Catsanctuary177663 started this discussion ·
Just wanted to pop in and say how grateful I am for Veena because this is what's out there on YouTube as "beginner". It is a miracle we don't have people becoming quadriplegics. http://youtu.be/nMPO4xYvCmA
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Seeing videos like this one makes me so damn angry! Is she making fun of us???? Thanks for posting though as this reminds me again of what an awesome pole teacher we have. Veena, you're the best!!!!
I don't consider those to be beginner level either. She does however, explain what beginner level means to her and it makes more sense to understand where she is coming from. I think she could select a more appropriate word like fundamental pole tricks , or something. After I read her explanation it made more sense. But I do feel this is very confusing and misleading for someone who is a true beginner or wanting to start pole. She does explain that some of these moves may take a few years to master. I think it's just a poor choice of words and not intentional misleading.
You are right, Phoenix. I just read her explanation and the video makes more sense to me now. But still, the word "beginner" is very misleading. If not dangerous. "Fundamental" would be more appropriate, but then you don't necessarily have to be able to do a straight legged invert to proceed with upside down tricks, just to name one example. Thank you for discovering her explanation below the video, I am less angry now :-) But still very happy to have Veena and this community and to not learn on youtube...
Hehe! no, I totally agree with you it is misleading and you really dont have to do things like aerial straight leg invert to progress. :) Ive been poling 2 years and still can do those! and I can still do alot of things. yes,I'm glad we have this website too! youtube can be very dangerous for learning for sure. I almost get a little frustrated that people dont respect pole enough to get lessons here or at a studio. I understand there are some very talented people who just do it on their own. But I hear so many girls saying they will just use youtube. it's like they think this is easy or something. no one would ever say I'm gonna learn how to do gymnastics uneven bars from youtube. I dont need a gymnastics coach! it doesnt get the proper respect for difficulty, safety, etc. And I've had people tell me,well I do cross-fit, I lift weights, I will be fine. Pole doesnt get the recognition it deserves. But I have also found that alot of those people quit. they try it, realize its not something they are good at right away and they give up. Pole is hard. not all of it is hard, but what most people tell me they want to do is hard. Inverting is hard. period. and people expect to invert their first day. Some do invert their first day but it doesnt mean they are doing it safely. ugggghhhhhh! ok, I will stop ranting. hahahaha!
Yes, let's stop ranting :-) We both agree... We love pole because it is hard, because we have to fight for it, and we take it seriously because we love it. And we don't want anybody dancing in front of our noses telling us it is easy, or that we have to do aerial straight leg inverts to consider ourselves real pole dancers with fundamental skills. Because we are. And the aerial straight leg invert will be ours one day. Yay!!!
Hahahaha! Yes! It's so true! Aerial straight leg inverts shall be ours one day! :)
Straight legged inverts are about style, imo, and not a requirement for anything. You could potentially conquer every pole love and never actually do a straight leg invert
I seen the same video too!. That's ridiculous. I also bought my first video with my pole and it has the Teddy as part of the beginner routine as well Too much stuff that's inappropriate for beginners out there. Funny thing is I kept trying to do it because it was considered beginner, so I thought I should be able to do it then. Thank. God I came across Veena's lessons and if I'm not mistaken the Teddy is under advanced. Oh yeah thanks Veena I can do the Teddy now lol
Veena ·
Thank you all for the kind comments. I do wish the term beginner would be used with a bit more caution, many people leave pole or end up injured because someone on YT said a new dancer should be able to do XY and Z. I know YT posters often have good intentions (sometimes they just want views) but I understand that a poster may not be aware of how they could be affecting someones progress or potential so speaking poorly of them or writing anything nasty to them is never a good solution. I know you guys aren't saying that's what we should do, but just putting that out there for anyone who comes across this thread! I truly do have a passion for creating a safe space that feels encouraging instead of discouraging. Videos like the one linked in above is one of the many reasons why I wanted the Veena Method course to be free. I want pole to grow, and grow!!!
