Pole dancing in the Olympics
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Charley ·
While getting pole dancing into the Olympics is not on my agenda of things to do - We have to consider that it's not going to change anything. Do you really think strippers are going to stop stripping against a pole because of the Olympics? This is for those for sexy dancing and against it. For those of us on the sexy side - we are still going to grind and roll on the pole until we make watchers blush. For those against sexy dancing - well some of our champions have been strippers and some of them strippers for a long time. I wouldn't ever disrespect our champions by saying I don't want to be associated or linked to strippers because they are great performers and people. Pole dancing in the Olympics won't change competitions like USPDF where you are not only judged on your tricks but your ability to FLOW them together and create something artistic and dance like - whether you're more like a ballerina or a stripper...ARTISTRY is expected and encouraged. Olympic pole dancing will truly be tricking out. If it got in - I'd watch it...if it doesn't - I'm not sad. It will probably be judged much like figure skating with points being given on execution, technique and flexibility - artistry will likely rank low. Actually it might even get boring to watch like competitive ice skating and gymnastics have. But that's not hurting anyone In the end if it gets in it won't be called pole dancing but I think it could be beneficial to studios and get the apparatus out there, Eventually it will be taken over by youth performers and as Veena and Empy said there is nothing in pole dancing that would be wrong for a child to do - body waves, hip rolls and floorwork won't have a place in the Olympics so it's based on moves and a lot of apparatuses have gymnasts doing straddles and splits - like the uneven bars. The only thing I really hate about the Olympic bid is that it creates division between sexy and fitness dancers. I'd like to see us all get along and embrace the ROOTS (stripping) and the FUTURE (Olympic type competitions.)
Quote from Charley: "The only thing I really hate about the Olympic bid is that it creates division between sexy and fitness dancers. I'd like to see us all get along and embrace the ROOTS (stripping) and the FUTURE (Olympic type competitions.)" EPIC statement!! Take a bow! 🥂
@Charley, I don't know if I think that a division has been created between us all as pole dancers, is that what you mean? I think we all have enough love of the sport collectively, and are aware that we cop enough flak externally, to all stick together and be supportive as a group. I am not a stripper, therefore it makes me cross to be taken for one, however, that's not taking anything away from those who are. All power to them. However, i would very, very much like to see the sport taken seriously and while the world at large thinks we are all strippers, that is not going to happen, imho. Not because strippers are not worthy, just because strippers are not seen as athletes, dancers or artists. And I am not saying this is MY opinion, but you have to admit, this is how they are seen.....
Veena ·
I wanted to add that I really have no problem if others want pole to be in the Olympics. ❤️ I just don't want people thinking that this is the way we'll get everyone to accept pole. I also don't want everyone to assume that it will be the pole dance style that most know and love. For example we wont see the sexy Alethea style pole at the Olympics. It will be different and that is fine with me, just not something I personally jump for joy over. I enjoy Chinese pole but it doesn't hold my interest as much as artistic pole dance. So again, I'm not saying no one should try to push for pole in the Olympics. 😉 The way to gain respect and approval is by example. If we stop hiding what we do and talk about it like its a normal acceptable thing (cuz it IS) slowly but surely others will see pole can be beautiful regardless of what style.
