Shoulder Mount unsafe???

Bex started this discussion · 1/6/2010

Ok, so last week I dropped in on another instructor's class (i.e. not my regular instructor... but same studio). I went to work on my SM and the instructor freaked out. Apparently the studio owner sent out a memo to all instructors telling them that students are no longer allowed to work on moves like the Shoulder Mount and a few others (Bow and Twisted Grip Handspring) because they are "unsafe". Although these moves have been taught in my advanced class (in what I consider a safe manner with instructor there to spot) and many of us have been working on them... we are now being told that we can't practice these moves in class because of the strain they put out your back and shoulder muscles. Their explaination is that these moves force your muscles and vertebrae to stretch in an un-natural way causing injury to your spine. Has anyone ever heard this? I can't help but think it is just because the studio owner can't execute these moves herself and doesn't know how to properly spot them so she decided to ban the moves. I'm sure that's not the case... I'm just confused by this new limitation on what tricks we are allowed to learn. In my opinion, I'd think the owner would want us working on these moves "in class" while we have an instructor present, rather than trying them on our own at home without anyone there to make sure we are safe and not falling on our heads.

21 replies

chemgoddess1 · 1/6/2010
🤔 🤔
luvlee · 1/6/2010
Oh my goodness. I don't know if all that is true, but I would like to know for sure because this is the move I am trying to work on right now. My husband spots. It IS very painful, but I didn't know it was unsafe!!!???? ❓ I hope there is some knid of insight to this. I don't want to hurt my back. I hurt it enough doing hair! 😂 The shoulder mount seems to hurt my thumbs and wristss worse than anything else anyway! So does anyone have any answers on the first post?
amcut · 1/6/2010
I think the fireman is unsafe if you're not strong enough to do it, or are doing it wrong. is there anything in pole dancing you can't seriously injure yourself doing?
Runemist34 · 1/6/2010
That was my thought, Amcut...is there really anything one can do in pole dancing that couldn't, potentially, end in pain? I mean, what about all those girls who use unsafe poles? Or someone who accidentally slips while doing a pose, and hitting the ground? I've even tried something perfectly natural, and kicked the pole...and I could probably have broken a toe, or even something in my foot, if I'd done it badly enough! 😳 I found that, at the studio here, the owner wasn't really into inversions (I'm not sure if she just hadn't heard of them, or if she didn't think she could do them, or whatever) so the studio wasn't into them, and we were often told that they were "bad to do" because we might fall, or the poles (which were bolted permanently into the ceiling and floor) might be unsafe for it. However, they DO practice the Helicopter, the pole climb, and jackknife. I thought it was odd. 🤔 I think that it may be partly because they don't want you hurting yourself in their classes or on their property, because people tend to sue at the drop of a hat these days. 🙄 As for it being "unsafe" for the back, and whatnot...well, you could say that about a lot of things. It all depends on your level of strength and flexibility. I was horseback riding for about four years before this, and I could go around saying "It's unsafe!" because I developed a knee problem from it, and I've been in pain for like six years, but that isn't the problem of the activity, just the way my body handled it, and a pretty harsh lack of fitness on my part during that time, and the time after that...till now! Anyways, I would love to see what Veena has to say, as well as anyone who has health and fitness experience...as, like, a career with credentials and stuff. Otherwise it's just heresay and nonsense! 🥂
untamedshrew · 1/6/2010
Living is unsafe; it will surely end in death 🤓 seriously,attempting any pole move (or anything in life) that you are not capable of - is unsafe. Lesson: know your limits, be preapared, practice makes perfect, ounce of prevention, er, pound of cure, go for it, (insert motivational phrase here). I'm having a silly day here.
Veena · 1/6/2010
Any pole move could cause injury....just like the act of walking down steps could cause a fall! Accidents happen. I have no idea why the studio is worried about teaching but its their choice not to as a studio. I feel far to many studios teach spins WAY to soon, most spins should NOT be considered beginner moves. 👎 I teach the SM from the ground (yes its is harder, because you can't use momentum) and that is why I teach from the ground, its safer if you slip, and teaches you the proper way to mount...with out excessive force. 💪 Any move and being alive 🤓 can be "unsafe" if you do not use the proper form or work with in your range of motion. Proper placement of the pole on the Trapezius, Neutral spine (no rounding upper back), Abs engaged (to protect the low back) Proper hand placement (Veena grip is one of the safest and most secure), Engaged shoulders (chest up and shoulders away from ears), no twisting or excessive kicking and I don't see why it would cause a problem. 🤔 I will have to think about this more, but I'm not sure I can see the danger for your spine in this move, maybe I teach it differently than they do IDK.
carriej · 1/6/2010
haha, that is so funny! considering I used to rock climb pretty hard and I'd do heel hooks (pretty much an inversion) like hundreds of feet in the air over my own placed gear in the side of a mountain or cliff with a guy holding the other end of my rope to prevent catastrophy, pole dancing is pretty safe in my book! We all realize that we could slip on a move and the results could suck but that's why we choose our moves carefully and only take risks we are prepared for.
