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Pole dancing in the Olympics
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https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_heart1.gif thank you Runemist, you managed to express my thoughts better than I did 😉
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Sanchara…thank you for your input. I cannot say who designed the website as I was not involved in that but since we are a non-profit organization, and so far everything and all time is coming out of our own pockets, I'm guessing we did not pay a professional to design the site.
Both of your suggestions are already a part of the framework we have started in our guidelines: props will not be allowed and we are developing specific guidelines about costumes (uniforms) and that includes skin coverage.
Runemist – Yes we do foresee that some day this sport may well be taken over by those who began training at a young age just as many of the gymnastics events currently have evolved but I don't understand your questioning how we feel about these "children" training to do sexual/sensual moves since we are pretty clear that this will not be a sensual but an athletic performance just as all other gymnastics are.
We do not expect to see hip circles, grinding, body waves, etc. in these events and in fact there will likely be prohibited moves.
Will some perverts still associate this with sexuality? I'm sure they will but sadly there are perverts who associate EVERYTHING with sex including the young girls figure skating and doing floor and rhythmic gymnastics in leotards.
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I forgot to add further thoughts:
The splay legged moves are included in all these other gymnastics (and the same perverts view it they way they wish to) but it doesn't mean that the moves are sexual.
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As a serious ex gymnast I am torn…on one hand I love the idea of and the passion in the attempt to have pole dancing accepted into the Olympics however for me the whole issue is about passion. And let's be real if this does work out it will NOT be pole dancing as most think of it currently. To me the beauty of pole dancing is the passion, the sensuality AND the athleticism. The only way it will ever be accepted is to become sanitized and just another gymnastics event. So then – for me at least – really what's the point…you lose the beauty – you lose the passion and you end up with just another gymnastics event (vertical/aerial bar or whatever), with a bunch of 13 year olds competing. Not really interested in another gymnastics event in the Olympics – but in all fairness, I was, and am still against Rhythmic Gymnastics in the Olympics as well.
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persoanlly I can't see Pole Sport ever becoming an early specialzation sport like women's artistic gymnastics becuse the strength and complexity components. I think it will most likely remain a late development sport like Equestrian Vaulting or Men's gymnastics where the bulk of the elite level competitors are in their 20s. Even in RG those at the olympics are in the 17 – 26 range. I don't really see any reason what younger athletes could not train in it though. And I have felt for a long time the at slutty side of pole dance needs to go. Now that's not to say a routein can't have a certian aspect of sensuality to it. Look at the woman who was silver at Worlds this year. I think there was something really beautiful and sexy about her tango routeine…but it was subtle and that's what made it sexy rather than skanky.
Empyrean. Don't worry about it if I knew who to get in touch with I would volonteer my time but I don't so…yea…(That kind of thing is what I do for a living – I especially like building sites for things I am interested in. I'm actually finishing the last touches on the new look for our vaulting NF's website today.)
I have a question, are the international rules going to be made public like the FEI and FIG have done? becuse I feel that that gives the IF a certian appearance of accountability (that is 100% personal opionion tho)
I really wish I could be more involved. This is such a pivotal and exciting time for our sport but with everything I'm already involved with in the Vaulting world there just isn't any room left on my plate. 🙁
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The founders of this sport are strippers, and we shouldn't ever forget that. Working in a strip club is the equivalent of working construction as a man–it's backbreaking and thankless. Legitimizing the sport is all well and good, but I don't think we should ever try to erase the sensual roots of this sport, which was developed by women working tough jobs who were villified (and still are) for working those jobs.
Wherever we end, we should remember where we started.
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As both a pole dance instructor and as a member of of the IPSF I don't want, nor do I need, pole dancing to be "accepted" by anyone.
In fact I'd probably be a bit disappointed if the sensual aspect of pole dancing was "accepted" by everyone! At least no more so than to recognize that I have a right to do things and enjoy myself in any way which does not harm another human being.
