[Cinara]

Hey buddy! I'm a member of the determinedly big thighs club too. The theory goes that wider poles are easier to grip with your legs, but narrower poles are easier to grip with your hands. Personally, I don't feel any difference in leg grip between 50mm, 45mm or even 38mm, although 38mm did take a couple of weeks to adjust. So the good thing about large thighs is that they do give you a grip advantage. 

If you've tried a 45mm and it's more comfortable and you'll look forward to poling more if you have it, just go with that. But I don't think the width should really matter too much. If you're planning on being a big serious competitor go with 50mm, but I guess the point of my rambling is that big thighs are best suited to EVERYTHING! Especially once you strengthen them 🙂

 

[Cinara]

Hey buddy! I'm a member of the determinedly big thighs club too. The theory goes that wider poles are easier to grip with your legs, but narrower poles are easier to grip with your hands. Personally, I don't feel any difference in leg grip between 50mm, 45mm or even 38mm, although 38mm did take a couple of weeks to adjust. So the good thing about large thighs is that they do give you a grip advantage. 

If you've tried a 45mm and it's more comfortable and you'll look forward to poling more if you have it, just go with that. But I don't think the width should really matter too much. If you're planning on being a big serious competitor go with 50mm, but I guess the point of my rambling is that big thighs are best suited to EVERYTHING! Especially once you strengthen them 🙂

 

[Cinara]

I go to Bobbi's and just learnt the wrist sit with both hands above the pole. Bobbi's refers to it as The Violator which I'm not so keen on https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif but the most equivavlent move on Wikipole is the Diamond Cut. For this version you definately do have to have the pole off centre on the skin between your butt and leg. In a wrist sit you can do it either way, because of the lower hand. But you might as well go with the off-centre version from the beginning, so that it's easier to move on to the violator/diamond cut later.

[Cinara]

It could be either your core, your quads or your flex, but it's probably a bit of all three. The best way to figure it out is to try to hold your leg up like in a boomerang pose and see what hurts first. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif For me, it was my quads cramping. The reason it could be strength or flexibility is because if you're close to the edge of your flexibility range your muscles will have greater resistance, and you'll need more strength to maintain the pose. You can either make your muscles (in this case hamstrings and thigh adductors) less resistant by improving flex or make the opposing muscles (quads, core) stronger to fight the resistance. I'd do both.

One exercise I used was to stand with one foot on a chair, and leg outstretched. Then try to lift your leg off the chair, keeping your leg straight. You'll probably need to hold onto something to balance, and you need to make sure you have good posture and aren't dipping your chest down. If it's too difficult, put your leg on something lower than the chair. This is really tough!

At the same time, keep stretching your hamstrings and adductors. I had the same problem for a long time, and I'm still working on it. I've gone from just below horizontal to just above horizontal.

[Cinara]

Awesome. I'll give it a go 🙂

[Cinara]

Instead of bringing your legs straight out to the side, point them up towards the ceiling a little and lean back. This takes the pressure off your lower hand a bit, and makes the top hand work harder. The top hand is in a more natural position, so it can take more weight. I'm someone who learns through focussing on the "feel" of a move, so here's how I can best describe it: Despite the name, it shouldn't really feel like you're "sitting" on your lower hand (although it is helping hold you up, of course). It feels more like the feeling when you're just standing facing the pole, and you grab it with one hand and lean back.

I agree with RoseMay that it can also feel safer to release the pole with your legs bent in a froggy position before you extend them, so that your legs are close to the pole to regrasp if necessary.

[Cinara]

Thanks for the tips! I tried grabbing a little higher on the pole tonight and it really helped. It's now only at superman levels of pain which I can live with. I'm still getting a bit stuck and can't quite get my back right against the pole, so I can't reach my foot, but at least I can keep working on it now it's less painful.

Veena, what would be another name for a half hip hold? I'm thinking either a half jade/duchess, or a gemini with the free leg brought in front of your face. I'll have to give that a try too.

[Cinara]

I'm not sure about offline, but what I've always done is just written notes and taken screen captures, and then printed it out and taken it with me to practice. Usually that's enough for me. The only time I've ever watched the lesson and followed along at the same time is with the beginner floor work and dance moves. 