SissyBuns · 1/7/2010
Those moves aren't anymore unsafe then anything else. Like Amcut said, you can hurt yourself doing a firemen. You can fall out of a handstand and give yourself a concussion! http://ver3.studioveena.com/lessons/view/1877 A studio and it's owners do havethe right to teach what they want, maybe the owner doesn't have faith in the people she has teaching those moves, IDK. I just wouldn't want to see anyone thinking that a SM in particular was more unsafe than anything else.
psychoholicslag · 1/7/2010
I'm seriously wondering if this studio thinks this move is unsafe because perhaps they do not know how to teach it correctly or maybe they have misjudged when to introduce this move and got themselves into trouble with a student who was not prepared for it. Have you tried asking the studio for a more detailed explanation as to why some moves have been banned? If the studio believes it is unsafe, they should be able to break down their explanation as well and as detailed as Veena broke down her response. The reason of "being unsafe" is very broad. Plus, a lot of the safety issues lie in proper technique and being at an appropriate skill level.
anngiern · 1/7/2010
unfortunately we live in a very "let me sue you" for every little thing type of society. it depends on how the studios's curriculum is set up. many people feel they have the strength to do these very advanced moves when they should be working on strength training to build those muscles before trying to attempt these moves. but unfortunately students at times do not listen to what instructors are telling them. i have many students who come to the studio and have been teaching themselves on youtube and they want to learn every trick in the book. i tell them you have to crawl before you walk and need to learn the basics before rushing into things and overusing muscles. but they go home anyway working on shoulder mounts when they are unable to even do a fireman. and then of course they are injured a few weeks later. i try to educate so many women that pole dancing is like any other dance form...it takes time. ballet takes a long time to master, salsa dancing, swing dancing...etc....you cant just learn it overnight. i believe that exotic/pole dancing you can master faster than other dance forms but not that fast. in the end anything can be unsafe...but you definitely can decrease the risk by putting certain things in place first. i know that we added an advanced pole conditioning and strengthening series that we recommend students take a few times before going to the advance pole tricks class. also doing cross training with aerial arts performers (circus/silks) helps instructors and owners to keep up their spotting and strengthening skills.
smokinangel · 1/7/2010
There was a link on here awhile ago to a youtube video explaining how some people were physically unable to do a sm? Something about the way the tendons and muscles were aligned. Maybe they don't want people to feel bad if they can't.... I say grab a friend, veena's lessons, and practice at home. Spotter and correct instruction, all in one go 😀
faerie9 · 1/7/2010
There was a link on here awhile ago to a youtube video explaining how some people were physically unable to do a sm? Something about the way the tendons and muscles were aligned. Maybe they don't want people to feel bad if they can't.... I say grab a friend, veena's lessons, and practice at home. Spotter and correct instruction, all in one go 😀 I think that was from Melissa at Samsara Studio, she knows a lot about the detail of anatomy etc. I think she said she can do a SM but won't because her body isn't made that way and she could damage it. Agree, saying a SM is dangerous full stop is a little silly. Of course it's risky but then most pole moves are in varying degrees. Sounds like the studio isn't happy to take the risks of someone falling or isn't confident in it themselves.
amy · 1/7/2010
There was a link on here awhile ago to a youtube video explaining how some people were physically unable to do a sm? Something about the way the tendons and muscles were aligned. Maybe they don't want people to feel bad if they can't.... I say grab a friend, veena's lessons, and practice at home. Spotter and correct instruction, all in one go 😀 I think that was from Melissa at Samsara Studio, she knows a lot about the detail of anatomy etc. I think she said she can do a SM but won't because her body isn't made that way and she could damage it. Agree, saying a SM is dangerous full stop is a little silly. Of course it's risky but then most pole moves are in varying degrees. Sounds like the studio isn't happy to take the risks of someone falling or isn't confident in it themselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JktVYzHbJ8U 😉
Veena · 1/7/2010
Thanks for the vid......The grips she was demonstrating were some of the harder ones on your body, I don't use any of them.....also if you have the limited ROM you shouldn't be using a forearm grip. But the studio was talking about Vertebra damage not arm. 🤔 Pole dance as a whole is really hard on the forearms, just like dancing can be really harsh on ones feet. I think the important part for instructors, is to remind students to work within the range of motion they have, everyone is different!!!! 🌸
Bex · 1/7/2010
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I was starting to think I was crazy for not seeing the SM as any more dangerous than any other pole move i.e. fireman... and I trip even when walking on flat surfaces. 😂 I think what it comes down to is what several of you touched on.... Although my regular instructor has been properly teaching us and spotting these moves, the studio owner isn't the one who taught her and she just doesn't know how to teach all of the other instructors how to spot for these. I'm not sure that's a viable reason to ban us from trying advanced moves we see on YouTube or learn from here on SV, but it certainly is their discression as to what is taught in the studio. Another excuse I failed to mention was that they don't want lower level students to see us doing advanced moves and then trying to copy us. So that goes back to physical conditioning and making sure individuals are ready for the tricks we are attempting. I suppose that would be hard to moderate when you don't know the level of every single person in the class. It's almost like the instructors have to become personal trainers when it gets to the point of teaching advanced tricks and spins to make sure they personally know the capabilities of each student.
