kulotsalot
Forum Replies Created
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I fell today, too, from an extended butterfly attempt. I have been trying this move for like 6 months, never felt secure on the studio pole (40mm stainless steel) but can do it on my home pole (45mm brass). Luckily fell on my butt and thigh so no damage done but it was pretty scary!
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Fantastic! I really need help with this!
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Haven’t been to any pole intensive workshops, but I’ve been to a couple of salsa-related ones. One of the problems is that, to build name recognition, you become a really great salsa or pole performer, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a great teacher! Some people can do the wildest tricks, but have zero teaching knowledge. It’s a different skill set.
Then, there is the problem of the organizers trying to draw in as many attendees as they can. This results in unclear or even no level requirements for a class. Because if they restrict to the appropriate level, they may turn away some people who are not ready for it. So better to attract as many people as possible and set up a difficult situation for an instructor (how to teach to a very varied group) as long as the organizers get their money.
And of course there’s the attitude of the instructors themselves. Some are the nicest, sweetest human beings, while some are so high on their own “stardom” that they forget the “low level” people attending their workshops are the ones paying for their time, airfare, and accommodation.
I would get in touch with the organizers and provide feedback. You paid good money for this and didn’t get the experience you wanted. It is also very much up to the organizers + instructors to set up level requirements per class!
Personally, after a few rounds of going to some weekend intensives (again, this is for salsa and not pole), I came to understand which instructors fit with my learning style, weren’t all about ego, and gave attention to their learners. I only attended those classes and not all offered. Finally, if you get to that point that you know which instructors are good, it might be more cost-effective to book privates with those ones, as opposed to doing the group class! Lessons tailored to your level, your goals, and you won’t be stuck in a corner gathering dust while others have all the fun.
Hopefully your next one will be a much better experience!
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It seems to me the porn and strip clubs may be a red herring for the real issue – lack of trust and respect.
In my mind you could be arguing about any other thing under the sun – how to raise kids, how to deal with nasty in-laws, use of alcohol or drugs, gambling, difference in religion, or whatever. You’ve drawn a hard personal boundary and told him, “Hey, this is as much as I’m willing to tolerate, and no more.” Meanwhile he has willingly and maliciously gone over that boundary again and again, with zero consideration for you! Zero respect for you as a person, and your thoughts/feelings/esteem are just minor inconveniences that get in the way of him living his life the way he wants.
“Is it OK for (partner) to cherish (other people)?” seems like the wrong question to ask, because there is no absolute answer that works for everyone. For two people who both answer it’s ok, if those two people get into a relationship with each other, then it’s all good! But in your case it is clear that you would answer “no” while your partner would answer “yes” to this question. A fundamental mismatch. Add to that the lack of respect, and you can see why you’re feeling used.
+1 to all the others who said seek professional help. Just wanted to add that we can only control our own behaviours and actions, not others’. The sooner you can divorce yourself from thinking “If I only did X then he may decide to do Y!” the less heartache and frustration you will experience.
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That is really cool! Yeah our trainer is very serious about the fitness side of things and her warm-ups are killer! She teaches muay thai kickboxing, too, and she’s hella strong. She’s even gotten featured in a local paper to lessen the stigma around pole, it’s really cool as in some ways the local community is still a bit iffy and conservative. What I like the most about it here is that there are so many local women who are getting into pole, and the instructor is Kenyan, too, so it’s not just expats teaching other expats! Nothing against expats since I am one myself, but it’s really great to see the pole love spread. 🙂
If anyone passes by Nairobi please give me a shout!
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Not my studio, I just take classes there 🙂 This personal trainer lady started doing classes last year, not really sure where she learned but there are a lot of people interested as she always gets inquiries, although there is still a bit of a stigma (slowly changing). Also not sure how many people stay on with her lessons, as a lot of people quit once they realize it’s not so easy and not all booty shaking! 😛 So far it’s the only studio I know of around here in NBO! I haven’t made it to Tanzania or Uganda (yet?), but I assume MonikaB you’re in Dar?
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When I lived in Kigali in 2012 I didn’t know of any pole studios. Glad to know it’s made it there now! If you don’t mind me asking, whereabouts is your studio? We used to live in Kisimenti, near the Chez Lando roundabout, when we were in Kigali.