Very true Veena. In fact I don't think the intention of her video is to teach. I feel she is showcasing her skills and actually showing people that pole does require a lot of skill and training. YouTube is actually a good venue to do that. You just have to let people do their thing and just use your own judgment.
I guess she meant basics.
That's kind of what I was thinking too
Sorry, didn't mean to come off so negative, I just came across that and was appalled. It is hard for me to stick to the order Veena has things in but I know they are in that order for a reason. Thanks Veena!
Catsanctuary, I dont think you came across negative at all. :)
Veena ·
Oh I don't think you came off as negative either 💜
i remember watching that video when i first started doing pole and thinking man i am not good as a beginner lol. after almost a year i am still working on my invert but everything takes practice. lol
Not everyone can afford cyber or studio lessons. I don't think people who try to learn with Youtube are saying it's easy at all...and if they think it is, they will learn otherwise within the first hour of trying. lol
You are correct Christina not everyone trying to learn from YouTube has that mind set. I should have said that I am referring to specific people I personally know who had that mindset. And I was thinking of them when I said that. I think some people don't respect how challenging pole is because the people who are good make it look so effortless. Please forgive my statement I didn't mean to generalize all people learning by YouTube, not at all. I don't want to put down people who have no other choice at all. I have much respect for those who are trying to learn even though they can't afford lessons. I have been there myself at one time and I understand. :)
Sorry for the novel of a post, I just have a lot of thoughts on this. I actually found this exact video 8-9 months ago, before I had gotten back into classes at my local studio. I didn't know much of anything about pole back then, only that I loved it and wanted to learn more, and I had heard girls say they had learned or wanted to learn from YouTube videos so that's where I went. I have to admit I didn't read the description or the comments, I just saw that the video was titled "beginner" and marked it in my phone as "moves I should work on." This was a little before I had my basic invert, so it definitely made me feel bad about myself that I couldn't do most of these tricks that were apparently "beginner tricks." I also feel like that was part of the reason I started working on my aerial invert WAY too soon after I got my basic invert from the ground, which meant I was kicking into it. It's still kind of a habit for me to kick into aerial inverts, even though I know it's bad and that I'm strong enough to lift myself into it. The description does make it a bit better, but it's still incredibly misleading when the common understanding of "beginner" is very different from how she's using it. It also bothers me that she says almost every trick begins with an invert. I can think of quite a few advanced tricks that begin with a CAR/CKR, a witch sit, etc. There's also quite a few beginner (or slightly past beginner but not quite intermediate, at my studio it's classified as novice level) things that can be done aerially that don't require an invert. I was recently thinking about how much happier I would have been if I had gone back into classes sooner, since I would have been less focused (and miserable) with trying to get my basic invert and having more fun learning the other stuff that WAS within my ability. If I had read the description, I would have been incredibly discouraged to see her say that. I also can't believe she says that you're at beginner level until you have your full front and middle splits. Bodies are so different and flexibility training takes so much time, it just kind of boggles my mind to see someone say that. There's a ton of advanced stuff I've been working on that doesn't require full splits in any direction, and I think it would have made me feel incredibly hopeless if I had read that, say, a year ago. I don't want to be too negative about this, though. I think I see what she was trying to do - I agree with Phoenix, I think she was trying to show how challenging pole dance is by saying in the description that the fundamentals/basics take months or years to learn and take lots of conditioning to be able to do. I give her credit for that, I just think she didn't communicate that very well in some ways. I agree with Phoenix that I've definitely seen that kind of dismissive "I'll learn it on YouTube" attitude, and it really bothers me because it's clear those people aren't taking it seriously as an art/sport. Obviously not everyone who uses YouTube as a tool for learning pole dance are treating it that way - I saw a video interview with Nicole "The Pole" where she said she primarily learned off of YouTube - but I just can't shake the feeling that it needs to be approached very carefully. There's so much on YouTube - and so much crap on YouTube, like the videos that Veena mentioned saying beginners should be able to do XY and Z - that I feel like you have to know something going in to not get