you're choosing to compete you need to educate yourself and be aware of what you're getting yourself into. Big name competitions are nothing more than just a show. You're going there to perform/watch performers- expect to see a good show. Notoriety sells tickets and fills the empty seats. I think if people are going to be that upset over what competitions and their organizations have become in the community, they should realize it's only worth how much attention/power you give it. The drama stopped being entertaining a long time ago when it comes to controversial issues within the community. I personally don't support any of the hoopla in the community. I don't have the time nor do I have the patience to be bothered by it anymore.
amy · 5/28/2012
Koba, I respect your opinion but the events around us shape our community and whether or not I personally enter a competition, they impact the lives of those around us and those we care about. Without judging those who want to be in a competition, or what their motives are, they are not at fault nor should they be penalized for the lack of integrity in competitions now. A lot of people say that they don't like politics or the drama of elections, so they don't vote. Those people HURT our country. Ignorance, for me, is not bliss. I want things to change for the better for everyone in pole, and I don't want to sit by while things like this happen. I just cant stomach that. It may be drama to some but the first step in creating REAL change are these open conversations and discussions about what is wrong. So many new pole dancers don't know anything about these problems and they are disillusioned when they are exposed to it. We need to change this or we will all have to deal with it, continually.
FreeTheSun · 5/28/2012
These same comments can be (and have been) voiced about tons of competitions worldwide. MPD Australia is one that I know of for sure. It's a Bobbi's Studio production through and through. Other studios can and do compete but there is a lot of drama surrounding it as well about favoratism (yes, all their instructors compete, I think I recall hearing it was required as part of their employment, and, thus far, first place has always gone to one of their instructors) and biased judging criteria, etc. Does it mean I don't enjoy MPD Oz? No, but people have to remember that competitions organized and run by someone(s) with a studio will always have some bias, regardless of how much they try to avoid it. The only way not to have bias is to have no studio run it, but whose going to offer to do that whose not affiliated with a studio since most competitions aren't big money makers. Plus, what studio would be willing to run a comp and ban their instructors from competeting. Competeting (and winning) instructors build names for themselves, which makes more people aware of the studio, which brings in more students. In the case of qualified judges. With pole being an organized activity for such a short time, finding qualified judges is hard. Now, not as hard, but still not easy (especially if you're trying to avoid bias). As several people have said, it's important to do your research when going for a competition about the criteria, their policies, potential negatives you have to just accept if you agree to support that competition through entering or attending Just because a competition exists and is a "big name" doesn't mean it's right for you as a viewer or competitor.
aliceBheartless · 5/28/2012
I think it gets frustrating for people because when we say educate yourself about the competition, there is no way to educate yourself for bias. Know that it's there, but nowhere in any competition's requirements/rules/application does it say "don't worry about making our deadlines, ignore our submittal requirements, our judges only want to see (fill in the blank)" etc. I know it has been said that this is swept under the rug in lots of competitions, but that shouldn't mean that we as a community should be ok with that. I think this is a chance to work for positive change. It should not be chance to belittle, attack, etc organizations or competitors. I think we all understand that. Because this does affect the pole community at large. Especially in the sense of it being more accessible to those outside the community AND each and every bid to make pole seen as a sport on the global stage, whether that's a personal goal for anyone, or not.
Mary Ellyn · 5/28/2012
Not certain I should get involved in this discussion since I organize a competition myself but...I am going to say a few things because, in the interest of being open and transparent, I AM open to people discussing any concerns they have with me about my event. For those who don't know me well - I have never been a fan of the concept of competing because I feel that competitions are all about the "me" and not about the "us". Strangely I was convinced to run the Midwest Competition - which this year we are also hosting the North American Championships. There was a huge discussion among a number of people on Facebook a couple of weeks ago about unethical competitions and organizers. This IS going to happen within any industry. But the problem CONTINUES because people continue to enter the competitions. It really isn't our responsibility to support or not support the competitions or the organizers or the comeptitors themselves. The buck stops with those who enter the competitions and the showcases. It is up to the community to not enter competitions just because they feel they have no other means to showcase their skills or to experience a competition. If you want things to change, stop participating and just wait it out until the right event comes along or organize one yourself. FYI: People ARE listening, even if you don't hear about it - yet! You will all be seeing information soon about a large group of people in the pole community who are starting the ground work to set standards within the community for competitions. However, no one can stop anyone else from forming competitions if they don't want to adhere to the recommended standards. So again - it's up to the community to enter or not enter such events.