Pole classes have been going on here in Nairobi for about a year, it’s really great that it’s spreading. 🙂 Hello, virtual neighbours!
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mgpoledance – Sorry I am not quite at the stage where I’m comfortable Skype-poling with others, but when I get there I’ll let you know! Thanks for the offer! 🙂
I think in this day and age a lot has been written about introversion in the media so it is not as weird or unknown to other people as it was before. I’ve definitely declined social invites from friends by saying outright that I’m not not feeling very social that day, or bailed because the group was larger than I thought it would be. They get it now, they’re getting used to it, and they’re not offended. “Having an introvert day!”
Certainly for group classes it’s harder to tailor the environment and setup for our own preferences, but as grayeyes said, I’m much less apologetic about my disposition than I was in the past!
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That’s a fantastic suggestion to use a literal bag of tricks! Thank you! 🙂
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Introvert here! I also take class on my own, or with just one or two other people (and they are usually the same people so I develop a rapport with them). Also have a pole at home but am not fully into self-training yet. It’s great that you’ve found what works best for you. I’ve done some group classes (for pole and other dance styles) but prefer privates or semis – less mental energy burned on “Oh my god, what is everyone else thinking about me right now!” which may not necessarily be an introvert thing, but something that always comes into my head and distract me. I know some people here pole “together” through Skype or something – you could try that?
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If it makes you feel any better, I have been doing salsa for 8 years and whenever my partner disconnects from me for some freestyle footwork, I also freeze. EIGHT YEARS! You are not alone. 🙂 I don’t have a lot of tips, but I have a feeling that this is mostly muscle memory. If you turn your brain off and your body takes over, your body does what it knows how to do.
I find that when I go to choreography classes I tend to remember what to do while in class because my brain is switched on and I’m concentrating, but once I leave I forget. If I try to just rely on it to resurface in a freestyle, it doesn’t happen. Why? Not enough time spent to drill it into my muscles. Are you able to practice the moves at home? Maybe pick 2-3 moves that you string together while practicing, so that you can build up an arsenal of go-to moves?
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Yeah I used to refuse doing any biceps training because I always thought of them as a vanity muscle and mostly for show. Well, guess what held me back on my pull-ups? Biceps! And once I started training them, I noticed a huge improvement on my ability to pull-up (not that I’m a master now but at least I actually see movement! LOL!). Goes to show, all the muscles work together and you can’t train some then ignore others.
Toes-to-bar is so difficult for me, I always just slide down! Maybe a grip issue? I guess anything that requires a strong grip would help with poling, too. 🙂
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Personally I’m a big fan of weight training because (1) women often ignore that sort of training in favour of heavy cardio, (2) I love getting more muscular (that toned look), and (3) it definitely helps with pole!
Because pole requires a lot of upper body strength in order to lift yourself up and hold yourself there, I would focus on those areas: arms, back, and chest muscles. Before my regular gym closed and ran away with our membership money (true story!), I liked doing:
– Dumbbell and barbell rows for your back (make sure good form when you lift heavier to prevent injuries)
– Lat pulldowns and inverted rows in preparation for pull-ups
– Pull-up negatives are also good in preparation for pull-ups (jump to the top and then slowly lower down w/ control)
– Bench press – yes, with a barbell! I know it may seem intimidating but start w/ an empty bar at first
– Bicep and hammer curls, tricep exercises, etc. I know Veena has some forearm/wrist exercises, too, because those small muscles are so often forgotten.
– Military press would be good for shoulders I believe
– Woodchops with a medicine ball or cable machineAnytime you move a heavy weight with your whole body (not in a machine) it activates your core and stabilizer muscles, so core work doesn’t necessarily mean doing crunches only. Some people at the gym do walking lunges with a barbell across their backs, I’m sure that works a whole lotta muscles!
I vastly prefer doing all barbell exercises NOT in a Smith machine (that machine that has the barbell on an up-down track) because on a Smith machine, the machine stabilizes the barbell for you, therefore less muscle engagement.
A simple weight training app that I used in the past is called Stronglifts 5×5, and it is free to download. It focuses on just a few lifts (bench press, squat, row, overhead press, and deadlift).
