[Cinara]

I've always assumed I couldn't even try a twisted ballerina because I didn't have enough back flexibility. So no help on that side. But, I did learn recently that a lot of what appears to be back flexibility is actually hip flexor flexibility. I'd love to hear about some new stretches to try too.

[Cinara]

Aha, I didn't know a shooting star was also called jasmine. That may very well be the answer. Thanks!

[Cinara]

Pole twin, just be careful with the twisted grip: warm up, go into it from an invert and watch out for owwies. I know you will be but it is hard on the joints at first I don't want to be responsible  for anyone getting hurt. Still, it's a handy grip to have for transitions.

[Cinara]

As an ex-gymnast, I was something of a natural when I first started learning to pole, and believe me, there is always someone better. I look at Blondebird's incredible strength, and I just want to give up and go home.

I work as a speech therapist and I have a theory that "Eventually everyone hits a wall". I based this theory on academics – some people hit the wall early on like learning to read, others not until they go to grad school and struggle with reading academic texts. The difference is, the person who hits the wall early on gains the tools to work thorugh the difficulty and find a solution which makes it easy to overcome any future difficulties (or at least they will after they see mee :p) The person who has an easy time up until grad school finds themselves struggling, and has nothing because they never had the opportunity to learn what to do when academics gets tough. And I think it's the same with pole. You're just getting the hitting-a-wall stage over and done with early.

Some people hit a wall early on, whether it's with inverts, or even hanging off the pole. But, while they are working on that sort of thing, they are also learning perfect technique (because their technique will need to be perfect to finally get the skill), they are becoming stronger, more fluid and more aware of their bodies faster by repeating the action over and over again, and they are gaining the mental ability to persevere when things get tough.

Meanwhile the person who gets the skill quickly doesn't get to learn any of these things, but instead more skills. But trust me, that person will hit a wall sooner or later (Probably. If you never did, I don't want to hear it). Like for me, I blazed through lots of the early stuff, but then I started getting injured and started struggling with some previously accquired moves. See, my gymnastics training meant I already had a fair idea of how to do a lot of moves – a basic invert is very similar to a pull-around for instance. So I just applied the gymnastic knowledge to the pole.

But, that means my pole technique wasn't 100% perfect. And I had to go back and relearn skills with perfect technique just to fix up my lines and prevent injury. So I can't learn an allegra yet because it bruises my thigh too much, because I haven't toughened it up, because my body was in the wrong position in a scorpio, but to get a better position for a scorpio I have to change the way I do my chopper. And because I've done everything the wrong way so many times, it's harder to relearn it all. Plus, too much of my enjoyment was based on ticking off new skills, so I've had to go back to learning to just have fun again.

But I'm going to work through it, and hopefully in the distant future when I'm having trouble with a Flying K or something equally ridiculously hard I'll find it easier to persevere. 

Hopefully, once you finally get the hang of the basics, you will find it easier to keep learning because you'll have had the correct technique from the start. And hopefully be less injury prone, because all the not-so-sucessful attempts will have built your strength. And, when you do come across difficult skills in the future, you will have worked out a way to get through it mentally as well.

Good luck climbing the wall, and most likely all the other walls in your way will be much smaller thanks to all the work you're putting in now.

[Cinara]

I learnt a forearm grip first, but my ability to do it is highly seasonal. I tend to have sweaty hands and I slip more in this grip. So I can do it in winter but not in summer. I think it's because I can't get my hips as far from the pole, so there is more force running parallel to the pole, and I'm more reliant on hand friction. It seems that for my sweaty hands, the further I can get my body from the pole, the less slip I have. Plus, if I do slip, I'll flip over onto my feet instead of sliding down the pole head first.

My elbow grip is slightly better than a forearm grip in the summer, but there's still the same problem of not being able to get my body as far from the pole.