chemgoddess1 · 5/28/2012
Look a few threads down regarding the Alethea DVDs that just hit and then ask again WHY people enter contests. I personally have a Karol tshirt and an Alethea hoodie. We all knew who Karol was because of youtube but NO ONE knew who Alethea was before that first USPDF competition. Are they making a lot of money touring? Probably not but there IS money involved. If either of them had not placed would you buy their merchandise? Would you book a workshop? At this point in the game it is branding your name and USPDF is probably the most known competition in the US. I have heard things about different competitions. No competition is going to be perfect, but what makes one stand above the other is taking that criticism and using it to grow instead of using it to tear the community apart. We may not have the big name studios but I think the Midwest has the most ethically run competition.
amy · 5/28/2012
I am posting this on behalf of someone who would like to remain anonymous. "Awhile back Alethea Austin took it upon herself to write a scathing review of Platinum Stages's Star Stand Alone Pole because she is a voice in the community that will be listened to. The Pro's have leverage int he community and if a pro wants to speak for "us" then she should do so in this matter as well. Instead of worrying about her 2nd Championship title why doesn't she put her money where her mouth is and speak up for those who have been done wrong by the USPDF. Extending a deadline but not publicly announcing is not fair. Allowing LATE entries into a highly respected competition is unfair to those who followed the rules by either submitting on time or not submitting at all. If these Pro's want to be pillars in our community they they also should serve our community and make the USPDF do what is right even if that means dropping out. If enough Pro's made a statement we would all be heard as we were in the Platinum Stages debacle. This community should not support leaders who support unscrupulous tactics and nepotism in competitions. Not only should we boycott the competition, we should boycott those who support by competing in it. There are those in the community who would relinquish their coveted spot to do the right thing. If pro's want our money they should respect us and stand up for us. We should not continue to support anyone involved in this kind of unfairness, it speaks volumes about their ethics and how they feel about us as a community. We should be seen as dancer's and people not dollar bills."
Porshka · 5/29/2012
Amy, I am just wondering, is someone else actually writing this, and you are just letting them post it under your ID, or are these words yours and you are saying them but because you want to stand up for them (so to speak)? Is the other party also on this site?
LizzyLiz810 · 5/29/2012
I am wondering why soooo many people submitted past the deadline? Do they not respect the rules or fellow entrants? Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions. Uspdf should stick to their guns and make no exceptions, and the polers should respect the deadline. Everyone had months to submit. Why people wait till the very last second is strange to me...both parties are wrong!!
chemgoddess1 · 5/29/2012
As to the not submitting early part, I can kind of see that because you don't necessarily want other competitors seeing what you submitted and possibly trying to out do you. It is just a twisted view but this is probably the reason. As for the rules, USPDF did not have the time actually in the submission rules section. It was posted as a response when somone asked a question on the site and then in subsequent requests for clarification they never responded. Here is a link to the guidelines:http://uspoledance.com/?page_id=340 Here is the info for the submission dates. http://uspoledance.com/?p=1268#comments And Porshka, Amy wrote this at the beginning: If you have concerns that you don't feel comfortable posting, send me a message and I will post for you, anonymously.
USPDFCompetition GuidelinesWho can apply? If you are a pole dancer interested in competing, please read the information below as it applies to all USPDF competit
amy · 5/29/2012
Porshka, that is the opinion of someone who is a member of this site, not mine. She asked me to post it anonymously, so I did.
Csedlak · 5/29/2012
I am sad to hear this! :( I do have to give a shoutout to pacific pole championships created by bj pettigrew and Amy guion. That was a competition executed amazingly and had a fair judging system in place with legitimate pole dancers as judges.
Csedlak · 5/29/2012
I am sad to hear this! :( I do have to give a shoutout to pacific pole championships created by bj pettigrew and Amy guion. That was a competition executed amazingly and had a fair judging system in place with legitimate pole dancers as judges.
Mary Ellyn · 5/29/2012
I'd like to point out that the Pole Dance Community has a set of standards - or Code of Conduct as we call it - for events which includes competitions: http://www.poledancecommunity.com/join-us/codes-of-conduct Any PDC approved event must comply with the code of conduct. This doesn't mean that events which are NOT PDC approved are not ethical but this is a place for people to start. The thing is there is no requirement for any competition or event organizer to follow any guidelines or criteria. However, when the pole community in general supports groups like this they grow and have more influence in the community.

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