Charley
Forum Replies Created
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Haha I like that do combo one. Naming combos is a good idea. When we do tumbles its either Veena or Jenyne, super easy! Maybe naming combos is where we can get creative. If associate a move or combination with a person I remember it better anyway.
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Pegasus, I hope you didn’t read any disrespect in my posts towards owners. There are many, many reasons I don’t own a pole studio. I’ve seen first hand what owners go through with staff, product and clients plus having lives. It’s very difficult. I have mad respect for all of the owners out there, even the ones who aren’t “doing it right” because there is a lot that goes into it and first time owners are learning and struggling too. It’s a journey and should be understood some times people put too much pressure on a single person when they aren’t happy with a situation.
As for discounts, i think it’s great to offer them wisely. I think groupons and the like can be great but you have to be ready for them, this is something that I think gets missed. One studio I worked at used to have pre-groupon meetings where we all sat down and got ready for a big influx of students. This was so great for us instructors, we were told the deal, told how to work with all the new people and basically got ready for the hurricane. Groupon time has been some of the best classes I’ve ver taught because its really a lot of girls like grey eyes that never thought they’d try it but saw a good deal and spontaneously ended up on the pole- these are my favorite clients. It’s a great opportunity to share with someone who otherwise wouldn’t!
The only voucher customers I hate are the ones that are the ones that buy the deal then try to adapt it, like take classes not covered under the groupon and be moved into more advanced classes. I don’t even mind the ones that can only afford to come on voucher and will ask when is the next deal because this expensive and we all have families and lives. I think most studios do a good job cs wise with vouchers, some of the deals sting a bit, lol. By and far the biggest culprit in my area of bad treatment for voucher clients is yoga studios, they will overbook classes, not respond and when you show up treat you like a #. I don’t like that, I’m not educated in yoga so I’m buying a groupon to check out your establishment because I am the client who will throw down in unlimited packages. I’ve not seen that out of most pole studios and none in my area.
I’d also advise instructors who left a studio due to interpersonal issues and want to open a studio to reflect inside for a bit about their own behavior in the undoing of that relationship. You really have to recognize what went wrong without just blaming the owner. It takes two to undo, even if your part was small. Really reflect on the cost and work it takes to run a business. Really consider if that’s what you want to do. Maybe the owner was disconnected with you because she had a big plateful. Think about everything you saw, everything you know about the person you worked for, everything that bothered you and consider really consider if you’re ready to make that step and if you think you can do it. Not do it better, just do it. I’ve been out of studios for a year now, have looked at spaces, crunched numbers and I’m sitting here not owning a studio currently. If you do choose to open your own space, make sure you’re providing your unique product and not someone else’s and be sure to reach out your previous boss. I need a charley bubble to feel safe which why I’ve long conidered opening a space but I’ve let my 2 previous boss’s know that’s where my head is at. One even offered me a job again, lol. Being a good instructor isn’t the same as running a business.
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Me too Veena, I float between mainstream names
and more descriptive terminology like inside leg fireman for the Hollywood or French fireman and criss cross fireman for the standard…etc, what gets tricky for me is transitions or variations on things then I call it the “Veena thing”. The “Marlo thing”. Etc. lol -
If you plan to teach at your home or anyone else’s I recommend studio coverage, this is what I have. Instead of teaching at my house, I give lessons at client houses, this gets me out of the issue of running a business out of my residentially zoned home, I avoid having to discuss it with my homeowners insurance, etc. I go,through insurance for pole dancers and was told the studio coverage covers me for this and I am able to take on employees (w2 employees not contractors) and they are also covered under my insurance. If you’re an independent contractor you are not covered under the studio policy. I was told I would be covered to teach from my house but I don’t like involving my home in possible liability. Studio coverage also covers subletting too like using a yoga or dance studio, I believe general instructor insurance does as well. Look Into it at http://www.insurance4poledancers.com. They can explain the differences better than I can. I pay 500/year but its worth it to me. Instructor insurance is about 270-300/yr. it’s less than car insurance either way, but if you tell the, what you’re doing they can guide into the right product.
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Yay! Yay! Yay! Thank you so much Webby! This will help me stay up to date on SV vids! I hate when I get behind. Oh thank you!