But then again, those of us who are actually working to get pole sports in the Olympics see it as pole sports not pole dancing and it's just another sport.
Sanchara…too bad you don't have time to volunteer. We need more help. We've not made final decisions but based upon others on the committee and our current opinions I'm guessing we will publicly list rules and guidelines when they are finished….which is still a long ways off.
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I hope you didn't think that I was complaining about the sensuallity – what I have a hard time digesting is the sensationalizim – I think compeititon should be about who can do bigger skills and cleaner routeins not about who can take their clothes off the best. My all time favortite routein is Felix's Guns and Roses one from worlds 2009. I just wish it were a little more subtle….more godess less street corner if you catch my drift. But I agree – what rec folks do in their living rooms has nothing to do with what the elite atthletes do at interntional compeitions.
Something like a website that's a one-time thing with a little maintence here and there I can handel. 🙂 'sides it would be fun. But I don't think being involved on a deeper level would be a good idea considering I don't compete nor can I see myself being at that level any time soon….
Aerial – Rhythmic Gymnastics belive it or not came from one woman who danced with scarves to entertain men – now she did it wearing clothes – but the sport has done everything it can to forget that passed. that dosn't mean there aren't still women who dance with scarves out there….they just can't call themselves Rythmic Gymnasts.
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I'm not really worried about rhythmic gymnastics–that's already been killed. We're talking about pole dancing, and I'm worried about sports officials and gymnasts appropriating the moves and setting standards without giving credit where credit is due.
Distinguishing between what is "goddess" and "street corner" is a little tougher than simply deciding what you think–once you begin trying to pin down a sport that leaves so much room for interpretation, it is bound to suffer. Not in the hands of its true advocates, of course, but in the hands of those who feel it needs to be "cleaned up" for the masses.
I will never watch pole in the Olympics if it's simply a bunch of women pulling off tricks, and I will never stop getting the message out that we came from strip tease, and there's nothing wrong with strip tease. People can change it all they like and try to hide behind a set of standardizations so they won't feel queasy about seeing a little skin, but that belies years of hard work by underrepresented women in the sex industry. I guess each side will have to continue pretending the other doesn't exist–as I've unfortunately seen all too often in the pole-dancing world.
Pole-dancing is at its heart an expression of strength and femininity, but it is also a rebellion against social norms and an attempt to gain control over our own sexuality. Without that uneasy alliance, I agree that pole-dancing could be just a sport. 😉
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I'm not embarrassed about the "roots" of pole dance and I hope everyone isn't trying to legitimize it by "sporting" it up. I can appreciate the athletic aspect of it that has its own appeal….but my PERSONAL passion for pole comes from the expression and art that can be created between the dancer and the pole. I am woman, I am sexy, and I am not ashamed https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_queen.gif If pole is ever an Olympic sport it will not be the pole dance I love, but rather a vertical bar placed in with other gymnastics type apparatuses, The thought of that doesn't thrill me.
Oh one other thing, I don't think of splayed legs as sexual….in my mind its just a variation of splits that's all. BUT…You can add things like lyrics or the tone of the overall performance and that could make it more sexual. I also don't think there is anything wrong with my boys also having fun on the pole. It is what you make it. I could make a chair seem pretty damn DIRTY but its still just a chair! hehe!!
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Please nooooooo don't put it into the olympics. I want pole dance, not pole sport. What I love about pole dance is the expression, the sensuality, the artistic side of it.
Pole sport is just something that I have no interest in it and I think that "pole sport" being made and accepted to the olympics will ruin what most of us love so much about pole dancing. It will probably make people look even more down on Pole Dancing. =/
So yeahh. Please please please stop trying to get pole to the olympics and trying to "clean it up" 🙁
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What I meant was to give an example, and splay-legs was the only thing I could come up with. Sorry. It IS more like a variation of the splits, certainly, but sometimes I just see it as a "LOOK AT MY -" you know… >_>
What I meant was that, if we clean up pole dancing, I don't think it will be pole dancing the way we think of it. The same thing can be said for burlesque: If you clean it up, it's not burlesque anymore. I like dancing either one because it's fun, it's expression, and it helps me feel sexy and womanly and strong.