The easiest grip for me is the twisted split grip, as you can see in my profile pic. I can hold it for over 10 seconds (I usually get bored and start trying different stuff from there which is how I lose my balance). Veena, I promise I'm very careful with it, never kick up, don't practice excessively, stretch forearms, etc. 🙂

I just got a split grip jacknife and can push into a straightedge for a few seconds (yay!) No aysha for me yet thanks to my injured hip. Once I've practiced the split grip a bit more I think I'll like it much better than the other grips. Yeah, it's been a long hard road to get any balance in it, but I suspect once I get it it will be more secure and less subject to the vagaries of the weather. Plus handsprings and cartwheels!

[Cinara]

I have the exact problem with my left hip, and I would advise not doing what I did, which was over-stretching while saying to myself "Come on, you bitch, you'll never be good unless you get this split flat" and then stretching some more.

In my case, I've sprained and strained just about everything in my hip (seriously, it's tight from just above my knee up into my abdomen and back around to my glutes) plus I have some bursitis. There are a lot of muscles in the pelvis and many of them can be get tight. Plus some can "catch" on the bony prominences of the pelvis and femur, especially when tight, and that might be what you're feeling.

I've also heard that adductor muscles (the ones you stretch in a side split) don't respond that well to excessive stretching and you need to take it easy with them. 

I don't want to give specific advice since I'm not qualified, but physio has worked quite well for me. I've been taking NSAIDs, using heat packs, gently stretching hip flexors and gluteals, doing pelvis stabilising exercises, getting physio massages plus dry needling, and avoiding stetching my side splits until I recover. Wow, I'm doing a lot. 

So maybe get it checked out now, before you end up with a crazy all day regimen like I have at the moment 🙂

[Cinara]

I can't think of anything else to add on the tuck invert technique, but with the pain thing, I've had that too, and I think it is a strength thing, but not one you can improve by just keeping on doing the same thing and hoping the pain will go away.

Any time you invert, try to come down either by going into a handstand first, or else just sliding down the pole. (Being able to just slide down the pole in any position is actually a great safety skill to have in general, in case you manage to somehow get all tangled up on a spinny pole going way too fast like I have done a few times :p) Never just drop your feet back down, because sharp twingy pain is a warning sign.

As you gain strength you may be able to drop your feet back down, but even then you need to keep your feet pointing at the ceiling as long as possible and make it really slow and controlled. I've been poling for a year, and only just got the strength to do this.

If you're falling before you even get up to the pole, maybe just stick with the invert you can do for awhile until it gets more soild and then come back to the tuck.

Good luck!

[Cinara]

Lol, why is the word 'but' apparently part of the link? I just dont speak computer :p

[Cinara]

I know what you mean. I hate getting up on the pole only to come back down. I just find it too tiring. I don't know if you know wikipole ( http://www.triagedesign.co.uk/wikipole/index.php5?title=Main_Page&nbsp😉 but that can help with move names, or else I can try some alternates. The joy of being semi-self-taught is that I speak Veena, YouTube, Bobbi's, Wikipole and a little bit of Vertical Dance with varying degrees of fluency. I think I've just made up my own naming system at this point.

Good luck with the showcase! xx

[Cinara]

Star to flipped gemini

Butterfly into scorpio is one of my favourites. Here are some others I like to do.

Cupid or marley, holly drop into scorpio

Scorpio gemini switches (and you can chuck an inverted thigh hold in there too)

Scorpio to scorpio switch looks awesome if you can pull it off

Cross ankle/knee release, bow and arrow, lunchbox or dangerous brian

Brass monkey to eros

Cross ankle release to twisted grip aysha

I love combos. If I go to all the effort of inverting on the pole I like to do a few different things to make it worth my while 🙂

[Cinara]

If it helps, I'm at an intermediate/advanced level (working on aysha, holly drop, dove, shoulder mount) and still have a lot of problem with split grips. I only just learned carousel, for instance. So some of the problem might just be that split grips are hard. (Of course I fully expect some people will come along and say they have no problem with split grip, but do with x other grip. In which case I'll revise to split grips are hard for some people.)