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Last I heard Aerial Amy had found another company that does pole insurance but you can’t teach in heels. I would suggest writing her on here or Facebook for more info. I also hold a policy with them for studio insurance (haha cuz I have no studio.). I would also write Val Schrader at Infinity Aerial, I think she has a policy through another company that also covers her aerial teaching.
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Webby- yes! I have used these sites personally to find great businesses I still use. The biggest issue with these vouchers in regards to pole is that many times voucher clients are treated like voucher clients. Often times the product is so under priced that the leap to making someone a full on paid client is difficult. I’ve seen stupid deals like $20/20 yoga classes. Really? Is the product that bad that you are charging $1/class? That’s way too cheap. You have to be smart about these kinds of deals, offer incentives for clients to stay and keep in line with regular cost. Understand you will get studio bouncers and those who are curious but not committed. You’ve got one chance to make their experience amazing, be prepared for the over flow of phone calls and make scheduled classes readily available and don’t over book classes just because there are a lot of voucher holders in them. Give them the same respect you would a full paying client.
I have seen these work first hand, I’ve always had girls stay, I have had girls say they aren’t into pole and its not for them too, you can kind of tell. Timing is critical also with these deals.
Veruca, I’d love to come visit your family, that just sounds so awesome!
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Veruca- awesome point, those vouchers are great for new clients to,give it a try but it also results in students in not feeling they should ever pay full price because they can pick up cheap classes everywhere. I had a student buy a groupon to a studio and ask to be moved up to the level she’s at and even wanted me to ask the studio for her. I felt that was kind of wrong. While she hadn’t been to that studio before I worked there i know their product well and it’s an awesome place to take classes, I felt like at her experience level she shouldn’t be trying out a place just to get cheap classes. I refused to vouch for her. I felt really upset for the studio because I know this is my regular, she doesn’t plan to spend any real money with the studio…feels really wrong.
When I worked at 2 studios simultaneously I would often see the same student at both locations because of this too. They’d spend the real money on studio A and buy vouchers for studio B which is fine if you’re checking out a new place but not so much when you have no intention of paying regular prices.
I’ve had some great retention with groupons in my classes though when I used to,teach at studios, around 50 percent would stay on.
I agree multilevel,is a great way to teach but for me I like to keep total newbies in flow classes that use only basic moves and then move them into a multilevel trick focused class. It’s still tough some days for me, I have to be really careful to make sure everyone is feeling good especially with a couple of super human girls I have. I wouldn’t want my human girls to feel bad or vice versus. It’s definitely getting into a groove with everyone and making it about the love of pole and not out tricking, not letting people get overly competitive. I like smaller groups and pole sharing but I am not sure that’s marketable in my area since everyone seems to have moved to 1/pole. I like the buddy system though, my classes are much tighter because of it, they really enjoy each other more this way.
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I kinda like being on my own now. There was nothing wrong with any of the studios I’ve worked, I think I’m just really creative and really stubborn so working with others as just a team member is hard, I like to manage and be in charge and create and get tons of credit hahahaha!
I used to manage a music shop that sold guitars and stuff like that and I can say from that experience I learned that musicians often made the worst sales people and they were never, ever on time, they sold what they liked not what buyers needed necessarily and they’re so passionate, you’ll get a fender guy talking smack about every other guitar out there and the guy in front of them wants to buy a Gibson, lol! That passion makes them amazing artists but really poor sales people. I think the same rings true with pole. I’m very passionate about my methods which makes me a great teacher for some, I’ve had students say I’m the best they ever had, (and even more so think im off my freaking rocker) but in turn it makes me a crappy employee/contractor because I’m so pigheaded. I can be very judgmental when it comes to teaching, I gravitate towards certain kinds of instructors when I take classes and I like very specific things in teachers so even on that level I’m hard to please. So, I know that on inside of a studio I’m difficult so then I think that’s just me and the owner is having to work around just me and my stuff, I know the other instructors have their issues and quirks too so it’s kind of a management nightmare when you are building a great team, product aside. The more passionate an instructor is the more likely heads will butt and then you get 5 or 6 in a room and its explosive. The best teams seems to have specific players that are great in a particular area. One of the teams I was one had the floor/sexy girl, the dancer girl and me the trick girl. We all were good at stuff the others did incredibly well but it felt like special ops in a way, the floor girl would come to my class for tricks, I’d go to her class to polish my floor and get my sexy one and the dancer girl would help us with combos and transitions and we all just gelled because we had our thing. I’ve also seen teams of similar instructors work too, it doesn’t work for me though. By far some of the best instructors I’ve had were the ones that weren’t super artistic and crazy out there and could just teach a move, lol. Which is weird because I think I’d like crazy but I guess I want to be the insane one with ideas, I need a grounded person (unless is Choreo then the weirder the better.)