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One of the principals at our company continued with her daily ballet class well into her pregnancy! She kept it light and stayed away from heavy jumps and stuff like that, but she’d do barre exercises with us almost ’til the very end.
Light exercise is probably fine unless you’re having a high-risk pregnancy. Talking to your OB is probably your best bet! But I would imagine that if you stay upright and do a lot of dance-y stuff it’s not different from doing a light aerobics type workout at the gym or something like that.
Disclaimer: I’ve never, to my knowledge, been pregnant! 😛
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Not sure about the proper toe space, does that mean it needs to have that separation between big toe and all the rest? For a barefoot feel when barbell training I use Merrells and they work out fairly well. Can’t wear them all day as I need more arch support than this, but for people who like the barefoot feel it’s a good shoe.
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@mystical – To be fair, the woman who said that has been my training partner for the past few months, though she is at a lower level than I (we are in a semi-private class together, where the teacher teaches us diff things and switches between the two of us). When she said it she was clearly joking around so I didn’t take offense, but I’m sure there’s a grain of truth in there somewhere. I can imagine it being frustrating trying to nail an invert on your 20th attempt and barely getting your toes to touch the pole, meanwhile always being in class w/ someone who is mostly doing/learning upside-down tricks.
For my part, I’ve been working on the ayesha in class for probably 2 months now, and still can’t get it to happen. Yes, I get frustrated, too, especially when I see the tutorial vids where everyone does it with such ease and control! But then I remember it’s classified as “Advanced” here, and considering I only started poling regularly Nov of last year, I should probably chill the f out! 😀
Right now I’m also trying to learn more transitions and more dance parts so that I don’t freeze when the music comes on. It’s a lot of fun and makes me focus less on what I can’t do!
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I first took pole lessons in the Philippines back in 2013. A friend was really into it and sold me a Groupon for 8 wks of intro classes. Learned how to do some basic spins, pole sit/plank, and to climb. I was soooooo full of bruises everywhere! Then I moved to Rwanda, no lessons there! So stopped after 8 classes.
Fast forward to Nov 2014, turns out someone had just started doing lessons here in Kenya! So I signed up again and have been going once a week for pole since then. Still very bruise-tastic, though I think I’m getting more used to it.
I advanced fairly quickly due to 10 yrs of ballet training, leaving me with lots of body/movement awareness and flexibility even though I quit ballet when I was 18, ~10 yrs before I even started poling. I was also doing quite a bit of strength training which also helps tremendously! After about 4 months we were taught to invert
I feel guilty when people ask me when I started and then look so defeated, saying “I’ll never be that flexible, ever! No way can I do that in 6 months (or whatever).” It’s an individual journey. I just happened to have a headstart. But sometimes I don’t know if it’s aspirational or demotivating to put me in a class with lower-level polers. One woman once said, “Oh, I’m so glad to see you struggle and fail for once. I thought you just did everything perfectly all the time!”
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Disclaimer: Not a health care professional.
Honestly, it just doesn’t sound like the muscles are strong enough to do the move. You weren’t training for a couple of months, so the injury healed. But how much strengthening happened in that span of time? Maybe not that much, since you mentioned you have (just?) started getting back to flexibility and strength training. I don’t know that you can necessarily go back to the move that injured you in the first place without having done more strengthening and conditioning to prepare for that move. No pain = no more injury, but it doesn’t really meant that you are ready for that same move. In fact you may have also lost some strength if you have not done anything at all in the past two months.
I’m glad you’re going to a physio, they should be able to tell you how to strengthen the muscles without causing further injury. The back muscles are often overlooked when it comes to strength training exercises (especially it’s not a vanity muscle – not like biceps or abs!) so you’ll need to think about strengthening the back specifically. Then also think about how much weight/resistance are you using when you do strength training? Especially for people who don’t weight train a lot, 12-15 lb dumbbell rows might seem like a heavy weight. But compare that to body weight – the muscles are asked to carry a lot more load in an invert than it’s used to, even with that “heavy” weight training session.