lost, hopeless, or injured. I've definitely used YouTube videos at times, but I felt like it was the most useful when I had the basics of a move down already and wanted to learn variations. I also feel like even decent tutorials aren't anywhere near as detailed as a lesson really should be. I know not everyone can afford studio lessons, but it just feels really dangerous to use YouTube to learn a ton of new stuff, since a 3-4 minute video can only tell you so much, and it would be easy to miss something and get injured. That said, I am so so happy that SV exists as a resource for those who want to learn online :) I don't have the lessons mainly because I don't have a home pole and I am NOT comfortable trying new things at work (the poles are a bad width for me, are rarely cleaned, there's dangly light fixtures on the ceiling above the stage, the floors are plexiglass or something, there's pressure to get everything perfect on the first try when you're on stage). If I had a pole at home, though, I would get them in a heartbeat. It's awesome to see such a detailed resource and such a dedicated woman putting it all out there :)
tacha666 ·
I too feel that the headline is a bad choice of words. I do get the Point though. She demonstrates very good form, and I totally agree that everyone should work on these things until you can do them pretty before moving on. I've seen so many people who want that one trick, that is currently the rage, no matter what it takes and how to get into it, just to get that one photo to post on social media. I wish they would just get back and practise pretty climbing and inverting. To me, the hardest trick is bs if you can't get in and out safely and with good form.
tacha666 - That's totally true, I wasn't even thinking about that... people charging ahead and trying to get the "cool" fad tricks before they even have basics down is definitely a problem. Also the whole idea of "fad tricks" seems like BS to me, not every trick is right for every body and every dance style, it is so much more important to have good basics. I see the point now too, I wasn't even considering that.
Honestly, though, I must admit I thought learning pole would be easier than it is. I thought I would learn it all from YouTube, but I was wrong. I plan on saving up for lessons...and spending plenty of time in these forums. ^_^
Veena ·
I'm so happy my lessons have helps so many!!! For those reading this who are new to SV, I feel this might be a good thread to mention why I charge for my lessons.... 1. I have many free options for everyone on YT, it's not about the money for me. 2. The website is not free to run by any means, hosting video and everything else that goes along with studioveena does cost a significant amount each month. 3. I don't travel and do workshops to make money, this is my only job so it is also payment for my time spent here helping. Which I LOVE to do! 4. I feel I have the easiest method for learning and have spent years of my life working on this. If I won a million dollars and could provide this website for free I would! 5. I do not sell anything other than lessons, anything I share, or recommend like poles or clothing are done because I like the product. I am not payed by anyone, I just like to help! 6. We have to pay for advertising. Our followers on FB will not see what I post if we don't pay money. The only way they would is through shares but shares are hard to come by if you are not posting crazy pole tricks. 7. I feel we have the best value and many people would drop 20 dollars on eating out or buying things they don't need without over thinking it. Yet because there are sooooo many free tutorials out there it causes many to assume my lessons are no different than whats free. They are! When you purchase lessons you are not only getting the best online instruction you're also supporting the site as a whole. xoxoxo
tacha666 ·
I agree 100%. And I think it is totally legitimate that you have to pay in order to get something of value. Honestly, I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't find this site. I learned so much here, and it was an awesome preparation to become a teacher myself. I had a discussion about the whole money issue with a friend who also runs her own studio. We came to the conclusion, that of course it is nice to offer something for free or very few money, but then People don't see it's value. She actually had to raise her prices and guess what: she has now more students than before. Because they believe that paying a higher price means they get something superior. Also from personal observation, I noticed that if something doesn't cost anything, it seems not worth anything either to many people. If you have to work hard in order to get something (lessons, car, house, ...) you treat and view it differently than you would if you could constantly have everything for free or without any effort.
Honestly, Veena, I was thinking that your prices are an absolute steal for what you offer. I spend more at my studio in a month than you charge for a year of unlimited lessons, especially considering how many sales you run. Makes me wish I had room for a home pole! You are an incredibly dedicated woman and I am so glad SV exists :)
