Progressions

yogabeachbabe started this discussion · 11/9/2010

I have been noticing a disturbing trend in classes these days and am wondering whether it's just me being picky about stuff. I am currently watching all the girls practice their handsprings (both regular and twisted grip). Part of me is jealous because I won't allow myself to even attempt it yet because I simply do not feel strong enough to be able to hold myself there properly versus "holy crap I don't know how I got my hips in place but I did it!" I know for a fact that many of these very brave girls don't have solid handstands down, nor can they caterpillar up the pole, nor can they ayesha. I mean, I'm all for trying new moves and the instructor is great, but it fills me with anxiety. Should I be trying handsprings, too? I mean, I'm wondering if it's a matter of my own fear that's keeping me far away from this move.

14 replies

Veena · 11/9/2010
No I feel the same way you do..... I'm a firm believer in.... just because if feels more secure or seems easier doesn't mean that move is safe to be working on before you have the strength for it. Many girls like the TG because they can balance longer and easier in it then in a true grip or a Split grip. It "feels better" I have the same grip with students working on spins too soon, yes they are simple to learn but spins first....its not a progression that I feel is best. The Twisted grip position is one I have been watching very closely and I have played around with it off and on for over a year. I firmly believe that you should not be working on the Twisted grip anything (handspring, lift, even using it as a position off the pole) until you have build up the strength and flexibility that is needed for this position. I will be adding the TG to the lessons but I have not rushed into it because I want to be sure I am happy with the progression I have decided on for teaching this move. I feel, that to build the strength needed to work on any of the TG moves you must add strength specific training to your pole routine. Adding shoulder/scapula, lat, chest, exercised to help you progress safely. The TG as a position off of the pole is the first work that should be done, the iron X is next, and the lift or Handspring should be LAST!! As the nature of lift and handspring...well....they put the most stress on the body. Never train your Split grips or Twisted grips too often, when starting 2x's a week 3 is MAX and not for a whole pole session either. A few times every few days is the safest way to go......
Charley · 11/9/2010
I concur with Veena 100%. To many people are hip hoppity to try bigger moves than they are ready for because they look cool. Pole dancing is a journey. I would say that really strong elbow/forearm caterpillars, ayshas, straight edge's and brass monkey transitions before working on split grips. The TG really requires a lot of shoulder flexibility and I have noticed a lot of people who do not stretch their shoulders have a very difficult time just getting into the position much less being able to get upside down. I would work with traditional grips first, as Pantera pointed out to me, TG is easier because it's using your pectoral muscles which is a larger msucle group than your biceps. Working on traditional grips will increase your strength not just in your shoulders and arms but also in your core as you have to work harder to stabilize the moves.
lazydaizy · 11/9/2010
Agreed! I often have girls asking me to teach them really advanced moves that require lots of strength and control and sometimes I don't even know how to nicely explain that they're just not ready! Although I wouldn't say that being able to do a hand stand is a prereq for a handspring. Also, sometimes there is no clear progression to build up for a trick. I honestly don't know that I was strong enough to hold a handspring when I first started trying it, but as I found my balance, I could hold it for longer an longer, and I feel like this was what helped me build up the strength. Similarly, I was able to do aysha and handspring before I could do a simple caterpillar climb comfortably! I think it was just me unable to find my balance. Anyway, don't watch other people - take things at your own pace.
yogabeachbabe · 11/9/2010
Thanks ladies. All your replies have given me a lot to think about. I do want to work my way towards handsprings so what do you all think is a good progression? Lazydaizy (such a cute name!) mentioned that she didn't see handstands as part of the progression, so what is? I'm way too old to NOT work consciously in my body and I really want to learn it correctly.
amy · 11/9/2010
for the regular handspring, i would work on maintaining balance in a strong elbow grip or split grip aysha.... holding the inverted V position, and moving legs around (like into a pencil) and back again. for TG handspring, i would recommend being able to lift into a shoulder mount, and caterpillar climb, and working it from an inside leg hang or from very very low on the ground and NEVER kicking into it.
lazydaizy · 11/9/2010