I will also say that by and large the things I’ve noticed and heard about that contribute to the demise of studios is not having the right instructors (applies to personality and skill) and generally no management and an absent owner. In many cases owners have other jobs to support the studio in the early days, and you need to because its not cheap. It’s not their fault even but it sure makes everything harder, it’s really expensive to pay someone to man phones and emails, that’s a desk job that requires minimum wage and insurance, so I get why so many people try to own a studio, work a job and have a family…I have so much respect for the hard working owners out there because help is expensive and your time is limited. Everyone is doing the best they can.
If you can run a successful studio with happy instructors that like each other and happy clients, you can literally do anything, and I know women who do. It’s amazing when it happens.
My final thought too is lack of education. Studios need to be constantly educating themselves somehow. I like teacher training right now vs cert as I did a cert and don’t really feel like renewing because its an expense that doesnt really net me new knowledge, when I’ve proven I know all the info at that level and can competently teach it. I think many pole studios live on having a great dancer/trickster/performer on staff and promote that but don’t spend enough time studying the physical aspects, the teaching, the grips, the techniques, etc. just because you taught yourself doesn’t mean you can teach it to someone else, that’s where it comes back to management and regular staff practices are very handy plus regular staff training. I don’t think you have to have a celebrity come necessarily but keeping up on pole and its growth will help provide a better product.
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Pole is a tough business. Unlike other fitness programs ours is not just a general work out, do what you can program it’s skill based. Each skill will require certain techniques along with strength and flexibility, that means its individual, what you may love to do may be impossible for another due to body type, fitness/flexibility level and let’s not forget fear factor. I’ve had girls with little pole experience (time) and be amazing, working on super mans and Aisha’s because they have a pole at home, YouTube, Veena lessons and in one case had been a gymnastics coach and aerialist for several years. So as a professional I have to decide does this amazing superhuman go to basic classes where she will be bored even though she needs to learn the simple stuff or do I teach her at her skill level and help her accomplish all those crazy inverted combos she’s already working on? She’s also the most advanced student I see and no one is near her trick level…how do,I challenge her and my less experienced students who have more actual time on the pole? It isn’t fair to make her do privates, its not fair to make her take a super basic newbie class, its not fair to,pair her with others who are the most advanced but still below her skill set. It’s an issue. Now, with this story being shared ill say this girl is lovely, I adore her and she has been very supportive of others, she’s humble, she’s very sweet and amazing and the others love to watch her. For this to be the case I had to work really hard around everyone’s feelings to create a super loving environment, which we have. But it’s work and communication, being honest with all of my students about themselves, myself and others.
So,to the op…I think the biggest issue with many companies pole or not, is customer service and honesty. When you begin to think you are the best product for a student instead of adapting your product to the client, issues arise. When an issue arises in a classroom it’s felt by everyone.
I’ve worked for myself and 2 studios. On the business side of things one studio was really cut and dried, I like the owner a lot and I admire her. She had set rules, standards and guidelines for classes, checking in and basically everything. She managed without micromanaging. It was a great studio but a studio that a student would have a difficult time getting really advanced at, like competition advanced. Which is fine for many students but for some they want the tricks and combos. What is good about her system is that its known that she caters to everyday women, its really upfront that this is an empowerment studio. It’s a great product, great service for a great price….but it’s not for everyone.
