Positive Vs. Negative Encouragement

Serzi started this discussion · 5/16/2013

Had an interesting discussion w/ a friend I now believe may be a sado-masochist. Why? Well, she prefers insults and severe criticism to fuel her pole journey rather than compliments or supportiveness. Umm, I'm not going to comment much on my personal opinion of this for once but you can bet I don't much care for the idea. I get that some people feel it pushes them more than everlasting kindness but, idk, I used to have an eating disorder and negative reinforcement was a huge part of my routine. Found it rather damaging to the psyche. Anyway, what are your opinions on this? :)

13 replies

chemgoddess1 · 5/16/2013
I personally cannot stand when somebody oohhs and ahhhs at everything I do. To me it is ego feeding and I cannot take it seriously. If I ask for your opinion I want honesty and if you ask for mine you had better be ready to get it in return. I am not going to attack and make you cry in the corner but if you honestly want my opinion then I will honestly give it. For those who do not know me personally I come off as a royal wench a LOT, but if you have ever had the chance to meet me you know and understand who I am , almost to a fault.
aliceBheartless · 5/16/2013
For me, I like to be complimented if something I do truly is awesome. I don't like to be fawned over, I don't like to be told something is good when it isn't, and I don't appreciate when I feel like people are only saying something to cheer me up instead of their comments reflecting reality. I can't take it seriously if I don't feel the compliment is genuine or I haven't deserved it. That said, based on some recent dance class experience, I would say that working hard to gain the approval of a difficult, nit-picking teacher is a huge rush for me. I want to know I earned it, and once I have, I know that its just one step of many ahead. It doesn't end there. I am not perfect, but I am working for it. One thing I have noticed... people with classical dance training seem to be some of the most honest and brutally straightforward teachers. But I know a lot of people who don't want that honesty, who feel it's too negative, and take it personally when the teacher never meant it personally. I think it's seen as negative criticism, when it's not meant that way. It's not a take down, but an honest reaction from a teacher about what a dancer is doing, relative to what they should be doing in a technical sense. It's not personal if you didn't point your toe that time, it's technical. But I know the delivery method sometimes can feel harsh if a person is not used to it. I think we all dance for different reasons, and often those reason dictate our preferred approach.
Runemist34 · 5/17/2013
*Shrug* Honestly, I think everyone thrives in different environments. I prefer positive reinforcement and carefully thought out (and carefully given) criticism, because I have an unfortunate self-esteem and anxiety issue. I'm working on this. However, for another person, they might interpret the applause as false, or they may not need it- if they know they're doing well and can admit that to themselves, I think that they no longer need it from other people that much. Strong criticism may also be more helpful to them, and if they're really trying to push themselves, they may interpret that as a kind of encouragement from another person. Sadism (the "sado" part of sado-masochism), for the record, means deriving pleasure from inflicting pain on other people. Masochism means that you enjoy the pain inflicted from ther people. Usually it refers to physical pain, but it can sometimes be emotional or social. Some people's pain is also their pleasure ;)
Paunobs · 5/17/2013
After competing in amateur pole last year I was excited to speak to one of the judges expecting to get a critique of my performance, I wanted to hear what I needed to do better and what I did not execute correctly for me to place 7th , all I got was how fantastic she thought my performance was , I was disappointed because I wanted genuine critique and that is what we were told the judges would give us! I think we need honest good mannered critique to improve ..However I dislike the constant Point your goddamn feet comments I see frequently in many YouTube videos .:-)
portableninja · 5/17/2013
I think this applies to life as well as pole. It's good to have a mixture of people around you. Those who will cheer for you and tell you that you're amazing and awesome and special no matter what. And those who will be brutally honest with you and tell you no, that sucked and here's what you can do to change that.
Serzi · 5/17/2013
Yes, she is most definitely a sado-masochist in every sense of the word when it comes to pole. lol Whatever trips your trigger, I ain't one to judge. ;)
PrincessPeach · 5/18/2013
