Twisted grip injuries!

Brumby started this discussion · 5/24/2012

Hey girls, I've been doing a ton of twisted grip, as I try to smooth the wrinkles out of my phoenix and twisted grip lift. But my elbows and shoulders are not appropriately conditioned, even though I"m strong enough. I can feel an injury coming on. I'm getting soreness in my shoulders and my elbows. And they are losing mobility and popping and cracking when I am using them! What conditioning excersises do you recommend? I know I should just rest it, but all the moves I'm working on right now are pretty intense in this respect. Doing the aerial press, aerial reverse grab, TG lift, iron X, iguana. It's so frustrating to be limited in this way.

23 replies

Danielle Tillie · 5/24/2012
How often are you practicing these? Are you giving your body enough rest in between? I would recommend at least a day, preferably two. Also, don't do too many of them in one practice, and I wouldn't try practicing all those tricks all in one practice either. Take your time and don't overdo it.
amy · 5/24/2012
i think it's pretty frustrating to have a move introduced and popularized that a lot of our bodies CANT and SHOULDNT do!! if you are having issues with the grip and want to continue to condition for the move, use another grip-- chinese/true/cupped, split, elbow, anything. give your joints a break!!!
Krista Bocko · 5/25/2012
don't break yourself. :(
LillyBilly · 5/25/2012
@amy, why shouldn't we do twisted grip?
chemgoddess1 · 5/25/2012
LillyBilly: https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/4d3f2621-0c74-40e8-a5f3-083c0ac37250 https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/2004 https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/2825
Krista Bocko · 5/25/2012
are you FULLY warmed up before working on it? As with many moves, it's great to condition and work it from a descent, first. Not that I do this move. 😎 But those are truths across the board of course. Take it easy, girl.
polergirl · 5/25/2012
Ha! I started the last thread chemgoddess linked to in her post. Update: I decided not to go on with TG because of the risk of injuring myself. It seems like I hear about more injuries caused by TG than by any other move other than falling.
chemgoddess1 · 5/25/2012
I would say that the most "injurous" moves: Split grip - wrist/forearm - typically introduced too early and too much weight being placed on lower arm Inverts - back/rotor - again, too early and not enough control of the move TG handspring/lift - shoulder/arm - anatomical issues....just because we *can* get our arm twisted that way does not mean that it *should* Allegra - ribs - flexibility issues
muroo · 5/25/2012
speaking of the split grip...when does the bottom arm stop hurting? I don't even do full bracket grips (except the carousel spin) since I remember them hurting a ton but just doing advanced planks and side Vs cause an ache right after disengaging. And it's hard to know when to stop doing them since they only hurt afterwards. :-)
amy · 5/25/2012
if your bottom arm is hurting after a pank I'd be careful that you aren't hyperextending or rotating your elbow out as you hold the position. in a regular split grip the bottom arm should be doing minimal work as the engagement of the top arm/shoulder/back should be holding your body up and away from the pole.
LillyBilly · 5/25/2012
I looked at the threads @chemgoddess1 linked to, but I still have questions - I'm not sure which moves the threads covered. I use twisted grip for shoulder mounts, butterfly/extended and the move Felix does here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmdA9bLabN0 at 2:58, but without spin and without going up - just the hold for now so that I get used to the position (what it's called?). I work several minutes every practice trying to hold it as much as I can on each side. I plan on getting my elbow grip ayesha from the pole, then twisted grip ayesha from the pole, then going up from this position into twisted grip ayesha like felix does. Are these dangerous things to do with twisted grip?
muroo · 5/25/2012
ohhh hyperextending. I don't know how that didn't occur to me. loose joints run in the family. I'll pay attention to that, thanks amy!
amy · 5/25/2012
anytime muroo! lillybilly, without knowing your body, or where you are flexible/strong-- generally doing the TG as an aerial transition out of an invert (into a butterfly, or ayesha) is not as hard on the joints as doing it from the ground as a mount. I'd be very, very careful about holding the TG stall from the ground as you point out in the video at 2:58 and i would recommend working the TG ayesha from an inside leg hang or layout/CAR before doing that TG stall from teh ground. however, you will have ot keep close tabs on how your body reacts to the work and how your joints in particular take to holding TG. if you have an instructor who is knowledgeable they should be able to correct your engagement and make sure that you're correctly using the msucles of the shoulder girdle and back to hold your weight in the position and not just hanging off the top arm. TG is particularly dangerous, IMO, bc many studios teach the handspring FROM THE GROUND, with a KICK, before even teaching it as an aerial ayesha which makes just absolutely no sense. beyond that, i know very few people who have done extended work on reverse grabs, phoenixes, or TG lifts without having some rotator cuff/wrist issues at some point; very few bodies can handle it even if they are strong and we only have one body-- it's simply not worth it to me. you are just not meant to bear weight on joints out of neutral the way that TG forces you to. and in my personal opinion, TG work is not nearly as impressive as true/chinese/cupped grip or even split grip in the same positions. i wrote a mini-rant on it here, that might make my particular concerns clearer: http://aerialamy.com/blog/2011/11/01/tuesday-tips-twisted-grip-handspring-from-the-ground/
