Talk to me about hyper elasticity and pole.
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Veena ·
I have to watch my elbows :)
The elbow hyperextension seems really common (among women), I've got them as well. Didn't know it was due to the bones, so thanks Jackie C for the info. I've not experienced any trouble with them during my 5 years of training.
Thanks Korinne for posting that article, my doc wrote it but I had never read it! The reason I was diagnosed with EDS was due to (what I thought at the time) were unrelated issues - I often had "blackouts" when I stood up, even to the point of fainting. Testing for that led to a 'tilt table test' where I tested positive for Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, a condition where my heart rate would pound to compensate for a dramatic drop in my blood pressure when I stood up. Sooooo, to try to find out WHY I had that, I kept coming across EDS. I found this chart pictured here: http://www.physio-pedia.com/Beighton_score and I realized I could do all the things in the picture. Thumbs to wrist, knees bend back, elbow bend back, could touch floor with my palms with straight legs, pinkies bend back more than 90 degrees. Seeing that convinced me i had EDS, so I found a specialist, Dr. Howard Levy, and he confirmed the diagnosis. As a fitness instructor, remember that you cannot really look for it in your students or diagnose anything. Your responsibility is to make sure that your students are not progressing to weight bearing exercise before they have built the strength for them ie. they are in the appropriate level class. That you keep joints in their proper range of motion (no hyperflexing or hyperextending) and that you include the proper conditioning exercises in class so they build strength. You should also repeat ad-nauseum that if your students feel pain, they need to STOP whatever it is that is causing the pain and don't let them back into the studio until they get medical clearance.
I could never dx anyone, but i was wondering--bc cleo was mentioned in this thread and she is known for her extreme flexxy--that when watching videos of polers what one might notice that could point to EDS or hypermobility. Basically, what goes beyond the range of just having worked damn hard for flexibility into what most of us could never aspire to (or should aspire to) :)
Kind of off topic kind of not... I think Cleo said she didn't get her splits until she was almost 30 years old? I think I heard her say that somewhere. But yes, she is freakishly flexible. so weird seeing pictures of her in a straddle on her back where her legs are touching the floor behind her. someone posted a pic of that on another thread here. Okay sorry to digress..
Dont ever be afraid of your body's skills. Everything is a gift if you just learn how to read and work it to get the most of it. Dont let fear drive, and anything can lead you to be limitless. Anything! Flexibility has literally saved my life many times! I have had serious accidents in the past... Once, a car hit my car from behind and threw me 20 m away. Total loss in both cars. My neck curvature ended up all backwards. 2 vertebra misplaced and rotated. .... I only found out 10 days after the accident. I am super grateful to my body, it is my best friend, we get the perfect interaction. I am always comfortable and I Never hurt myself. Today I shared a vídeo of a 80 years old lady dancing and impressing everyone with crazy moves! It should be a crime to tell someone they cant do something.... We only have the limitations we think we do.... Dont see anything as an obstacle. I am 100% sure that once people realize that this is The only thing that takes to be limitless they will actually be limitless.
Just to be clear...I'm not telling anyone they 'can't' do something. But I *know* that there are moves MY body just isn't capable of, no matter how much I would like to.
Kobajo84 ·
I recently encountered a student that has hypermobility/hyperextension on the joints. I did quite a bit of research and since I was unsuccessful in finding any information on the topic in the pole industry, I decided to write a blog about this topic. Since this encounter, I have had several other students in my classes where I have noticed joint hyperextension- most commonly in the elbows. I have found my increased awareness of this issue to be crucial in my teaching as I encourage students to not lock their joints into the hypermobile state. So far, all the students have been aware of their hypermobility and my reminders have been welcomed. I've even had a couple students tell me they know not to lock out but keep forgetting. Here's my blog piece I wrote about the topic: http://www.poleharmony.com/joint-hyperextension-and-pole-fitness/
I think that even if someone have EDS, they may have to work for splits anyway. I don't know if Cleo even has it (it's just that "natural frontbender" rings through my head every time I see her perform), but maybe she started training close to 30 years old?