I think you have to adapt your approach depending on the person. I'm personally a big fan of receiving "Great momentum but point those damn toes" or "You looked hot but that's not what I'd call a brass monkey/butterfly". You have to remember not everybody has the same goals. If you're getting rough and critical over poise and its low on the persons agenda they might feel you're nit picking rather than being helpful. I think those looking for feedback need to give an indication of what kind/area they're looking for it on. It's very hard to get it right and even the gobbiest of people might tone it down rather than risking hurting somebody's feelings.
poledanceromance · 5/19/2013
My thoughts are similar. I believe positive feedback and guidance are both important, and kind delivery comes from knowing and recognizing the stages of learning. If we were just working on a skill and you got the technique, I stop and acknowledge what you did well at that stage before moving into the next stage of learning where we're doing aesthetic corrections. I think it's important to try to thoughtfully articulate what was done properly, not to inflate the ego but because I find students are guaranteed to learn pole skills faster if they can recognize and focus on what "felt right" rather than focusing on (and potentially even developing muscle memory for) something incorrect. But always recognize what was done correct first, to get the student to recognize what the correct execution feels like so they can duplicate it. Now, what TONE that positive reinforcement has depends on each student. Some benefit from a more gentle and praising tone because they're just there to feel good and have a good time. Some students are really working hard to crack a skill and do well with a very matter-of-fact breakdown of their attempts. Sometimes a student does well with either or both, depending on what they're working on (flows vs. skills, what focus a class/teacher has could influence this I think). This is just what I've observed as a teacher and as a student over the years, my two cents!
Reyn · 5/31/2013
I love encouragement and praise but I am also the type of person that wants people to nit-pick!!! I always have been that way, and it's also how I find myself teaching as well. I offer lots of encouragement, praise when I see progress, and quick points on what I saw that needed work to make it better.
Runemist34 · 6/1/2013
I had a thought on the topic of criticism: There's something I've learned in school called the "Praise sandwich," which apparently editors use in order not to freak the writers out when they send back the massive, month-consuming edits that need doing. Basically, it's put together thus: Something good, followed by something that one could "work on," and then ending on something else that's good. The best are able to talk about specifics in the "good" parts. In a dancing context, it could be something like "I really loved your off-hand movement, how you used it particularly at this point in the dance to express this." That way, you get the best of both worlds! You can alternate between good things and bad things (always beginning and ending the criticism with good things, though), and really get through a lot of points. Anyone who likes positive, praise-based feedback will feel happy and like they have things to work on in a GOOD way, and those who like the nit-pick train can really get in there and have their feedback, too. :)
Cherished · 6/1/2013
You know, my friend does that whole praise sandwich thing and it makes me crazy!! lolI had to tell her to stop because then anything good she said didn't come off as genuine since I knew the axe would be falling shortly after. I like when someone is blunt with me and gets straight to the point. I don't want insults though, just the truth. I don't take criticism as negative. For myself negative is more along the lines of someone thinking I should quit a move. I never danced in front of my friends for about a year in so they were used to seeing me demo moves I knew how to do. Now, sometimes when I show them something I'm working on it looks so crappy one of them might tell me to focus on the ones I'm good at instead since they don't know the process it takes for me to master something. I'd even rather be insulted on my crappiness than hear I should give up. If I took stuff like that to heart my poling would've been over at the fireman stage.
Dancing Paws · 6/1/2013
IMO, if someone needs negative reinforcement to progress, I would not encourage that type of mental self abuse, personally. It only stands to make their self esteem worse instead of better. It's about changing their thought patterns to be positive ones. Negative reinforcement is different them constructive criticism though. Students should be complimented on what they are doing correctly, then address any incorrect things they are doing, and give them a praise when they correct it.
Charley · 6/2/2013
I'm going though this student phase in my journey - I like honest critique, do help me make things better, but don't leave me feeling as if I have no business pole dancing...which is kind of how I feel currently, give me the tools and information to help me improve but please tell me I should keep going. Small things are still things.