You seem to be very stressed out and anxious about not being able to pole at all, ever, as the prospect of having to stop something you really love (and have started becoming quite good at, I imagine) can be really anxiety-inducing. However, a strong and healthy body should be the #1 priority, so I’d stop thinking about this problem as “What if I can never invert?” to “How can I adequately prep my body for strong, secure, and injury-free poling?” Take it slow, focus on strength and conditioning, so you can progress w/o more trips to the physio. This is more than just pole – if you can’t breathe or cough or sneeze without being in a lot of pain, your health and well-being is at stake, and your body is telling you to slow down.
Finally, I’m wondering if your instructor is not well-versed on body mechanics, especially correct muscle engagement etc. when performing a move. If you have the option for a private lesson w/ someone with a good reputation for that, they may be able to correct any mistakes in your invert that’s causing the muscle strains and injuries. The video Veena linked 2 months ago has a really good bit at the end on the common mistakes for inverts: one of them is jerking down (not able to hold the weight at the top of the invert) which strains the back and bangs up your ribs. That could be what’s happening to you, but you can’t spot it while you’re doing the move yourself!
Take care of your body, rest up, and get back into it slowly!
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If you have the budget for it, you may be able to buy clothes that may be a bit larger in size overall (off the rack) and then take it to a trusted tailor who can take it in for certain areas.
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If you’re a regular at the studio, maybe they’d be open to suggestions on music or to start an open pole class time at your location?
In my head, freestyle is made up of dance components that don’t need a pole, plus moves you do on a pole in a dance-y way. Maybe you can work on the former even at home (no pole needed, and you pick the music!) then the latter can be done in-studio by not just focusing on the mechanics of a move but deliberately trying several passes at it in a more dance-y kind of way. Or is that a very naive and simplistic way of thinking about it?
I get the self-consciousness aspect, I don’t even like watching my own videos when I film myself, and I showed them to my husband but didn’t watch with him! 😛 I know, it’s strange. All I’m doing is critiquing, critiquing, critiquing, while he’s looking at the big picture and saying things look smooth and graceful. Really believing that no one else is watching would be a very useful skill to have, I think!
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I think your usual weekly class is very similar to mine in format. I would be frustrated, too, if I use up all my energy in the warm-up moves and not for the “real deal!”
The way I deal with this is that I listen to my body and let that be my guide, and I’ve told a teacher a few times that I can’t do as many reps or whatever as I want to save my strength. Sometimes, they won’t listen to you and think you’re just being a lazy bum, but sometimes they will. Of course, sometimes it’s hard to gauge at the start of a 100-rep exercise that you need to stop at 50, if you don’t know from the start that the teacher is aiming for 100! In your shoes I may ask the teacher if there will be attempts to do the actual move at the end or if the day will be spent on prep exercises, again as a way to help you spend your energy where it matters the most. YMMV, some instructors may not like that you’re taking control vs. just following orders!
I’m a very externally motivated dancer, meaning I mostly do it to impress other people, so I feel your frustration even more so w/ this mindset of mine! I know, I know, I should dance for me, blah blah, but the truth is I love being told by other people that I looked great or I nailed it. 😀 But when I’m not the best student (which of course doesn’t always happen) it is even more of a letdown because of this mindset as well. I don’t have any answers for that particular question, just want to say I feel your pain!
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Labeling certain sections as “for Elite polers only” is probably more to say that they shouldn’t be attempted by anyone whose body and training can’t handle it, and that we should be realistic about our personal limitations. Does that mean you are “less than?” Only if you see yourself that way, and it sounds like you don’t, as contortion/gymnastics aren’t a big focus of your pole work.
Perhaps the answer is to get to an elite level, as YOU define it! 🙂 I don’t think the class distinctions are unique to pole. Football fans debate if Messi is as great as Pele or if Maradona is the all-time great. Ballet followers argue about why it took so long to promote a soloist to a principal dancer (Misty Copeland comes to mind), and basketball fans debate if Lebron, Kobe, and MJ are all in the same category or not. I like to think that the Messis, Kobes, and Copelands of the world don’t concern themselves much about what labels people give them (or not), they just try to be the greatest versions of themselves that they can be!
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A personal pet peeve of mine (coming from a ballet background) is when people sickle their feet when they try to point. It really breaks a nice leg line!