[Cinara]

I tend to have the opposite problem to you in that my legs are really grippy, but my hands slip easily, but here are a few tips I've picked up that might help:

Scorpio – Just a terminology check: this is the outside leg hang, right? It seems like it from your description, but I've heard a few people from the UK who use scorpio for the inside leg hang, so thought I'd check. Invert into an inverted V / chopper first, but keep your chest up, rather than dropping your body back against the pole like you would for a gemini. This will help you get some side grip on the pole. (Make sure you have a bare midriff). I find side grip is just as important as leg grip. Hook your leg with a slight bend, so the pole runs across your thigh. Then, drop your other (free) leg down as far as you can, before finally lowering your body. Once it's lowered you can add some back of armpit grip too, but I find I don't need to. This feels much more secure than the way I first learned it (but is also more painful on my thigh). 

In general, I think the scorpio is under-estimated. It's easy to sort-of do, but surprisingly difficult to do properly.

Allegra – I haven't managed this one yet, so I don't have any great advice. My problem is the opposite of yours: I try to roll my body over and just get my leg fat stuck and my love handle pinched and I'm in too much pain to even get close! And I don't even have that much love handle dammit! Anyway, I think perfecting the scorpio is actually the key to an allegra anyway. (That and keeping your chest up until the pole is running along your back).

Superman – This one seems to just take lots and lots of repetition. Can you do it by inverting, going into a handstand, sliding your legs down until they're parallel to the floor and then reaching back with your hand? Anyway, from the gemini, make sure you drop your lower hand a fair way below your body. It's okay if your legs grip the pole at mid-thigh instead of right at the top, as long as they grip. The way I finally got it was to grip the pole mid-thigh. Plus, it means you don't need as much back flex to get into a figurehead.

CAR – Not sure if you've heard all of this, but here goes. No, it doesn't matter which leg is on top, so just stick with whatever's comfortable. As well as squeezing your legs together, roll your knees inwards slightly (this is one of Veena's tips which helped me). The other thing that works for me is to tilt your legs up towards the roof before you let go with your hands. So you kind of drop in 2 parts. 1) legs point to ceiling; 2) head points to floor. What this does is  makes the point of contact run the whole length of your thigh, as opposed to in a plank (legs parallel to floor) where only 50mm of thigh skin is in contact with the pole.

In general, try rubbing some shaving gel or shaving foam into your legs (no water) just before poling. Just make sure you then wash your hands with soap and water, because it doesn't seem to work as well on hands.

Finally, I would seriously recommend Veena's lessons if you can swing it (I'm not being paid to say this, honest!) Even if it's just for a month, it's great for covering any gaps in your knowledge. It really helped me with so many of my skills, both in getting them in the first place and improving form. So if you have a spare $20…

[Cinara]

Runemist, I had the same problem when I first started filming and I still know I'm not as smooth or fluid or strong or sexy as so many people here. I still cringe when I see myself going into weird wrist-flicky gymnastics hands. But anyway, these are a few things that help me.

1. Don't worry about the camera for new moves because they'll look awkward, and it's important for you to learn the feel of them. Filming is best for moves you're confident with to improve your lines and smoothness. So film stuff you can already do confidently.

2. Start by filming a short combo, watch it back, and then delete it. Try to find one thing to improve for the next time. For me this is usually the aforementioned wrist flicking, but it could be pointed toes, more/less hip turnout, not pulling a face, etc. Then film the combo again, see if you improved that thing and delete. You can keep deleting until you get something you're happy with.

3. That said, if you can stand to keep a few early attempts they can be useful to look back on and see how far you've come. If you keep filming you can really notice your improvement.

4. Every time you film, find at least one thing that you think you did well, or better than last time. Say what it was out loud, even if there's no-one around to hear.

5. This is a bit of a mean one, so keep it to yourself! When you look at other videos, look for the mistakes or flaws in them. If you look hard enough they're always there because nobody is perfect. I've even spotted Felix slip a little. But even though that person made a mistake their video is still awesome, right? And yours is too. It's just that when you look at yourself you're looking at the flaws only. So remember that flaws don't stop you from being awesome.