I can tell you, when I do a chair spin with a split grip it barely spins at all. Boomerang and carousel do spin, but I have to put a bit of momentum into them. So I think it's just practice, and never mistaking the split grip for an easy grip 🙂

[Cinara]

Congrats! Straight edge/ aysha seems to be a real milestone move. Good luck on the handspring and cartwheel mounts – I'm working on them too, and look forward to the video when you finally get them 🙂

[Cinara]

I am so sorry about your marriage. It's horrible that some small-minded people are trying to make you feel dirty for doing something you love, and that's it's affecting your family life. 

Having said that, I respectfully disagree with trying to eliminate all association with female sexuality from poledancing, because the problem is not really that poledancing is open and sometimes brash about it, the problem is that society tries to tell women that they should be ashamed of their bodies, their activities, and their sexuality.

Why is it that there is a stigma for women who strip, but not nearly as much judgement of the men who go to strip clubs? What is inherently wrong with sex or the female body? 

I do agree that making poledancing more asexual would make life easier for all of us. Like you say, a lot of people are small minded. These people would do anything to try to make us women feel bad about ourselves and try to dictate what we can and can't do with our bodies. But by educating the world on how poledancing is not about stripping or sexuality, it just reinforces the view that there is something wrong with female sexuality, and I know you don't believe that, because you respect women who strip and enjoy sexy dancing. We have no reason to be ashamed.  

Removing sexuality from poledancing would be good for poledancers in the short term, but bad for women in the long run. Of course, it's easy for me to say this, because I live in Australia, where the conservative fringe is far less vocal and powerful (and by conservative I mean in terms of views of women and sex, not necessarily politically). Plus, I have not been affected personally by this stigma, so it is easier for me to take the feminist stance. For other women, the decision to openly embrace their sexuality is far more difficult, and also far more courageous, and I would never begrudge a woman who chose to downplay her sexuality for her own safety and/or mental health.

I hope that your husband can learn to accept that you are doing something that makes you feel happy, and love you for it.  And I hope that your sons grow up to learn that all women are free to make choices about their own bodies, and all are worthy of respect, whether they are not overtly sexual, or strip for money.

You have my admiration for being brave enough to do something you enjoy in an environment that is not supportive of it. If downplaying the sexual side of poledancing would make life easier for you personally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, all of us choose to dance in whatever way we want. But I hope that one day no woman will have to be ashamed to be true to herself. The only way poledancing is ever dirty is if you use a brass pole and it makes your hands all green 🙂

I wish you a lot of love and good luck for the future.

[Cinara]

Another thing that helped me was making sure my shorts were short enough, so I could get good grip with the fleshiest part of the top of my thighs. Also when I started out I thought the pole was just too slippery, but then I realised that I just needed to squeeze a lot harder all the way along my legs. Focus on squeezing from the top of your legs to the bottom. If anything it will build your strength.

[Cinara]

Thanks guys, it looks like I'm just going to have to suck it up and film a lot of dancing. I'll keep practicing, use nice slow movements, cover the mirror, stay on my toes, relax my body, practice some more and then practice some more. I'll definitely have a hunt around for S factor. I went through a few of the beginner lessons last night and it was very helpful – especially the leg kicks video, it was like "Aha! That's why everyone else's leg kicks look sexier than mine!

I'll check out Leigh Ann's video too – always nice to find someone else to admire on YouTube. I might have to postpone my hair flicks for a few days though, because I got rear ended yesterday, and hurt my neck, so now is probably the perfect time to be focussing on nice, slow, smooth dancing.

Once I'm happy I'll post a video to show you how I'm going.

[Cinara]

I've just started at Bobbi's this year, so I've seen your Miss Pole performance on the DVD 🙂 Very awesome. I've been at another pole studio, and also self-taught a little. I'll have to give dry hands a go.

[Cinara]

Ooh thanks for the shaving cream + Dry Hands tip. Do you think Tite Grip would work instead of Dry Hands? I'll give it a go to get through this awful Perth weather 🙂

[Cinara]

Ouchies! I've had the same thing where it hurt right along the ulna (the bone that is on the little finger side, not the thumb side). It hurt mostly when I released my grip from things like the cradle and boomerang, basically anything where my weight was supported on my hand with my fingers pointed down. With me, even though the pain was along the bone, the problem was actually the muscle underneath, and the pain was just referred to the bone.