@Veena; Kudos to you. PERFECTLY said. 🌸
Thank you Veena for expressing what I could not. 🙂
Cinara ·
I am absolutely 100% against pole dancing being an Olympic sport, and here's why: Who here ever practises at a physical studio, takes lessons in person, has ever been to a pole jam, or is rocking on the pole despite starting as an adult? If pole dancing becomes an Olympic sport, all of this could be gone. Growing up, I did gymnastics, diving and trampolining. I competed in all three, because I didn't really have a choice. In Olympic sports, the people who do it for fun or fitness are treated like second-class citizens compared to those who have a chance of going to THE OLYMPICS!!! This ranges from bullying and snide comments from the competitive athletes, being ignored or put down by instructors, and just plain lack of access to facilities. Generally, there is one practice time available per week for adult athletes and if you can't make it then (because, you know, you're an adult and have committments) too bad. And if the coach leaves, or the timeslot is needed by someone else, guess who loses their only practice time? When it comes to acrobatic sports in the Olympics, it's entirely about children and it is made clear that adults are not welcome to participate in the sport at any level. Why children? Because of the greater plasticity of the child's brain, the better natural flexibility, and the potential to delay puberty through overexercise and dieting, resulting in a lighter, smaller athlete. This all leads to more complex skills to wow the judges. Sure it can border on child abuse, and contributes to the obesity epidemic by making sure only naturally talented and rich children have access to that mode of exercise, but at least the viewers at home have something speccy to look at. You may think parents would be uncomfortable with their small children poledancing - but trust me, the allure of sending a child to the Olympics will be much stronger for a lot of parents. Well, now that I've accused the Olympics of causing child abuse and obesity :p, do I really think it will be that bad? Maybe not. Maybe the legacy of poledancing in strip clubs will protect it from this fate. It may go the way of Tae Kwon Do and split into two streams: Pole fitness at the Olympics (with 12 year old Chinese girls performing amazing feats for the gold, while Australian girls are hothoused and pushed to the point of nervous breakdowns trying to beat them out, rampant eating disorders, shoulder reconstruction surgery as a matter of course, and absolutely no artisitc merit whatsoever, but moves that make the spatchcock look like an intermediate move) Pole dancing competitions in strip clubs (much older athletes, real dancing, but nowhere near as fancy moves, and probably a lot of slut-shaming coming from the Olympic Pole Fitness camp). I suppose this would be a liveable solution, but I will not sign the petition because I've seen it all before and I just want to keep children off the poles (well, except in their parents houses/studios - that's cute!)
Well said Cinara, I couldn't agree more. Please show your support here : http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10150105879130343 I also love the freedom of expression and sensualness of pole which would be removed if it were an olympic sport and the fact that it's not yet a mainstream fitness activity because I enjoy the reactions I get when I tell people I do it! LOL ;) It's fantastic that all the top pole dancers (or most anyway) are mothers in their 30's and 40's, I'd much prefer to watch Pantera and Felix than prepubescent "farmed" gymnasts.
Sanchara ·
thats what I was talking about earlier about late vs. early specialzation sports. Say a fifteen year old sees herself as the next Felix - at this point in her life she is not going to train exclusivly in Pole Dance Sport - she will do Pole, Gymnastics, Ballet, Acro, soccer, track and feild. But she won't drop the other sports untill she is in her twenties preparing to go to worlds and the olympics in the next few years. Artistic sport at the elite level is still artistic. How artistic it is depends entirely on how important artistry is in the scoreing. In artistic gymnastics you aren't really rewared that much for artistry which is why you see such "sterile" routeins. if our rules make those things important than we will see them. :)
Cinara ·
My apologies for not seeing your post on early and late specialization. I would guess that pole dancing would begin as a later specialization sport (mostly picking up the gymnasts-with-lumbar-spine-stress-fractures market, which in my experience is where a lot of sucessful trampolinists, divers and sports acrobats come from), but over time, the advantages of being younger would outweigh those of being older. The lower body weight of being pre-pubescent would be just as useful as increased strength, and when you add to that the better natural flexibility, better neuroplasticity for learning complex moves and spatial awareness, better compliance with instructor directions due to less assertiveness and the lack of a day job, meaning more time to train, and less adult committments would eventually outweigh anything else. There may be a bit of a cultural difference here. Are extra-curricular activities needed to get into university in Canada like in the US? Because in Australia, where tertiary education is based on academics only, if a fifteen year-old wanted to go to the Olympics she would almost always be training exclusively in that sport (with maybe weights sessions as well) by that age at the latest. But I guess in the US (and maybe Canada?) where you need to have well-rounded extra-curricular activities for tertiary education it would be necessary for a fifteen year old to train in multiple sports. The other cultural difference is that Australia is completely insane about sporting achievement. Plus with a small population, and therefore a small talent pool, we need to pour so much money, and heap so much pressure on our athletes to maintain our level of insanity. You're right about sports that have an artistic component. I'd forgotten about them. And now I think about it, pole probably would have an artisitc component, especially because it is more likely to be accepted as completly independent sport than part of gymnastics. Gymnastics barely tolerates trampolining as it is, let alone something that comes from (gasp!) strip clubs. So maybe the artistry will stay, which would make a difference.
Helping the general public recognize that there are elements of pole dancing that many do not comprehend is a benefit to acceptance of the art form for sure. Olympic accreditation would accelerate that journey. However the sure fact there will more likely be a form of Olympic pole dancing in which the sensual side of the work is abstracted, feels a bit unsettling to me. Many of the roots of this work would be off limits. Others before me in this tread point out that obvious factor quite clearly. Maybe the male side of pole would actually receive a bigger boost in the butt so to speak. Validation and recognition. Still I fear that pole Olympics would migrate into pole gymnastics by nature. That's one part of the pole pie but most assuredly not the impetus that brought me to this art form. In the end I look at this the same light I would consider ballet, modern, jazz or hip hop as an Olympic routine. NOT. It's a performance art, internally and externally. Sure you can judge it but honestly would you want to watch a sexless tango?