With the trouble-shooting, it's understandable that you can't always figure out what you're doing wrong because it takes years of experience. It's probably better to ask someone more experienced.

Plus, it makes perfect sense from a motor learning perspective to go "That looks too slow, let's do it faster" and then just try to be faster without worrying about the specifics of how.

If it helps, my split grip is super slow too. I think the only thing I can do is get enough strength to do it on spinny.

[Cinara]

Well done! Knee hold is such a tricky one, and it's still eluding me. Any insights or tips on how you finally got it? Or did you just do it by not concentrating (talking to your friend)? I love how sometimes you just accidentally get a move. That's how I first got a split grip aysha: I got confused and thought I was in twisted grip! And I second pictures 🙂

[Cinara]

Ah, fair enough. Luckily, if you work on your hamstring flexibility you won't need more than about a foot anyway. I think I would have the same problem with my shoudlers if not for my hyperextended elbows. I'm a side-sleeper too. Good luck with the deep tissue massage, and keep stretching. 

[Cinara]

Try clasping your hands together behind your back before reaching them up to the pole. When I first started learning the iguana mount I had a lot of trouble getting my hands to come into contact with the pole, but once I clasped them together I could reach the pole, Once I had a good grip on it, the position wasn't even uncomfortable. For me it wasn't a lack of flexibility in the end position, but just a problem moving my arms towards the midline when they're behind me. It's worth giving it a go if you haven't already.

[Cinara]

Strangely enough, I grip stainless better than any other finish (though I've never used titanium). I agree that it's a good idea to practice without grip aids at first, and with skills your familiar with, but I think everyone has different skin, and different levels of sweat, so as you get more used to the pole, not requiring grip aids doesn't necessarily make you a better poler, perhaps just a luckier one.

For instance, I have very slippery hands, knee pits, shoulders and sides, and while I can improve the grip strength in my hands to counter the sweat, its not like I can really improve the grip strength of my sides. But I have very grippy thighs and will never need grip aids there. 

So, once you get used to the pole, what I find useful on stainless is a little bit of tite grip applied directly to the pole in the bits where you really need it. It saves you having to reapply it  to yourself for awhile too.

[Cinara]

I was taught a cradle with a split grip as a beginner move, and a split grip boomerang spin after about 8 weeks. These were easy for my instructor, I think because she's very tiny and lightweight, but for us more average to heavy people it takes more strength than you can get without a lot of training. (I am not overweight by any measure, so I really do mean average!)

At first my forearms were fine, because I have hyperextended elbows which bizarrely reduced pressure on my forearms. But of course, it put pressure on my elbows and I started getting tendonitis. So I watched that my elbows were not hyperextended and that strained my forearms badly, and they're still not entirely recovered after 9 months!

A lot of tricks are only advanced because they require more spatial awareness, or are more dangerous if you were to fall out of them. I agree with you, Veena that a lot of spins are very, advanced, even though some people assume they are easier than inversions. I am more scared of one handed spins than some drop moves! There are plenty of spins I don't even attempt yet.

[Cinara]

It definitely depends on the spin. I could do spins with at least one leg on the pole on static within about 6 weeks, but I do have a gymnastic background. Spins with one hand and at least one leg on the pole on spinny setting in about 2-3 months. One handed spins on static with legs off the pole… well I could do a few after about 6 months. And one-handed spins with both legs off the pole? I have done two different spins once each and I've been poling for a year. I find it takes less strength to hold an aysha (hands on, legs off upside down) than to hang off one hand on spin. (At least for me)

And as a cautionary tale: any spin where your hands are in a split grip should be counted as a one-handed spin. You can really injure your bottom hand if you place much weight on it when you spin with your thumb pointing down. I make sure I'm not even gripping the pole with my bottom hand, just placing it on the pole and pushing.

[Cinara]

I love the before and after idea! I'm also a "wait until I'm better" person, but I also suspect that no matter how good I get I'll still be thinking the same thing. So by that logic, only Felix is allowed to have music, (or insert other dancer, I have no internal scale of top poledancer goodness).