here is my rant: I don't think that you should do TG anything until you can do it in true grip. Because true grip is harder strength-wise, you will know when you're truly strong enough. TG allows you to hang there and get into the bad habit of not engaging your muscles (particularly your lats). It's also terrible for your shoulder and wrist. With that said, handspring is definitely a trick that requires lots of repetitive practice because you need to learn to bring your body into the right place and find your balance. I learned it from the floor with a kick, and it took me quite some time to not be too scared to let my body invert all the way as I brought my legs up. It helps to have someone hold you in the right position to get a feel for it. If you do want to learn TG, I think that it's easiest (and safest) to do from a basic invert. Place your hands in the right place and begin to slowly release your legs. handspring is an advanced trick and I think that before you learn any advanced tricks, you should have mastered the basics. So be able to do a controlled lift into a basic invert (no kicking, jumping, etc.), be able to shoulder mount also with no kick, and be able to climb without struggle. After that I would work on elbow or forearm grip aysha and once that's comfortable, start working on handsprings. Everyone's 'progression' is different though, and I wouldn't be surprised if you can do the HS before the aysha. However, the first few things I listed are definitely important pointers of whether or not you're strong enough.
chemgoddess1 · 11/9/2010
I have been poling for 3 years almost and still do not handspring. If I were taking classes it might be one thing but I just do not trust my strength enough to even attempt it. I would love to be able to do it but I also know that when I do feel comfortable enough it will happen. Pantera helped me a lot with set up and progressions of the movement so it is now just going to take time and practice....2 things I don't seem to have enough of!!!
megs982 · 11/9/2010
I want to pipe in here lol. I don't recommend doing any sort of TG..Why you might ask. You see i can do everything on here comfortably that you guys should be able to do before the TG. I tried the TG once..just ONCE, no jumping ect. Well i've been out of poling for now three weeks. It wasn't my shoulder, nor my wrist that I hurt. It was my elbow. I at this point can't really do any simple spins w/o my elbow giving me pain.. Please i can not over emphasize this enough. Don't rush into this move, or you will be sorry (like i REALLY am i miss my pole!)
RoxyPink · 11/10/2010
I totally agree... I filled in on a class a couple weeks ago and these girls were trying to "levitate"....meaning they were doing the tg stall. these girls couldn't even gemini, scorpio, sm etc...but yet they were being taught a tg move??? I was like wtf?? Scary if you ask me...someone is bound to get seriously hurt!
yogabeachbabe · 11/10/2010
I want to pipe in here lol. I don't recommend doing any sort of TG..Why you might ask. You see i can do everything on here comfortably that you guys should be able to do before the TG. I tried the TG once..just ONCE, no jumping ect. Well i've been out of poling for now three weeks. It wasn't my shoulder, nor my wrist that I hurt. It was my elbow. I at this point can't really do any simple spins w/o my elbow giving me pain.. Please i can not over emphasize this enough. Don't rush into this move, or you will be sorry (like i REALLY am i miss my pole!) Oh Megs, I'm so sorry! Yeah, all these girls are skipping regular grip and going right into twisted grip handsprings in class. I honestly cringe. It's just like what Roxy said: some aren't even cleanly inverting, let alone doing leg hangs and such. Trust me--I don't see myself doing TG in any way, shape or form for a long, long, long time to come!
Veena · 11/10/2010
I think we need to all remember (this goes for Studios and Students) that there are Pole moves that are NOT suitable for every dancer. And that's OK!!!! Not everyone should feel they have to learn every move. For some that might mean Split grips are not an option others, no inverts or no Twisted grips. I am strong and fit and I only work on Split grips and Twisted grips sparingly. I like my forearms and shoulders. LOL 🤓
TrixieLovett · 11/10/2010
I agree with Megs comment. I think that in years to come the gals who were impatient with TG will see the ramifications later in life. Sometimes problems that manifest themselves in the elbow and shoulder come from issues that were wrist in origin. I'm no psychic, but I have been poling long enough to know that we don't know the long term effects of improper technique with TG moves.
Svarri · 11/11/2010
TG moves are really quite taxing! I injured my elbow over practicing a regular split-grip combo this time last year. It 'migrated' to my wrist and took over 10 months to heal. Split grip used to be my strong point. Now I do them sparingly. I completely stopped doing the TG. What scares me is that, at the studio I practice at people launch themselves into handsprings of all types with NO warmup. Sadly, they're just following the example of the teacher.
moonflower · 11/12/2010
The studio I use to belong to taught ONLY split grip everything. No forearm or elbow to ease into it and practice balancing. I had so much elbow and forearm pain while I was there. I ended up learning my forearm and elbow grip after my split grip after finding studio veena. Practicing my straight edge and aysha with my elbow grip feels so much better for my body. I slowly relearned the split and TG and this time, no more pains! Unfortunately my ulnar nerve is already damaged from sliding down on my lower arm in the split grip, sometimes, my pinky and ring fingers still go numb. I wish I found SV and learned abotu proper progression first.