The other studio I worked at wasn’t as much of a well oiled machine, it was newer. The owner had like 6 jobs which made it hard to connect sometimes and be up to date with what was going on plus it was hard for students to get in touch with her because she was working so much and so hard. The product there was much more trick based which presents a problem to the average person as pole is difficult. It was a multilevel class plan which meant seasoned students might be in a class with first timers making instruction difficult for me as a teacher. I’m not capable of managing that drastic of skill sets, I need everyone to be at least seasone beginners climbing, adept at basic spins and transitions to do multilevel. I helped build this studios program so I can tell you first hand how many times we changed things based on new scenarios that came up. It was a learning experience to see what kind of clients came in, what they wanted, what happened in classes, what rules needed to be made, etc. this studio did a lot of things wrong and had to learn to do them right. I think that’s normal with a new business. They have adapted well and since I left are doing great. I have friends that work there, including the owner, whos been just awesome to me, and it’s turned into a well oiled machine after some internal struggles (me) and many reinventions.
I think most people will do a lot wrong in their first years, because there isn’t a simple equation to pole businesses. It’s a lot of things. It’s reinvention constantly without losing your brand. It’s managing the needs of specific people in a group atmosphere. It’s providing a great atmosphere. No matter how great your pole product is, it’s not for everyone, you’re not for everyone. We’re women and thus tend to people please and take things personally, it’s hard to stay out of drama and not share your hurt feelings when someone goes off somewhere else or opens their own business. Because pole is so vastly different to so many people its a hard business to run. I’d love to have my own space, I’m also afraid of it. Right now I make little money but I can teach small groups and one to one and really cater, I know I won’t be able to as much once I’m back in a studio.
Sorry that’s a book,those are my thoughts, I think it’s tricky. And everyone will have a different perspective on what makes a great studio. I think you just have to build your version of pole, believe in it and hope others drink the koolaid, lol.
One more thought, managing a pole studio is a b!$?! Because you have so many different personalities and vulnerabilities and egos. I know for me as an instructor I am impossible to manage. I do what I like, I teach the way I believe in, I do not like to share how I teach or choreography with other instructors who are not paying for my time, especially when they are less experienced and not certified, not at my level and I can’t learn from them. I don’t want to come up with good ideas for someone else’s business, I am not a team player. I’m insecure, like to compensated for everything I do and am just not a fun business associate because of my issues. I’ve only found one person who could work with me and get me drinking her koolaid, I don’t know how she did it. I liked being on her team and I loved my coworkers to tears. I think it’s because we all loved each other so much and respected each other and worked with each other that it felt like a family. And in the end when I left it was pretty much because I was still on Charley island and feeling commitment phobic. I’m on,y throwing myself under the bus to show that its not just the customer side of things but internal things too and I recognize I can be a nightmare, although I do show up on time and have great retention, lol. In all cases of me leaving studios I’m still friends with the owners and teachers and respect them a lot. I do see how having someone like me is both a benefit and deficit though and can affect a business. You can’t have someone with their own brand that conflicts with yours.
So there are a lot of issues internally and externally that can bring a place down. You need a great team, good service, good product and a lot of koolaid. Oh the people skills needed!
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The legs aren’t a big deal and I’ve used mine loads in the basement without the legs out. You will need them for spin but they pop in and out pretty easily. A freestanding pole without legs like that is much less stable and moves around a lot.
The stand alone is best used for studios on a budget that need something inexpensive to showcase basic things, they can also be great for party instructors if you buy the cart, then you don’t worry about ceiling height and it lighter than the x. But for a do it all pole stick with x-pole.
I know you’re looking for a used one to get a deal so keep an eye out for events, sometimes x-pole provides stage poles for special events and they sell them at a nice discount.
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The video that sv did shows perfectly. From my experience and I’m 5’5 120ibs its pretty good. I do recommend weights for spinning mode as does X-pole. It also depends on your floor surface, mine is much better on carpet I’ve seen a light slide across a tile floor before without weights and without the feet extended. I really love the lite, I had the stand alone and it literally would slide around my basement. The xstage is much heavier and does not, with feet in.
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They’ve redone this pole a couple times now, I am not sure if its better than the original model I had or not. If you want a cheap stand alone for expos where you will be doing mostly beginner things I recommend this pole but if you are doing big tricks or performances I really highly encourage you to get the x stage. I love my x stage a fully trust it. It’s be through hundreds of performers and stood up!