I really hesitate to dance to the songs I really like because I feel like if I'm not perfect I'm being disrespectful to the song or something. But the person who performed the song didn't say "I won't release this until I'm better", or they would have never released the song. So therefore they are not as good as they theoretically could be, so really by providing a backing for my dancing they are being just as disrespectful to me as I am to them…?? 

These are the things I have to tell myself.

But the arguments of hookedonpole are far mightier than any of my "logic". Thank you everyone for freeing me up to dance to songs I like. Yaaaaayyyyyy!

[Cinara]

Unless you're on fire, don't cancel classes. All it can take is one cancelled class for a customer to lose their momentum and stop coming. Try to have someone you can call in on a casual basis if you can't make a class.

When you first start a business, lots of your first customers will be your friends and family. But when you're working, you can't chat to them or spend more time on them. If you want to catch up, do it outside of fitness time. You can explain this to them before hand if you're worried they fee; snubbed. The same thing goes for your staff. They may be your best friends, but keep the palling around for outside work time. This sort of thing can really put off other customers and make them feel unwelcome – and a person who doesn't know you's word-of-mouth promotion is worth a lot more than a friends'.

Make sure you have a really professional website, and optimise your google/bing searching to help people find you.

Obviously you wouldn't say anything negative about your customers' bodies, but don't say anything negative about your own body either, or talk about dieting or losing weight (unless you are consulting someone on losing weight and have the qualification to do so). So many women are self-conscious about their bodies, especially in workout clothes, and any sort of focus on body image can make (at least me) feel uncomfortable.

[Cinara]

I just tried a cheating method to warm up my chrome x-pole. I put my heater about 15cm away from the pole and left it on for a few minutes. I also used vinegar, and then rubbed the pole really hard and also used Dry Hands. It made my pole the stickiest it's ever been. It was like brass (for like 5 minutes until my sweaty oily hands ruined it.)

Using spins and basic moves to warm up your pole is probably better, so you can discipline yourself to practice dance as well as tricks. But if you just want to warm up the pole quickly to do some strength or something, try a heater.

[Cinara]

I'm fairly sure it is the grip Felix uses, considering she's from/associated with Bobbi's where they teach it. I don't know necessarily think it's cheating, but it does seem to require much less strength than the other grips. As a downside it is quite awkward to connect to other moves because one hand is so high. The other grips would probably give you more versatility in terms of combos. I once tried to go into a brass monkey from this grip and ended up in a horrible tangle and had to slooowly slide down the pole in a big knot because there was nothing else I could do 🙂 

Also, UT I am so trying out your advice next time I'm on the pole!

[Cinara]

Looking at the pictures on Wikipole, I'm not entirely sure if it's a respect grip or princess grip I'm talking about. But you start standing to the side of the pole, with your inside hand above your head. Then, keep your inside hand there and walk your body in front of the pole until the pole is pressed against the shoudler of your inside arm (this is the unkind to wrists bit). The outside arm just grabs the same as you would in a cupped grip. Does that make sense? 

By the way, don't wrap your thumbs around the pole because it hurts like crazy!

It feels much more secure for my sweaty slippery hands, and seems to be much easier to use (for me), but it took a little while before my arm was comfortable in that position, and I don't know… I can just see awkward position + not controlled enough invert + bad luck/bad ligaments equalling injury. Still, it's the way it gets taught to heaps of girls at my studio and noone seems to get hurt…

But I don't think you can do a shoulder mount roll or get into a brass monkey from it, plus it's awkward to get into in the air, so I'm working on cupped and Veena grip now.

[Cinara]

Aargh some guys are just so frustratingly naturally strong. I've heard of guys who can just shoulder mount before. Usually I console myself by knowing that their body rolls and hip wiggles tend to look just plain sad 😉

As for the shoudler mount, I don't know that I can be much help as I'm struggling myself. I can only do it from a respect grip (I think?) which is not exactly the kindest thing you can do to your wrist. The main things that seem to help me are trying it from squatting on the floor first, making sure the pole is being pushed right into my shoulder, and thinking of pulling my legs back behind my shoulders, not straight up the pole.

