Jacki C started this discussion ·
I have a new student who has hyper elasticity. For example, she can bend her finger most of the way back. I don't want her to hurt herself because obviously pole places pressure on and stretches joints and I don't want her to stretch joints that aren't ready to be stretched to certain angles. Anyone have any experience either with a student or with themselves?
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Amani ·
The unfortunate truth about her condition is that she is likely at much increased risk for multiple injuries due to the hypermobility. She should really speak to a sports medicine or orthopedic physician to get some guidance. Each person is different but odds are this might not be the hobby for her. Her physician will be able to determine if this is true for her individual case after an exam. I would caution her about proceeding with pole without seeking the advice of a physician.
It sounds like a typical trait of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. Or some other connective tissue disorder. One of my online pole buddies seems to have it, and seriously, she poles like no other. How it will be for your student I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it has to be a stopper. I've not discussed the issue with my friend, but I've never heard her complain about her obvious hypermobility. From what I've understood EDS-people are often forward bendy, like for example extra good at straddles, feet behind head (or even back!)poses, front splits (when taking advantage of the flexibility they have in the back of their legs). EDS can also come with heavy bruising and a so called "stretchy skin". But not everyone have these all features. The forward bendyness has sometimes made me think of Cleo. I understand that she has practised like hell, but still there seems to be something extra, judging from her jades, straddles and bow and arrows (not the pole move, but the standing split where one leg is supposed to be behind the shoulder). Well, I don't know!
korinne ·
Typically when someone is hyperflexible, they will be more prone to injuries. One way to prevent injuries in a hyperextensible joint is to build up muscle strength around the joint to stabilize where collagen isn't doing its job. This requires almost constant conscious thought about engaging the muscles around the joint until it becomes habit. If she's willing to do that...why not. If she really does have Ehlers-Danlos, I would say get checked out for other manifestations of Ehlers-Danlos (They're more prone to hemorrhagic strokes). If everything checks out, go for it!
Yes, this is most likely Ehlers-Danlos. She should honestly get tested. For $99 she can get a dna test with 23andme.com and get the results analyzed for $5 at https://promethease.com/ondemandlicense This is a collagen disorder that will make her more prone to injury. She will need to be extra careful and should do specific exercises to strengthen the supporting muscles of her joints, ESPECIALLY her shoulders and elbows. I just recently found out that I am a carrier of EDS4, which is the scarier one (vascular). I am having to get more testing done soon to see if I have it or not. I do get injured very easily, bruise easily, somewhat elastic skin etc as well. So I have been doing a tone of research into this.
Veena ·
What they all said! :)
I have hypermobility, bruise easily and am very flexible which everyone thinks is marvellous but it isn't - pain and injury are constant concerns. What she needs to massively focus on is strength training. Slowly and devotedly building solid core strength especially and strength generally everywhere else - even the small forearm muscles, hand muscles, the lot. Think slow, slow, solid, perfect form. Pilates. Understanding what she is doing and holding it, isometric work. Slow pull ups on pole. Controlled straddle headstands. Slow spin in pencil. Diamond push ups. Etc.
I would love to hear anybody's input about hyper mobile scapula and elbows. I have both. My scapula really protrude! It looks almost disturbing. No amount of strengthening exercises will get rid of this physical appearance and I feel it makes my upper body at a disadvantage. Pull ups, etc feel impossible. I feel like I have to work hard for little gain. Spins and climbs felt very dangerous at times although it has gotten better. My scapula are lose yet my shoulders are tight . Tight from poling! Hah! My elbows rotate in ways that just look like they are broken and sometimes it feels futile to fight their un-natural-looking rotation. I feel that my scapula will never look normal (neutral). And maybe that will never happen with my body even though they engaged. My wrists are bendy too! These things have really been obstacles for me. I wish I had some of that hyper mobility on my hip flexors!! Also my lower back is very bendy but I don't allow myself to bend too much until I am stronger. I know my lower back is more flexible but I don't have strength to safely support it right now. The scapula thing pisses me off to know end. Interesting that someone mentioned the bruising. I have horrible bruising . More than everyone else at my studio and I wonder if something else is going on sometimes. I was evenore flexible as a child and dislocated my shoulder a couple of times . One time I dislocated by throwing a baseball to my brother! Another time from wearing my backpack at school. Just weird!
I have hyper extend elbows (that's the only thing if affects) and the only thing I have found to help is lots of conditioning moves before I ever attempt a move! And just being extra aware of not locking arms out. 8 months on and its becoming a lot easier and second nature to do where at first i was VERY aware and was always on my mind - Something that helped me also is video and making sure the arms/hands are correctly placed and at a safe angle. Its far from perfect but i think if im aware it will help prevent at least some injury. And touch a BIG bit of wood all good so far. Quick question too would an elbow support help and make it safer or would it make me lazy and rely on that to help give it support?