Is that similar to what's happening for you? If not, from what I've read forearm pain and injuries are some of the most common for poledancers. You're supporting your weight with your arms, and gripping onto the pole tightly, so it's something your arms aren't used to doing in everyday life. It's very easy to strain the muscles by suddenly demanding more form them than they're used to.

What worked for me was going to the physio to get it checked out and release the muscle a little, avoiding split grip tricks for awhile, and going back to basics with the cradle and completely relearning it. It turns out I was taught some bad technique at a pole studio, but Veena's lesson fixed it right up.

So yeah, get it checked out by a doctor/physio/shaman/whoever, because I have absolutely no qualification to give you any help beyond general waffling, and just go easy on your arms while they get used to the pole. 🙂

[Cinara]

Yaaaayyyy! Well done! I just got the superman last night. What worked for me was banging my head against the pole, going "come on, you can DO this!" and then resolving to get into the damn thing whether I ripped all the skin off my legs or not. And then I did with no skin rippage. So possibly not the most conventional technique.

I went back to Veena's intermediate lessons to relearn the cradle, and now I'm very close to getting into a butterfly from it. Once the weather calms down a bit (it's been over 90 every day for a month) and my hands aren't so sweaty, I should have the confidence to do it. Can't wait to get back to ayshas and bow and arrow without having my hands sliiiiiide down the pole.

[Cinara]

https://www.studioveena.com/users/view/4d437ca8-de10-4989-87a6-046c0ac37250, we're pole twins! I could have written your post, because I have trouble with the two same skills. I'm very close with the superman finally (thanks, Veena), but the cradle to butterfly has actually reduced me to tears. See, I heard a rumour that you can't get into advanced at my pole studio if you can't do it, and kind of catastrophised it into "If I can't cradle into butterfly I can't do advanced lessons, and I'll never be a pole dancer and my life is meaningless!" But then I got some perspective.

The problem is, I learnt the cradle at a diffferent pole studio and got taught with some bad technique (top arm straight, body away from the pole) which put crazy pressure on a tiny muscle in my forearm, and now I've had to take a break from anything upright with a split grip for months while it slowly heals. Hopefully with healing + good technique I'll be able to hook my leg on the pole, and then start working on the actual hard part of the move.

Bizarrely I got marley and CAR very quickly, but am nowhere near knee hold.

[Cinara]

Yep, I used to do trampolining, but my progress was severely limited by the fear factor. And I must admit, my experiences in trampolining make me a little emotional about the Olympics issue.

When I started there were a lot of people in their late teens, and a few adults and we were all really great friends, though the standard of trampolining was not that great. I had a tough time in high school, so I have some really fond memories of the friendships I made.

Then we had a new coach come from overseas and start making the sport very serious. Now anyone over the age of about 15 is made to feel very unwelcome, because they're taking up valuable trampolining time that could go to the "serious" competitors. So the average age of trampolinists is like, 12, which makes you feel a bit creepy and weird. Plus, if I didn't want to compete, I was only able to attend one 90 minute class per week, at one location in the whole state and no more. It just killed all the fun out of the sport.

But anyway, I hope it didn't come off as though I was trashing pole fitness (maybe I was trashing gymnastics a little…sorry), because the two types of pole dance seem to really just come down to dance styles, trick choices and costumes with a lot of blurriness between the two. So I love both, in as far as I can tell them apart 🙂

My only real concern is that there is sometimes an undercurrent (mainly on youtube, not here) of "We're not strippers, we're athletes" as though strippers or poledancers in clubs are inferior or trashy, and I would be concerned that if pole dancing became an Olympic sport it could further marginalise women who work in that industry.

[Cinara]

My apologies for not seeing your post on early and late specialization. I would guess that pole dancing would begin as a later specialization sport (mostly picking up the gymnasts-with-lumbar-spine-stress-fractures market, which in my experience is where a lot of sucessful trampolinists, divers and sports acrobats come from), but over time, the advantages of being younger would outweigh those of being older.