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Though I’m quite new to pole, here’s some of the stuff I picked up from other dance forms over the years:
– First, become familiar with the move and proficient at doing it. You have to be able to do it properly first, then pretty it up later. It’s hard to make something look pretty if you are struggling to hold it or execute it.
– Once proficiency is achieved, we need body/muscle awareness. Identify the muscles you are engaging when performing a move. I don’t think many people do this consciously, we kind of just tense up whatever our body instinctively thinks it needs to in order to hold a position. If we’re aware of all the diff muscles that are engaged, it lets us engage and correct each one if needed.
– Think of your body in four different parts: head, arms (including hands), torso, legs (including feet). When you move one part, be conscious of moving all components of that part, and moving it *deliberately*. What I mean by this is that most people hear “point your toes” and so they just think about their toes. What actually makes a great leg line is thinking about energy going from your hip joint, down your leg (squeeze quads and glutes), locking your knees, down your shin, pointing the foot, and ending at the tips of your toes. It is the whole system that works together, and when we talk about lines it really, literally, is like drawing a line from the center of your body out, and you want as few kinks as possible. So for example your head is an extension of your torso and can make the line of your body look great if tilted in the same direction, or just wrong if tilted the other way. As an exercise, work in front of a mirror and deliberately try to make bad lines as well as good lines by moving different components of each area of the body (tense/relax different muscle groups, straighten/bend different joints, etc). Don’t be afraid to look awkward, you are supposed to hit some awkward poses and then identify some good ones as well along the way!
– Some people say that if you imagine yourself moving through water (or in this case dancing in water) it helps with your lines. It slows down your movements. Flow, IMO, has a lot to do with not just going from one trick to the next, but savoring the transitions and giving it as much thought and effort.
– Commit to the movement with your whole body. Are you reaching up to the ceiling at a particularly dramatic part of the song? Then your torso must also be stretched, you’re looking up with longing, you’re on your tippy-toes to try to reach whatever imaginary thing you are reaching for…
– Breathe! Flow is more believable when it’s rhythmic like your breathing. Stretching/expansive movements are usually better when done on the inhale, contraction/bending/pulling in on the exhale.
– Posture – back elongated and core engaged is the default “good posture” position, but even curving your spine over in a slouched position can look good if it looks like you are doing it deliberately vs. “I was too busy thinking about my legs I forgot to think about my back!”
– Watch yourself or record yourself. Since we normally can’t see ourselves all the time while dancing you have to trust that what feels good in your body also looks good, and reviewing video helps with that! With practice, you will be able to identify that this particular feeling means a “fully stretched leg and pointed toes” and you’ll know that that’s what feeling you should be striving for each time you want to do the same thing.Hope these weren’t too abstract. 🙂
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My husband has a completely opposite view of pole. Not only is he supportive, he is very enthusiastic! He spots me, he knows who “dirdybirdy” is and loves her cat videos, he’s installed a pole in our living room and when searching for a new apartment “room for pole” is on the list of requirements. He used to be a gymnast, though, and loves physically challenging activities, so I think his appreciation for pole stems from how physically challenging it is, while still making it look pretty and effortless. He tries some moves with me and eagerly asks me what I learned in class this week. Aaaaah! He is like the perfect pole husband. He loves that I love it so much, and gets excited at how I excited I get when I learn something new or figure something out. He also encouraged me to get a SV subscription. 🙂
I don’t know what it is about him exactly that makes him this way, but I like to think that being a feminist husband has a lot to do with it. He doesn’t think of it as slutty and provocative, and he doesn’t think that sexuality/sensuality should be “for his eyes only.” He likes that I have my own things that I’m into, and loves that I found a workout that I enjoy. We do enjoy going to the gym together as well and though we don’t always do the same workouts I think he’s just really happy that we have about the same level of dedication to fitness pursuits, and we’re not both “letting ourselves go.”
I would like to say that I show the same amount of enthusiasm and support for him and his pursuits. I encourage him to go to poker nights, ask about his Crossfit workouts, and find him a gymnastics gym when we’re in a country that has one of those things. I guess this mutual support thing is baked into our relationship contract w/o really discussing it. Got lucky in that regard!
PS This is my first time posting on SV, whee! 🙂