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Floor work! Working on really posing out and using your legs slowly. Almost all floor work we do will strengthen your core, I do lots of floor work dances to work out my core and I move super slow, after one song my abs burn. 🙂
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My favorite is to go into a figurehead and shoulder mount back up. You can also turn sideways and go into a v and jazzman too. Working a new superman drop…will post if its possible.
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I’m fairly small and I love the 40, I had one up for several months and many students seemed to love it as well. Ask pole if you can return the unneeded extension for the right one. Worst case scenario, you don’t like th 40 and you put it back on eBay for what you paid :). Then get a new one. Personally I think the 45 is th eperfect size for everyone. Spoke has great customer service I’m sure they will help.
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Kelly is amazing! I will warn she’s really busy! She coaches everyone and their sister so if you have a tough timeline make sure you tell her and have everything ready to send, song, vids, etc. if you choose her you will not be disappointed. I think Kelly is the busiest woman in pole! I adore her and highly recommend her. Michelle stanek whom I’ve not worked with does Skype too. I’ve heard incredible things about everyone at B&P.
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Try yoga direct or amazon. I got mine from yd. 🙂
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Chemmie, it’s so amazing each year to see everyone and see new performers of all levels and our stars all sharing the stage in unity with respect and love for each other. You and your hubby seriously saved my booty a bunch this past year, thank you sooo much! I couldn’t have done it without your help.
So if anyone ever wants to see or participate Ina large open showcase pm me! We define beauty standards in my opinion. You can also check out head over heals, Florida pole showcase and aerial Amy’s NYC showcase. There are many, many more popping up too! For anyone who wants to compete Amy Guion does PSO and has levels 1-4 so anyone can compete, it’s pay to play, no entry videos. There are alot of great events opening up all over for all of us. There is also pole con and pole expo I’m not sure how to go about performing at them though but I know you can. I recommend attending a pole event if you can especially if you are feeling down its just such a boost. The events is where you will see all shapes, sizes, colors and genders.
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@Chemmie, I just adore you and I love th fact we can discuss these things and grow. With Claire, most of her combos and her floor work were my ideas and she had to learn moves and holds very quickly and she blew my freaking mind! I loved doing a piece for her because its not how I dance at all. We are working on something right now that is super exciting, for me, anyway. She’s still really new to pole and its easy to forget that when she’s sooo strong. I’d say 25% of the routine you saw had stuff that she had to learn in under a month, smooth it out and make it flow. She has a very natural grace on the pole making her a dreamto work with. She’s also very charismatic on stage. We’ve made a good team because the stuff I’m bad at she’s a beast at the stuff she’s bad at, I’m good at. She doesn’t have a big pole vocabulary yet because its been so little time on the pole but she’s quickly learning new things and learning how to put them together. She’s growing exponentially. Her concept of that piece was very challenging to work with but she pulled it off so beautifully. I get ideas for her a lot and will call her and be like “this would be a cool idea, what do you think?” Together we make it happen. My friend Kathleen steps in at the end and goes over stage stuff with her as Kat does for me as well.
To the op. I’d Facebook whomever you want to work with they might Skype. I highly recommend Phienix especially if its just tweaks you need. She’s very affordable and freaking priceless to work with.
I don’t think everyone needs a coach or trainer but I believe everyone has someone in their life that fills that role. My Kat and I are always coming up with ideas for each other and playing with them. Again it’s more like I think you should dance to this song. It could be this or that. Never here’s your moves and 8 count and that’s what chemmie is saying. Part of the awesome part of pole is that you can move in a non standard way. There is not choreography dating back a thousand years. I also agree with what’s been said about artist interpretation. I teach a lot of Choreo and everyone does it differently. Which I love. I actually teach my comp routine (portions) to my upper level girls so I can see it on different bodies and I get inspired and make changes so stores based on what I see. It’s innovation vs recreation. Chemmies just sayi h shed rather see a piece that is wholly the artist even if they worked with a coach vs a recreated winning piece that has no significance to the artist. Right?
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You can do it from chopsticks 🙂
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I think this a great topic. If we don’t continue to question things as the community we could find ourselves one day with a broken system. For as big as it is, pole is still really small, small enough to know everyone, it keeps most people honest but one day it won’t be.