Bumping thread cos found this handy sports physio article http://thesportsphysio.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/hypermobility-and-sport/ Also to say I did yoga today and there was an instructor in the class who was hypermobile herself and gave me some good tips as one hypermobile person to another: Work within the normal range of motion for a normal/beginner person, never at your max extension, especially when inverting or doing 'bound' moves ( in pole this would be flexy moves or TG etc where you're out of natural body alignment) Rather than push out and into a move, try to find the correct position and then close in on the move by firmly supporting yourself in it with awareness of all your body parts working harmoniously and powerfully together. Try to think about opening the body and enfolding into a move - creating space and gentle strength in the muscles instead of stretching, hanging, forcing or flopping. Use breath work to control and stay steady and strong. If in doubt go slow, slow, slower leaving yourself room to deepen the move after a few breaths. Never push straight into full extension: work at 60% of where you could go and with perfect form, breathe into 75%, hold it with 100% attention.
I've run into that Beighton scoring before, and I must say that I don't think they have thougth through the first one of the tests. Why? Because: 1) This position is a common stretch and can be easily improved by yoga or stretches that dancers do (while for example no one sits there training their fingers and elbows to bend back or hyperextend more). 2) Some of you may already know what I'm going to say if you've seen what I've been posting lately, because here we go again with the anthropometric dependencies. I'm not by any means rejecting the whole test, but I think there seems to be some room for improvement.
Agreed. It's a basic dancer stretch. Well, a basic fitness stretch, touching toes. Beighton test is really a first point of call for general practitioners with 10 mins to assess patients though I think. For most people coming to a dr complaining of joint pain in a surgery a quick 'can you put palms to floor with straight legs' would be a challenge and combined with the other tests could give a GP an idea... Having said that no GP has ever considered hypermobility when I've presented with joint pain or injury. I always have to tell them then self-refer to a physio or sports osteo.
this is a REALLY great site, and this article is specifically on training with hypermobility. the site is for yoga, but the info transfers really well and this article is particularly good. Kind of dense, but worth checking out http://www.dailybandha.com/2013/11/preventing-yoga-injuries-vs-preventing_19.html and kudos to your yoga teacher Tropicalpole! hold on to that one, instructors like that can be hard to find!
MD5677 ·
OMG!!! I am almost speechless. I have been trying to figure out my situation since i started poling. Tonight I was in near tears after class bc I thought I was just not working hard enough. I can't believe I found this thread. I blew out my elbows the first week of poling nearly 7 months ago training with instructors who cared more about the tricks than correct form or strength training. Yesterday I was even considering surgery to get them back to not hurting. I nearly killed my rotator cuff trying to get a basic invert this week. I have hyperextended joints, mostly elbow and shoulder, but I never connected the dots. I did see a sports dr. When I first hurt my elbows. When I told him how I hurt them he laughed and made some crude reference to my age (50s) and keeping his daughter off the stripper pole. Needless to say it was not a good experience and since then have not wanted to go back. Now that I know I am not crazy, I am going to figure out next steps and go from there. Thanks so much guys, I feel soooooooooooooo much better.
grayeyes ·
I think your next step is to find a new doctor. What a jackass. I find that the people who respond crudely or are embarrassed when I tell them I pole dance reveal much more about themselves than I have revealed by telling them I pole dance. Good luck!
Hi MD5677, I see you are in Maryland. I live here too and I was diagnosed by Dr. Howard Levy at Johns Hopkins Greenspring Station, he is a specialist in EDS. He knows I pole dance and he was professional about it. He was protective of me actually and asked if I minded if he wrote it up for my permanent medical records. He wrote it up as "vigorous dance" in his notes instead of pole dance. You could also go see Dr. Clare Francomono at GBMC. She is one of the world leaders in EDS. She taught Dr. Levy. In fact she is creating a special EDS center at GBMC for people to come to from around the world. I was diagnosed at 40 which is not uncommon. Most doctors don't know anything about it. Every EDS person I know has a story about delayed diagnosis and insensitive doctors. The only reason I was diagnosed was because I did a lot of research and I didn't give up. If you feel like something is wrong with you, keep fighting for answers.
MD5677 ·
Thanks Angel. Checking into Dr. Clare. GBMC is not far so I am hoping to get in soon.
