Rhythmic Gymnastics on a pole?

adAstra started this discussion · 7/28/2013

I think Olga was impressive, athletic, and amazingly talented. BUT. I think she stripped the soul out of pole and turned it into rhythmic gymnastics. I'm sure she didn't come up with this routine so really it wasn't her and you can see that. She lacks emotion and expression. Again, she was phenomenal for what she was doing and I could not do one second of her performance. Here's the video: http://youtu.be/-FN0-WghkJw Cali shared the video of Aimee from the UK who came in third with me. I was so sad to watch her video because you could see she loved dancing and it was like she was telling a story. We discussed that it would be horrible to see her change her style since the second place winner also had Olga's very trained and unfortunately very restricted style. Here's her video: http://youtu.be/pjBSWRdl9m8 I've mentioned this before but this type of change happened in figure skating when they adopted the new scoring system. They wanted to measure all the technical features but how do you measure expression? Grace? Emotion? A few ladies on here got down about how crazy good Olga is and knowing our bodies just won't do that for us at this point. She was excellent in some ways but I think there is really more to pole than this.

14 replies

CapFeb · 7/28/2013
I think this video was over hyped for what it was, honestly. She did a lot of amazing moves, moves we all know are very difficult. But she's young. She SHOULD have that amount of flexibility at that age. And if you compare her body type to say, Marlo or Oona you'll notice the lack of serious muscles and abs. She isn't fully developed or all that heavy for her size. I agree with the idea that the industry is moving more towards vertical rhythmic gymnastics and away from dance. I prefer Marlo and Nadia over Oona and Olga for one reason; you can tell it's not just a routine for them. Even if that is no longer the way pole wants to go, at least we will have events like Pole Art to show case that.
CapFeb · 7/28/2013
I think this video was over hyped for what it was, honestly. She did a lot of amazing moves, moves we all know are very difficult. But she's young. She SHOULD have that amount of flexibility at that age. And if you compare her body type to say, Marlo or Oona you'll notice the lack of serious muscles and abs. She isn't fully developed or all that heavy for her size. I agree with the idea that the industry is moving more towards vertical rhythmic gymnastics and away from dance. I prefer Marlo and Nadia over Oona and Olga for one reason; you can tell it's not just a routine for them. Even if that is no longer the way pole wants to go, at least we will have events like Pole Art to show case that.
Kira · 7/29/2013
It was clear from the get go that the focus of the International Pole Sports Federation worlds competition was purely pole sports/fitness rather than on the more showy side. I think the fact that there was a children's category would mean that it would be gymnastics only as they wouldn't want any more controversy. If you consider the rules for the adult competitors included things like costumes had to cover the gluteal crease and there are 10 compulsory moves etc. I can imagine the rules for childrens would be even more strict. Under these restrictions and rules I think Olga was the outright winner of her category - she did the moves, she hit every move on cue and was flawless on technique. Sure, it is not the style of pole that I find moving but she met every criteria of that particular competition. Whilst Aimee's routine is just as spectacular, I didn't find it any more or less emotional than Olga's - to me it's just children doing different combos in vertical gymnastics much like 'normal' gymnastics you see on tv. Both would have had a teacher advising and coaching them, I don't think that any of their training would've been too different. 'There is more to pole than this' is true - depending on your views of pole. To some, this competition is the be all or end all - they see pole as pure gymnastics and technique, that emotion would develop from doing the tricks. My personal opinion is the same as yours - that emotion comes first, the tricks and technique develop from the emotion. I also find emotion and expression comes with age & experience and haven't seen any children's routine as yet that have made me tear up and think more than 'wow, she's really flexible/strong'. These style competitions are here and we as a community should acknowledge that not everyone sees it as a dance movement but more of a sport movement. There are plenty of other competitions such as Pole Art, Miss Pole Dance etc. that celebrate showmanship, props/lights etc. as well as the tricks. And after that heavy reply I just want to say f&*k me, I wish I had the stamina of those kids - I get tired after a climb and invert!
darcit · 7/29/2013
Something that I try to remember when I'm watching videos of these amazing kids do pole routines I couldn't even imagine doing, but that have very little true emotion in them is that, well, they're kids. Being able to put emotion into a dance comes from having experienced that emotion. From having lived with pain, fear, hurt, anger, joy and love. At nine or ten years old most kids haven't had the life experiences (or been able to cognatively process them) in a way that lets them truly express emotions through dance.
luvlee · 7/29/2013
Exactly. They are children. I would not expect to see raw emotion or sexy. That would be rather odd. In a competition like this, sport, fitness, and flexibility are key. What is wrong with that? Just because some may be ran this way does not mean that sexy will disappear!
calipolepixie · 7/29/2013