I’d never have realized what the pros go through either had I not worked with a few. I’ve had a few stay with me during events and they’ve been so open and awesome about their lives and even pole. They all really love the pole world even if they don’t have time to come on here. They do read what we write and are aware. So do pole companies and a thread like this might inspire them to sponsor an unknown or even question their own marketing methods and maybe take on performers who are more artistic and less fonji,lol. This is a great topic for keeping marketing methods in check. I think on a smaller level this beauty standard that gets pushed everywhere in our lives has led me to personally want to showcase and promote dancers with different body types and abilities. I run a yearly showcase in Michigan that features about 50 everyday dancers and a few pros. It’s such a love fest and so inspiring.
And one more thing I thought of. At one point, and I’m not sure what the relationship is now, but Lulu aka minicoupergirl was a sponsored athlete with Platinum Stages. I loved that. Lulu inspires me because she continues to compete and perform right along side the teensiest of girls. She puts on a show! Extremely entertaining and very bendy, she also blogs about her life here sometimes about competing in high level comps and making costumes. She’s been on tv spreading pole love and spreading the message that you don’t have to be a size 2. I really admire her both as a performer and a spokesperson.
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I understand what you are saying chemmie. It’s the difference between an artist and an athlete. The difference between a singer and a song writer.
I love having a choreographer to help bring my vision alive. I will also say the downside for me, and Kelly and I have had this conversation, is that I don’t trust myself enough. I really rely on getting a thumbs up from someone when I don’t have to. I tend to start over analyzing everything and stop putting myself into it because I want perfection. So, I’d say part of Kelly’s job in woking with me is helping me trust my own ideas and decisions, which she is a billion percent supportive of.
For what it’s worth all 3 trainers I’ve worked with have all sat down and said what do you have? Kelly this last time gave me the option of having her put together combos for me or I could do it, I ended up using a mix because my pole wasn’t tall enough to safely run through the combos. All of the things she gave me were based on a list of videos I sent her. I did one Skype with Phoenix and it was more about taking what I had a cleaning up the lines and feet. When I worked with Leigh Ann it was about conveying the character through my body so we did a ton of acting/dance exercises.
I think newer dancers and those without a dance background benefit huge from having a coach. I’d say every time I’ve worked with someone it’s been more coaching than anything. It’s paying someone with a broader knowledge base to bring it all together with me.
For those whom I do every step for, typically they are newer dancers that don’t have a lot of pole knowledge. Usually proling under a couple of years. I can say too. That they all come back with their own themes and ideas once they get through the process of putting a piece together.
Kelly and Leigh Ann have been so instrumental in my dancing and teaching. They’ve given me so much beyond this move then that one. They’ve both helped me understand my body better and being able to work with them I’ve come up with my own methods of choreography that I wouldn’t have otherwise explored. I would work them outside of competition but its so expensive that I can really only justify it during those times.
I’d also like to think through working with a few of my girls I’ve done the same thing.?
I do understand though chemmie, you want to see the artists creativity and have it be their vision, not a winning piece from someone else’s head. I think most of the time we are seeing the artist and her vision she just had help. I know for I’ve always had control over my vision but I’ve gotten help with the areas I questioned.
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I hope that’s not true chemmie. Omg! Chemmie is in my auto correct! Love!
I do think for some comps they may desire sue sky clean winners or more all American looking but everyone should have a fair shake. I believe in my heart we are getting away from this. I know one comp for sure wants a spokesperson/awesome poler and they have a q&a round like a pageant. I see no harm in this as its put there as part of why they do, it’s when you don’t know that it’s an issue….
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Tiny hands here! I can do almost all my tricks on a 50. Lifts are harder because I can’t grip as well and I don’t feel secure but I can perform them. I can’t even touch fingers on a 45, so super small. I found when I used better technique the 50 was much easier, I had to I prove my shoulder, bicep and tricep strength before I could utilize the 50 to my best which translated to better tricks on the 45. I don’t love 50s because it just never feels good but you can get get there. I used to teach on 50s and after a few minutes wouldn’t notice. Also try gloves for added security. Gives me way more confidence :). There are tricks I can’t do on a 50 if they require grip changes rapidly like the Phoenix or fonji. Hang in there I swear it gets better.