Veena has 4 exercises every pole dancer should know on youtube and on here and they were brilliant for awareness of my scapula, I frequently dislocate my shoulders (and pop the joint back in myself :-/. ) but since going those exercises I am much stronger and more aware. Also boringly doing pull ups on pole and tucks on pole and pencil spin. Really thinking about my body, pulling up pelvic floor, zipping core, imagining my scapula are huge angel wings which I need to fold in. Working both sides, starting with just a few reps. It has made me so much safer - instead of 'bending' my way out of trouble or collapsing into a muscle-stressing, joint-yanking heap I can control my ascent, descent and keep my position. Re elbow support: if it makes you more aware of the need to be careful and not lock out and hyperextend I would wear one. Disclaimer - am not medic just hypermobile ex dancer with interest in injury avoidance!
Oops here are Veena's fab exercises for scapula area http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ3V_2DsxgE
@lilred I ran into this article on the bruising and redheads http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1351323/ Maybe you should be checked regarding the dislocations and the scapula?
Thanks Lina! I've always heard that redheads bruise easily. Damnit! I always hoped it was just a myth . :)
I have EDS- hypermobility type. My fingers bend all the way back, my thumbs can touch the inside of my wrist, and on and on. Every joint of my body tested outside the average norm. I also have stretchy skin, POTS, low blood pressure, orthostatic intolerance, and chronic fatigue. I am lucky to see one of the world experts, Dr. Howard Levy, at Johns Hopkins near my home. He has been and always will be adamantly against me pole dancing. Every time I see him, he reminds me to "tone" my body rather than do any weight bearing exercise. I did end up tearing my forearm extensor tendon by 50% which kept me from extreme poling for at least 8 months. After that healed, I ended up tearing 3 of the 4 rotator cuff muscles completely in half. I had to have a massive rotator cuff repair. That was a brutal injury. There are a lot of successful pole dancers whom I suspect have some degree of EDS. You can tell once you know what to look for. I would caution your student to see a physician who actually knows something about EDS. It took me 20 years to get a firm diagnosis because many doctors are limited in their understanding of this condition. And even after I found a doctor, I continued to pole against doctor recommendations thinking that because I was careful and strong as well as conditioned that I would be immune. I thought my doc was ridiculous to tell me to tone with 1-2 lb weights when I knew I could lift 100 pounds, so I ignored him. Look where that got me... At the very least, get your girl to sign a release.
Wow, I have never heard of this. What are things to look for in students, how common is it, and who are some of the well known pole dancers that have it? Fascinating.....
I did a split grip handsping filmed it from a diffent angle and it seems worse then ever the hyper extendness. Just when I thought I got it 'sorted'. This is a gogle image of a hyper extended elbow I will attach. Mine looks just like it. Easy way to tell is get them to put their arms straight out infront of them.
I look for hyperextended elbows, and if that's a sign of EDS it doesn't mean that it IS, right? Or do you have EDS, megsmith? What are other things to look for besides elbows & scapula?
Sparrow I don't know much about eds, but you are right. Hyperextended elbows alone, are not a sign of EDS. I know I don't have eds , I am just hyper mobile in certain areas. Maybe someone here has it and can tell us more. :)
Oh, angel just said she has it! I didn't read that. This is all very interesting.
You can be hypermobile without having EDS; lots of dancers and gymnasts are. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/joint-hypermobility/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Nope i have not got EDS - I Just have very hyperelastic eblows. Sorry i presumed sparrow ment how do you tell if you are hype mobile not if you have EDS - i guess only a doctor can tell you that part :-) will upload a clip of my handspring in a min so you can see what it not ment to look like on a pole :-/
No probs, meg...just realized I did not specify what I was referring to, lol. Sorry for your issues :(
korinne ·
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1279/?report=reader A very thorough description of EDS and diagnosis. Pg 18-19 really talks about management.
should also say mine has never once hurt or been any problem at all BUT i just want to make sure it stays that way :-)
https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/535d3b50-dc50-48d1-b36c-546c0a9aa0eb there is the vid :-/ be kind haha!!
Jacki C ·
Thank you everyone for your input! This is great because when I googled hyper elasticity and pole nothing useful came up. As far as having a hyper extending elbow goes, I have one. From my forensic anthropology studies I can tell you that it could also be a skeletal structural issue as well as a connective tissue issue. It is more common in females and is due to a notch in the humerus that the ulna rests in when your arms are extended. If that notch is extra deep or is actually a hole that goes all the way through your arm will hyperextend. So there is that as well to consider for those of us that have hyper extending elbows but are otherwise not very flexible. Like me, ha ha. So we elbow hyperextenders should never, ever lock our elbows because the lines of force don't line up through the lower and upper arm. At all. The angles are more pronounced than those whose elbows don't hyper extend and puts us at high risk of ripping the elbow apart when we are bearing weight on it. Thank you again Veena family for all the info as I had no idea about EDS before this tread. :)