And, what I meant by having children in it was that, if we can all agree with the idea that we want the sensuality kept, I'd rather not see kids engaging in that. Hence why I said "If we kept it sexy…"
I am not ashamed that pole dance came from strippers, and I'm not afraid of it. Burlesque made strippers, and strippers were burlesque for a long time. They've parted ways, but I see nothing wrong with it.
But, I agree with the others: If you make it a sport, without the sensual, artistic thing, I wouldn't be interested. I see a "Goddess" as a strong, beautiful, SENSUAL woman who isn't afraid to be sexy. If we took that out of Pole dance, well…it wouldn't be Pole dance for me. It'd just be another thing that I'm not interested in, just like gymnastics.
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I agree with Veena and Runemist.
An olympic style Pole Sport would be just that – another sterile, gymnastic sport with incredible displays of strength, control and flexibility. There would be no art to it, no dance, no sensuality, no feeling. It would be cold and sterile, like any other gymnastics routine we watch. And that's fine for the Olympics. There is no place for the passionate, artistic, Sexy and sensual kind of pole dancing that most of us do at home in the Olympics.
If you want to make it an Olympic sport, fine. Clean it up, make it gymnastic and sterile and boring. It will simply be Vertical Pole Gymnastics.
I'll keep my booty popping and artistic, sexy yet still athletic pole dancing, thanks.
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I guess it's just a matter of taste. Personally I am only interested in sport. I want to see performance, composition, execution and difficulty, blended together in a flawless, elegant way that makes you forget that what your watching is a competition rather than a natural phonomoneon. There is nothing boring about crisp, flawless elegance.
Thats one thing that Felix Cane(pre zumanity), Megan Benjamin, Evgenia Kanaeva and Nastia Liuken all have in common – an etherial quality that has world-champion writting all over it.
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@MissKitty83 and Runemist34:
Couldn't have said it better myself. Hear, hear! And here's to all Veeners, too! 😉
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I agree with Veena's entire last post …well except that pole in the Olympics (not pole DANCING but pole in some form) DOES thril me because I enjoy ALL forms of pole from Chinese to sensual to sport and to whatever comes of the Olympics.
I am NOT ashamed of the origins of pole dancing and all you have to do it look at my business name or my website to know what my personal preferred style of expression is.
I, and those currently on the Olympic committee do not oppose sensual pole dancing and are not in any way trying to change or eliminate it nor do we feel the need to "legitiimitize it" through the Olympics. Olympic pole is a different sport…a different animal. It's apples and oranges.
I just don't understand why people feel that we have to have it one way or the other and why they feel that there cannot possibly be a third style of pole dancing?
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Here is my thought – the pole community is so divided in our styles and I honestly think AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION so nobody think I am trying to speak for anyone but myself https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif but I honestly feel that there seems to be a tendency among some – not all, but some of the pole dancers who subscribe to the strictly athletic side of pole to detract from the sensual side of pole, to claim some sort of pole legitimacy by stripping any sensuality from pole. To take the "sleaze" is a word I hear a lot, out of it and in somehow doing so it will become more legitimate in others eyes. How many times have we heard or perhaps our selves made up some excuse for pole dancing…."it's a sport…I do it for exercise…I am not a stripper I don't dance like that – etc" we have all done it in one form or another – I know I have…why not just say – I pole dance!