MissJulie · 1/8/2010
I don't do hack squats or standing calf raises at the gym because I believe these compress my spine and I already have scoliosis. However, I've never felt any pressure or pain doing the shoulder mount. The pole rests pretty comfortably on my trap and I've never been bruised from it. There's occasional soreness, but this is usually in my back, serratus, and obliques which seems like very normal workout related soreness. What i CAN see is the 'unsafeness'? of the shoulder mount grip which is traditionally a cup grip and doesn't have the stability of a full grip, however there are alternative grips. Out of all my students however.... I have yet to have a student who I feel is advanced enough to teach the shoulder mount to, I have to say. Sometimes a girl will come in for a workshop with a more advanced teacher who can SM, but usually these are teachers from other cities who have moved to Austin. I think people need to be taught how to fall properly too. It's not enough to know they can do the move. I'm at the point where I'm just used to falling and lately practice falling out of extended butterfly... I land like a cat and somehow flip over to land on my butt every time, I just don't want to do a move like that on a hardwood floor until I can gracefully cartwheel out of it
joni1 · 1/13/2010
I guess I'm lucky, we have a great instructor /owner 👸 of our fitness studio who lets us come in and show and try any advance moves we saw on you tube or dvds. 😛 We are at the master pro level class and we each bought our own crash mats. When ever we have a new advance acrobatic type of move, we explain to her what we are about to do and she spots us with our mats. She never limit our learning but guides us. 👍 We all progressed very well as a result. We are thought to tuck our head towards our chest when we are falling and grab the pole as fast as we can. We practice moves like superman fall from the top of the pole, SM Flip, chartwheel mounts spinning scorpio , etc..
Bex · 1/13/2010
I guess I'm lucky, we have a great instructor /owner 👸 of our fitness studio who lets us come in and show and try any advance moves we saw on you tube or dvds. 😛 We are at the master pro level class and we each bought our own crash mats. When ever we have a new advance acrobatic type of move, we explain to her what we are about to do and she spots us with our mats. She never limit our learning but guides us. 👍 We all progressed very well as a result. We are thought to tuck our head towards our chest when we are falling and grab the pole as fast as we can. We practice moves like superman fall from the top of the pole, SM Flip, chartwheel mounts spinning scorpio , etc.. We "used to" be like this. Every week we were coming into class with new tricks we saw online here at SV or Youtube and we'd all work together to figure out how to safely spot and execute the trick. We'd (sometimes literally) mold our instructor into position and then she'd come back the next week and teach us what we were try to do. Now we have to wait until the owner of the studio has approved the trick and be officially be taught by instructors rather than suggesting new moves.
moonflower · 1/15/2010
Terp, I second what was already said about the studio labelling them unsafe because THEY don't know how to teach it probably and is worried about lawsuits and what not. And I think it makes matter worse because the students will still try them, except instead of trying them at the studio with a spotter, they will try them alone at home. At the studio I use to belong to, one instructor was great and would help use with moves we saw online. If she was unfamiliar with it, she practiced until she was and we will all improve on it together. On ther hadn there was an instructor that was very strict about what was allowed to be done in her class. There was a list she taught and she will tell you it is wrong if you did a variation taught by another instructor. She also didn't expand upon her list with new moves. Instead of adding the moves to her lessons, she will just claim they were " too advanced" and therefore won't be taught. As a result a scorpio(they called it something else at the studio) was taught but a gemini was "too advanced"...funny because I learned the gemini first. I think it happend becuase "sensual fitness" exploded like a fad and business minded people are rushing to make a buck off or two off of it. As a result, many studios were opened by owners who dont; knwo much about the sport. Also, some of these studios only require girls to take a course (costly ofcourse) to be an instructor. Some of these instructors can only do what they teach. This is one of the reasons I left the studio. There was only 2 instructors there who truly know what they were doing.
Former member · 1/17/2010
edit! i quoted wrong lol
Former member · 1/17/2010
Any pole move could cause injury....just the act of walking down steps could cause a fall! ahh. so true. i tripped UP the stairs tonight with the grace and elegance of an elephant just a few minutes ago. living IS dangerous!!!! lol