The lower body weight of being pre-pubescent would be just as useful as increased strength, and when you add to that the better natural flexibility, better neuroplasticity for learning complex moves and spatial awareness, better compliance with instructor directions due to less assertiveness and the lack of a day job, meaning more time to train, and less adult committments would eventually outweigh anything else.

There may be a bit of a cultural difference here. Are extra-curricular activities needed to get into university in Canada like in the US? Because in Australia, where tertiary education is based on academics only, if a fifteen year-old wanted to go to the Olympics she would almost always be training exclusively in that sport (with maybe weights sessions as well) by that age at the latest. But I guess in the US (and maybe Canada?) where you need to have well-rounded extra-curricular activities for tertiary education it would be necessary for a fifteen year old to train in multiple sports. 

The other cultural difference is that Australia is completely insane about sporting achievement. Plus with a small population, and therefore a small talent pool, we need to pour so much money, and heap so much pressure on our athletes to maintain our level of insanity.

You're right about sports that have an artistic component. I'd forgotten about them. And now I think about it, pole probably would have an artisitc component, especially because it is more likely to be accepted as completly independent sport than part of gymnastics. Gymnastics barely tolerates trampolining as it is, let alone something that comes from (gasp!) strip clubs. So maybe the artistry will stay, which would make a difference.

 

[Cinara]

I am absolutely 100% against pole dancing being an Olympic sport, and here's why: Who here ever practises at a physical studio, takes lessons in person, has ever been to a pole jam, or is rocking on the pole despite starting as an adult? If pole dancing becomes an Olympic sport, all of this could be gone.

Growing up, I did gymnastics, diving and trampolining. I competed in all three, because I didn't really have a choice. In Olympic sports, the people who do it for fun or fitness are treated like second-class citizens compared to those who have a chance of going to THE OLYMPICS!!!

This ranges from bullying and snide comments from the competitive athletes, being ignored or put down by instructors, and just plain lack of access to facilities. Generally, there is one practice time available per week for adult athletes and if you can't make it then (because, you know, you're an adult and have committments)  too bad. And if the coach leaves, or the timeslot is needed by someone else, guess who loses their only practice time?

When it comes to acrobatic sports in the Olympics, it's entirely about children and it is made clear that adults are not welcome to participate in the sport at any level. Why children? Because of the greater plasticity of the child's brain, the better natural flexibility, and the potential to delay puberty through overexercise and dieting, resulting in a lighter, smaller athlete. This all leads to more complex skills to wow the judges. Sure it can border on child abuse, and contributes to the obesity epidemic by making sure only naturally talented and rich children have access to that mode of exercise, but at least the viewers at home have something speccy to look at.

You may think parents would be uncomfortable with their small children poledancing – but trust me, the allure of sending a child to the Olympics will be much stronger for a lot of parents.

Well, now that I've accused the Olympics of causing child abuse and obesity :p, do I really think it will be that bad?

Maybe not. Maybe the legacy of poledancing in strip clubs will protect it from this fate. It may go the way of Tae Kwon Do and split into two streams:

Pole fitness at the Olympics (with 12 year old Chinese girls performing amazing feats for the gold, while Australian girls are hothoused and pushed to the point of nervous breakdowns trying to beat them out, rampant eating disorders, shoulder reconstruction surgery as a matter of course, and absolutely no artisitc merit whatsoever, but moves that make the spatchcock look like an intermediate move)

Pole dancing competitions in strip clubs (much older athletes, real dancing, but nowhere near as fancy moves, and probably a lot of slut-shaming coming from the Olympic Pole Fitness camp).

I suppose this would be a liveable solution, but I will not sign the petition because I've seen it all before and I just want to keep children off the poles (well, except in their parents houses/studios – that's cute!)

[Cinara]

I had this problem for awhile and it turned out that it was just that I was taking the wrong foot off the pole. As soon as I switched I could do it. If your right hand is your strong hand, invert with the pole on your right side, make your right hand your bottom hand, and take your right leg off the pole. (Or if your left hand is on the bottom, your left leg comes off, obviously.)

Otherwise, the only thing I can think of is an old gymnastics trick: Just try to tilt to the other side of the pole instead 🙂