I think for me it's just the whole phrase "pole dancing in the Olympics" that throws me off because I think that if pole dancing does ever make it in it won't actually be pole dancing – it will just be another form of gymnastics on a vertical bar. Which is not to say that that is a bad thing – it's not – it's actually cool, but I and many others don't really think of that as pole "dancing" – to me and others that is pole athletics or vertical gymnastics . I think it's just that people are so attached to their personal choice/style of pole that the thought of losing that is difficult, not that anything is actually lost but by calling it "pole dancing" it is now being de-sensualized..covered up figuratively and literally. On one hand legitimizing that version of the sport but on the other hand saying to the people who enjoy the sensual aspect – your dance is something we don't subscribe to – your dance is not legitimate…at least that's how I feel 🙂
I'm kinda babbling though – did that make any sense lol?
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So, why not both? Pole sport and pole dance. Everyone already said it is what you make it, so who cares if it goes to the olympics? It won't change what you do. I am all for it.
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just another note…I LOVE Chinese pole LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT – literally just got back from the Traces show and I loved the pole work 🙂 Anyhow…that's actually what got me thinking about this thread again…while I LOVE Chinese Pole…I don't think of it as Pole Dancing – seriously think it's just the whole phrase of "pole dancing" that is throwing me offhttps://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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Funny that this thread has been revived; I just wrote a post on my blog about it last week.
http://www.polefitfanatics.com/2011/02/pole-an-olympic-sport/
I don't think pole should be in the olympics, purely because we lose the ability to define what pole dancing is for ourselves. I would like to see it 'legitimised' though – and if that means that the sport disassociates itself from it's stripper roots – so be it. Like many have said, that doesn't affect what you do in the privacy of your own home and doesn't detract from the dance/sensual aspect. What I would like as the mother of teenage boys, and a business woman, is not to have to feel embarassed about telling people about the sport I love and what I do in my spare time for fun and fitness.
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Verucablue: as I mentioned before we will not be calling it pole dancing because we really don't feel it will be pole dancing. We've tossed around a few names but haven't finalized anything as of yet.
I can also pretty certainly state that the people who actually behind this – those on the Olympic committee – are NOT opposed to sensual pole and are not trying to suppress it. Many, like myself, embrace the sensual side and others embrace the atheletic style of pole, but no one is in this to legitimitize it or to change it.
When this came up a few years ago, I think that part of the concept may have been to bring pole into the spotlight so that more people accepted it. However, now I don't think any of us on the committee feel that is our goal but simply that we see another form of pole sport that can possibly be an Olympic sport too.
PoleFitFanatic…things must be different where you are. There are certainly people who look down upon it but I cannot say that I'm ever embaressed about telling people what I do and in fact if someone looks at me odd I probably think less of them for being so narrow minded.
I cannot see disassociating sensual pole DANCING from it's stripper roots as that is the essence of sensual pole. You can't keep it sensual and try to keep people from thinking "stripper".
As Veena stated earlier…we have different types of pole – athletic, artistic, and exotic. We have two different formats : Chinese and pole dancing. We may be able to create a new format that is strictly sport – on the vertical bar.
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@Empyrean
I agree with your thoughts. As far as what people think where I am? People aren't necessarily closed minded – they are just ignorant – in that they don;t have the knowledge. It's not for me that I am embarassed, but i do need to consider my children. My 13 year old son has had a teacher come up to him and say 'I hear your mum is a pole dancer -snigger, snigger." That's not fair on my kids. So i am all for bringing awareness, and it is good to hear you saying that pole will not lose the dance aspect. Nice thoughts, you could change my mind yet!
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@Empyrean,
O and another thing. I am a web developer. If you need a hand with the site, I can help. i am pretty busy, but I am happy to volunteer some time if I can be of help for a good cause. Email me if you like: mailto:lynda@polefitfanatics.com.
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Polefitfinatic – I would have a FIT if one of my kids teachers spoke to them that way at all! No matter what the topic was about.
For anyone who would like to volunteer their services or talents to the IPSF I have no involvement in recruitment but you can submit your offers through the website if you wish to apply for a position or contact Tim Trautman himself.
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@Empyrean.
Yes I know. VERY poor form. however, for the sake of my son I let sleeping dogs lie rather than go up to the school and make a real fuss. Thanks, I will go to the site…
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