[Cinara]

As someone currently writing up a PhD thesis that's related to motor learning*, I can confirm that having skills and losing them is 100% normal in the learning process. When you learn something new the way you do it will be subtly different all the time, and things like your balance point, which muscles you use, the exact positioning of your limbs, etc, etc will vary wildly. This is because your brain needs to work out exactly how to activate itself to get you to do the move, and it does so through trial and error.

In something like a gemini, you won't really notice how variable you are, because you have a huge margin for error where you can do it completely differently but still stick to the pole, and the only difference is in your lines. So even a reasonably large difference in how you do the trick will still technically be a gemini. In an aysha or a cartwheel, your balance is much more precarious so even a small variation will cause you to fall down.

The thing about learning a lot of skills very quickly (which is something I do too) is that it means that from a neurological point of view, you probably haven't mastered a lot of them. You need to keep repeating, and repeating, and repeating until all the variability goes away and your brain can give stable, consistent instructions to your muscles. Even then, every time you move to a different pole, lose or gain weight, get more flexible, get dehydrated, etc, it will make you more variable again. So you keep practicing, and gradually your brain gets better at compensating for all of those factors and you really master a move.

Personally, I can say that although I can aysha and sometimes cartwheel, I am still months away from mastering them. I face the same problem that I think you do that I get a big payoff for learning new tricks, but find it harder to feel happy about my improvements in fluidness, confidence, or consistency. And I wonder if you're as unfairly hard on yourself as I am on myself. So what do we do?

Amy's suggestion of working on some dance is a good one, because you haven't mastered any trick until you can work it into a dance. I can tell you now that while I'm advanced in terms of just getting up and doing tricks, I'm a solid intermediate when it comes to incorporating anything into dance. And almost still a beginner at free dancing. Seriously, the other day I inverted, got into a pole handstand and just froze up and didn't know what to do next. But incorporating tricks into dance will really help your brain learn to do them in different contexts. 

Also, video your dancing and combos, watch them back and black out the backgrounds on pictures like you already do. That will help you to notice your improvements in dance skills, and in your lines. I don't know how you black out the backgrounds, but I start out by drawing a black outline aroung myself in Paint.net which helps me really notice my lines. Hopefully that will help you to feel a sense of achievement out of mastering new moves as well as just learning them.

* I hope this all makes sense. I'm trying to recall Esther Thelen's fascinating work on dynamic systems theory as it relates to infant motor development and apply the theory to poledancing, so I hope I didn't get too cringe-inducingly pop science, or conversely too confusing. Incidentally my PhD is looking at dynamic systems theory as it applies to children's speech.

Sorry for the novel, but this is a really interesting topic to me. Sending lots of encouragement your way, and remember this is a totally normal part of the learning process.

[Cinara]

Here's some general advice that really helped me get this move:

1. Make sure your head is above your hands

2. If you're going from a pole climb and sit, start inverting as soon an you release so you can use a bit of momentum: don't just hang by your hands (unless you're building strength)

3. Invert in a tuck position, and only extend your legs once you're all the way upside down – it's not quite as impressive but still pretty enough.

4. Don't think about lifting your legs straight up. Instead think of bringing them back over your shoulders.

5. It's slightly easier on a spinning pole.

Even with all this it's a seriously tiring move. I can do it, but after a few times my technique starts to fall off.

[Cinara]

I know the rough heels problem well. I hate shoes and only wear them when being barefoot would not be socially acceptable (or they're six inch platforms and I'm poling) so I am somewhat prone.. When it's a minor case I usually just use a pumice stone on my heels when I have a shower. But when they get really rough or cracked sometimes it isn't enough.

The one thing I've had work and seen work for other people is this heel cream called Eulactol here in Australia. It's an Australian-made product so you'd either need to order online from an Australian online pharmacy, or find something with similar ingredients in the US. From what I read, I think urea is the main active ingredient, but here's the ingredient list I found online:

purified water, urea, lanolin, petrolatum, decyl oleate, dicoyl pentaerythrityl distearyl citrate, propylene glycol, microcrystalline wax, dimethicone, glyceryl oleate, carbomer, triethanolamine, aluminium stearate, methylparaben, propylparaben, butylparaben, ethylparaben, propyl gallate, citric acid, bha, fragrance.