LillyBilly · 5/25/2012
I've read your post, it made things clearer, thanks! I don't think twisted grip is more impressive than other grips - they all look the same to me as long as the overall arm position is similar 😀 I just feel that it is a much more comfortable and safe grip than any other grip I tried. With this TG stall (?), for example, I can't hold it with split grip because my body keeps rotating sideways and hurting my bottom hand. TG somehow makes more sense because I can use my back muscles to stay in position. I did have some wrist problems, but with my lower hand and they were unrelated to twisted grip - I used to have really weak wrists and experiences random pains before I started poling, but I found that if I practice just holding myself with split grip in the air, after a while my wrists get stronger and don't hurt anymore. I don't know if it makes sense 😕 That said, I will keep in mind what you wrote about shoulder engagement. We use twisted grip a lot in the studio, now that I think about it (there are some wonderful spins with TG!), and while it never gave any of us any trouble, I don't want to hurt myself. By the way, is it even possible to do reverse grabs to phoenix with oher grips?
glitterhips · 5/25/2012
I flat out refuse to even attempt this move, it's not necessary and not even that nice looking, and I find a regular handspring where you go from upright to upside down much more impressive. And the big swinging kick to get into it some people do can't be good for you either....😕
amy · 5/26/2012
You can do a spin into a True grip handspring but you can't do a reverse grab into a Phoenix with any other grip but TG. Nadia Sharif does a spin into true grip at about 2:30 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASGaYqSB1-0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
amy · 5/26/2012
Holding a stall with any other grip requires more strength, which is probably why you're not able to stay stable in them! Think about how many iron Xes you see being done with true grip or split grip-- very few, and the polers that are able to do them in those grips are always given props for it. I'm not trying to tell you that you will have problems later on down the line, but my shoulder didn't start giving me problems till maybe year #3 of poling. Nearly every pro I know in NYC has had rotator cuff issues. It's up to your body what will be compatible and up to you if it's worth it.
LillyBilly · 5/26/2012
Thanks Amy :)
LillyBilly · 5/26/2012
(I will limit my TG use)
Judy Jovanelly · 5/27/2012
not for nuthin - at my studio i flat out refuse to let TG be taught from the floor.... we are only just now beginning to work on it from up the pole : i have heard and seen tooooooooooo many problems with shoulders from people swinging up into that TG from the floor !!!
LizzyLiz810 · 5/28/2012
I never do twisted from the floor. I was learning it for a while, and kept aggravating my shoulder, so i stopped. A lot of the new moves people are coming up with are not attractive, they are just super hard. If you arent going to be competing in a super serious competition, its sooo not worth it. These injuries can affect you for life! 😲
PoleMoves · 9/22/2012
When I taught spotting and assisting at the Pole Expo in Vegas, I taught the kick up to a twisted grip ( it could have been any grip because the spotting was the same) but my demo person just chose the twisted grip. Veena's booth was right in front of the stage, I wonder if she cursed me when I taught it. Anyhow, usually people get excited with this and other moves and they do way too many of them. Advanced moves require alot of strength and you should follow the same protocols for "low rep exercises" as seen on www.poleathlete.com. I recommend people only try a move at the most 3 times each side and then do a different move. The fourth time is too much sometimes. Also, the elbow is in a precarious position when a person kicks up into a twisted grip...once a person is inverted in twisted grip, there is less strain on the elbow and the hand no longer twists the forearm. If you have ever been in an inversion and then cartwheeled down in a twisted grip, you can feel the strain on the elbow as your feet hit the ground. People don't usually feel this strain as they are cartwheeling up since they are so focused on the move...but they feel it afterwards. I teach a variety of grips to use in a cartwheel or handspring. The elbow is actually the part of the body that is stressed the most by kicking up and the safest way to teach it for elbow safety is from being already inverted. It seems as though people get shoulder injuries doing this move when they are not strong enough to do the move, they use momentum and are not maintaining a stable shoulder girdle and torso, they already have some postural instability, or they just do the move too much.
PoleMoves · 9/22/2012
Actually, I just read Aerial Amy's blog and I guess I don't teach it from kicking...the term "controlled leg sweep" is more correct. Also, I have a different idea of cartwheel and handspring. When I teach a cartwheel...you can actually go all the way over, just like a cartwheel in gymnastics. When I teach a handspring, it is more like a back-walkover in gymnastics. I know some people call handsprings, "cartwheels."