Forgot to add..... ^ What do you guys think about this petition?
Forgot to add..... ^ What do you guys think about this petition?
Peaceloveblonde, while I can appreciate the drive to put pole dancing in the olympics for some, and I think they are perfectly entitled to ask and and try to get it to happen. However, I agree with others above; we need to be recognized as a sport, we need more representation within the sports field. And, besides that, while I have nothing against the writers of this petition, but I think something that was more professional would gain us ground. Multiple question marks (particularly at the end) and comparison to BMX biking is not entirely a good way of showing our community as professional and adult. Forgive me if I'm harsh, it's just that...well, if we don't make a good first impression, how are we to redeem that?
I enjoy mainly the artistic and expressive side of pole and I feel that it compares to cirque or ballet, I feel it would take something away from the art to over standardise. I agree that pole 'language' needs to be universal but there are too many combinations possible, I mean, the Mongolians have 300 words to describe horse colour...Pole is a little like that, there are lots of beautiful variations. I feel it would make pole more elitist and more intimidating to older ladies and gents who would wish to take it up. I love how with pole literally anyone can give it a go, and the community welcomes them. I wouldn't want this to be lost. For some reason imagining olympic polers just makes me a little sad.
Sanchara ·
Whether a sport is late or early specialization is largely controlled by the code of points and the sport's origins. Since the optimal window of trainability for strength in females is toward the end of PHV (Peak Height Velocity - the primary growth spurt-in girls between the ages if 14 and 18) As a result my guess is that Olympic level polers would likely be between 17 and 28. So a fifteen year old would be in the "Training to Compete" (http://www.canadiansportforlife.ca/default.aspx?PageID=1017&LangID=en) stage of Long Term Athlete Development. So you're right Cianara, but she would just be starting to specilize. I also agree that a lot of the athletes in Pole Sport would be athletes moving on from others at first but at the same time as the sport grew you'd see more exculsive Pole Athletes who started from the beggining heading down that path. A little off topic but are you a Trampoliner Cianara? if so GIANT props to you! I'm terrified of the trampline at my gym (it bites lol) I think people should accept the relationship between artistic/cirque Pole Dance and Competitive Pole Sport as what it is and not be so quick to trash the other. I'm an elite level competive Vaulter, does that mean I can't apriciate and learn from the things that that the cirque bareback riders learn to do? no of course not!! in fact one of my idols is a man who spent his youth in the competitive stream and decided to make a career in the performance side of things. We just have to accept that Pole Dance and Pole Sport are sisters and love them for who they are. These athletes are very artistic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WSBKIUfvtw ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brJ_fGHH3Ks And these artists are very athletic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXmzMvSXZ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mrjd84PzSo ;
Veena ·
I don't feel anyone here was Trashing any one.......😕
Cinara ·
Yep, I used to do trampolining, but my progress was severely limited by the fear factor. And I must admit, my experiences in trampolining make me a little emotional about the Olympics issue. When I started there were a lot of people in their late teens, and a few adults and we were all really great friends, though the standard of trampolining was not that great. I had a tough time in high school, so I have some really fond memories of the friendships I made. Then we had a new coach come from overseas and start making the sport very serious. Now anyone over the age of about 15 is made to feel very unwelcome, because they're taking up valuable trampolining time that could go to the "serious" competitors. So the average age of trampolinists is like, 12, which makes you feel a bit creepy and weird. Plus, if I didn't want to compete, I was only able to attend one 90 minute class per week, at one location in the whole state and no more. It just killed all the fun out of the sport. But anyway, I hope it didn't come off as though I was trashing pole fitness (maybe I was trashing gymnastics a little...sorry), because the two types of pole dance seem to really just come down to dance styles, trick choices and costumes with a lot of blurriness between the two. So I love both, in as far as I can tell them apart :) My only real concern is that there is sometimes an undercurrent (mainly on youtube, not here) of "We're not strippers, we're athletes" as though strippers or poledancers in clubs are inferior or trashy, and I would be concerned that if pole dancing became an Olympic sport it could further marginalise women who work in that industry.