Ok ladies, she's not saying the kids need to be sexy, so I dont know where that came from. What I feel is technical is fine but the emotion & passion & joy they feel about poling that shows through in their performance is what we are talking about here that feels like its missing. And oh yes kids can to express emotion effectively & with power even those they havent experienced that emotion yet...kids that act get coached on emotions & are able to convey them on screen believably & ever seen dance moms? they are often coached on emotions that needs to come through in their dance & do it with flying colors. I don't think you need to have experienced that emotion first hand to convey it. Maddie on dance moms is an example of a child who is a technical dancer but conveys emotion beautifully and you are drawn into her performance because she expresses emotion throughout her entire performance. In addition, when you watch Maddie dance, you can tell she genuinely loves to dance, it comes through in her performance every time. Even a smile throughout a performance lightens up the feel of a performance. Olga hardly smiled but when she did it looked like it pained her to do so. It was as though she was trained to be perfect technically & nothing else. Aimee smiled throughout her whole routine and it made you smile. Her little energetic hops, skips & maneuvers also were part of her routines "story". Aimee's routine was pretty technical too but at the same time it still was a fitting routine for a child though. Olga was dressed like & pole danced like a 30 year old pole pro, which awed me but also bothered me...I anxiously watched her routine hoping to see some light moments or emotion in her routine at some point that showed us glimpses of her youth, personality & joy in poling. That's what we are talking about. It's fine to be as rigorously technical like Olga was but what I mentioned above is the "more" that I think needs to come through in a performance too.
luvlee · 7/29/2013
I wish the second link worked. I have not seen that video.
chemgoddess1 · 7/29/2013
Luvlee, try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjBSWRdl9m8
MrsNaughtywed · 7/29/2013
I thought Olga was amazing! I love how with pole dancing, anyone from all walks of life and any style of dance can combine it with pole! I loved Olga's style!
adAstra · 7/30/2013
Olga was amazing, as I said. And goodness, no, I wasn't suggesting a ten year old should be representing pole by dancing sexy. I actually think kids can do a lot more than we're giving them credit for. For example Veena has the most adorable video of her kids dancing and doing some pole tricks that makes me smile every time. You get a sense of warmth by watching their enjoyment, which is how I felt about Aimee's performance. I do love all forms of pole, including sporty, which can have a lot of expression without being more of the "Pole Art" style (as Oona proves in her sportier performances). Actually the reason I have come to love all these styles is from watching the videos everyone uploads here on StudioVeena. To me the issue is not whether these girls are talented or skilled--they certainly both are! It's that dance/athletics like pole and figure skating are becoming so focused on quantitative scoring systems that it leaves little room for expression. That's just my opinion, which is apt to change like anyone's, and I certainly don't expect everyone to agree (how boring would that be!). Clearly the judges don't, lol.
bugsy monroe · 7/30/2013
I think most points I'd make have been covered already, but if there's one thing that's worth re-iterating, it's that there's space for every conceivable form of pole dance, and developments in this, and any other direction, will only grow our art, not limit it. The 'World Pole Sports' organisation very purposefully set out to craft a quantitative judging system, with an eye to pole being recognised as a potential Olympic discipline. This performance (and those of all the other "novice" competitors), was the first that I have seen in which that possibility rang clear. For me too, this heavlily moderated form of competition is not to my personal taste, and certainly style would become homogenised if this form progressed to its logical conclusion, but to undermine the achievement of Olga (and her trainers), seems somewhat bitter! Olga was like a coiled spring that day - she couldn't wait to get onto the stage, she sailed through her show and danced her way off again, absolutely thriving on the experience. Her performance was an astonishing technical showcase, not geared up to induce emotion, evident in the flat and repetitive music used. Which is not to say that it was not creative - it held many unique moves and transitions. For the average adult pole dancer to compare themselves to Olga is like a hula hooper comparing themselves to a rhythmic gymnast! The fact is, both can amaze and enchant and are equally valuable.
calipolepixie · 7/30/2013
I think folks are really misinterpreting what I am saying here. So let me clarify. I'll say again that I thought Olga was great (let's get real, 85% of the tricks she did, I probably will never be able to do for cripes sakes!) but the extreme technical aspects of her routine & how grown up she looked and acted performing her routine disturbed me...I just wanted to see some childhood energy & spirit in her routine is all, her routine felt & looked too grown up. I feel the same about pageants, some dance competitions & about gymnastics, sometimes, it just feels like too much technical & perfection required, that other important elements seem to get lost in translation. That is the only point I was trying to make. I wasn't trying to pick on Olga & not saying she shouldn't have won or anything like that because her winning was well deserved & just. My comparison between her & Aimee was just to exemplify my feelings/opinion of when too much technical & perfection is required/expected, that other important elements get lost in translation. That's it. I too love that pole has many levels...some people love the fitness & super technical style poling, some prefer the super sexy style poling. And I love that we have competitions out there that cater to the different styles of pole. But I can't help but wonder if trying to mainstream pole by repackaging it as a technically heavy sport, may end up hurting us more than help us.
calipolepixie · 7/30/2013
Michelle Shimmy also questions some elements of competitions in her recent blog & makes some very interesting points http://shimmypolediary.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-proliferation-professionalisation.html?m=1
shimmypolediary.blogspot.comThe Proliferation, Professionalisation and Sanitisation of Pole Competitions: Part 1 The Cleaning Up of Pole CompetitionsA blog about pole dancing and life as a professional pole dancer. Shimmy is the co-owner of Pole Dance Academy, Sydney, Australia.
Athena30 · 8/2/2013
Sasja Lee also made an interesting comment about the direction that competitions are taking: Furthermore, besides politics, I believe competitions have taken on a different focus recently. I often ask, if one isn't a trained gymnast, ballerina, or contortionist, where do you fit into a competition nowadays?