Mixing pole and belly dance...

glitterhips started this discussion · 6/12/2010

This is inspired from some comments I saw on Veena's June challenge about belly dancers getting angry about girls mixing belly dance and pole. I was very interested in belly dance about 7-8 years ago so I ended up getting serious about it and taking a lot of classes and eventually teaching beginner level but it kind of dropped to the back burner and I haven't done it in a long time. But I did know a lot of belly dancers and I remember how upset we would all get about how controversial belly dance was at the time and why people couldn't look at it as a form of dance. So it's kind of funny they aren't realizing that some people feel that pole and belly dance are on an equal "sexual" plane (even though we all know better obviously) so the belly dancers should understand what it's like to be part of something that is so controversial....but I know belly dance is not nearly as shocking as it seemed to be when Shakira came on the scene so maybe they've forgotten what all the fuss was about in the first place. But also I don't even understand how they can say NOT to mix any styles of dance no matter what they are, are they the dance police?!?! If they feel like mixing them is giving belly dance a bad name, guess what, it already had one! It's just not as big of a deal as it used to be. And pole will probably not be as big of a controversy as it is now five years down the road. And belly dance or no belly dance why can't we all just support each other as artists and dancers!? That's why I'm glad everyone here is so supportive of each other constantly, we have an awesome group of dancers here I think 🙂 I feel like a jerk for posting this but I just had to get it out there, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, not my intention 🌸

16 replies

Charley · 6/12/2010
We interviewed a belly dancer who refused to be filmed in our studio because of the poles. I basically told her to hit the road. She said if she danced on video - mind you she would be belly dancing NOT pole dancing - but having the poles in the room would be disrespectful to her and all bellydancers. I basically said if ou feel you would be dishonored by being filmed with a pole on the background or a pole related logo then you obviously do not share our mission and goals. You are being disrespectful to us and our clients.
nymphdancer · 6/12/2010
that is just sad charley and here I was hoping to find someone to teach belly dance out of my studio 😢
chemgoddess1 · 6/12/2010
that is just sad charley and here I was hoping to find someone to teach belly dance out of my studio 😢 Not all are like this. Cleveland Exotic has someone who teaches belly dance as does Jasmine Dragons. Be had tried but the studio is too small to have classes.
amcut · 6/13/2010
Seriously, though. It's an effing harem dance. If that's not 2 seconds from a lapdance, I do not know what is. I've gotten into this discussion a few times- and every time, the belly dancer tries to tell me about the "origins of belly dance" being woman-on-woman dancing. While I don't doubt women danced for eachother with their bellies out, and made undulations at eachother.. we also shake our asses for eachother. I also dislike the child birth origin.... 'cause it looks like harem dance. Doesn't remind me of childbirth, and doesn't remind me of what we do at sleepovers.. looks like something we do to attract a man.. much like booty shaking. Point is. We're all taking cue from the sexiest women to walk the earth. No harm, no blame, no need for the hoity toity.
Tine007 · 6/13/2010
OK. I'm a belly dancer. I'm a pole dancer. I joined a troupe that fuses belly dance, hoop dance and Burlesque. Do I need to say more?!?? 👽 I can't say it better than my belly dance idol and teacher Suhaila Salimpour: http://www.suhailainternational.com/video_director.php In addition my 2 cents: - I love to fuse the two, as well as any other form of dance I know, depending on how it fits the music. IMHO, fusing styles creates something new, unique and very pretty. - "Classical" cabaret style belly dance with glittery costumes and veils was born in Hollywood. The dancers in the Middle East picked it up because the rich Americans seemed to like it. - Tribal belly dance is an American invention. And then there is Tribal Fusion belly dance, fusing belly dance with anything thinkable, from chinese dance to yoga to ballet. - Anyone can do whatever they want - as long as it's legal. If someone doesn't like it (and that's true for anything, really) , nobody is forced to watch 🧿 - Pole is sexy, yes. Belly dance is sexy (if you like it or not). Salsa is sexy. Tango... And how about ballroom - two bodies pressed against each other that not even a sheet of paper fits in between... IMHO, any person moving with grace and confidence is sexy 🥂 🥂 🥂 - "Sexy", in all its flavors, mainly happens in the brain of the observer. Even something like walking down the street, executed without the slightest thought about "sexy" or not, can be perceived as sexy by someone watching. (And don't get me started about guys who get all excited watching videos of young gymnasts... 💪 ) Anything you say can get a "dirty" twist in the ear of the listener. If you are not comfortable being looked at as sexy and have guys stick money in your belt (that's how you tip a belly dancer, at least in the US) then don't perform in public. - How about the moves??? Belly dance and "exotic" dance moves are very similar, which makes it especially suitable to cross. Think of all those hip circles, figure-8s, hip pops, body waves, etc. etc. Now I really wanna do a video "How the poler does it vs. How the belly dancer does it" 😂 - Belly dance is an Art. Pole is an Art. We both want to be appreciated as such. So why not appreciate each other? - Belly dance is hard. Every belly dancer knows that. Pole is hard. Every poler knows that. If you don't believe me take a class (BTW, my pole studio offers belly dance classes) ☀️ The challenge for both (and any other form of dance) is to make the audience believe it's not 😉 - I like pole for its diversity. I like belly dance for its diversity. I appreciate and respect anyone moving gracefully to music (and even without) 👍 👍 👍 Why not celebrate out diversity? 🥂 🥂 🥂 Would be boring if we all danced the same, no?! OK, I think I'm done, LOL!!! Sorry it turned out so long 😳 -Tine007
angel6101 · 6/13/2010
Tine, I love that you posted that link...I'm also a fan of Suhaila 🥂 Being a Belly Dancer and Pole Dancer and former exotic dancer I find it funny how one shuns the other when at one time is was dirty to be a belly dancer. While I feel there's some value to holding on to traditions and not fussing I don't think as an artist we should dictate who can do what with their craft. I have fused the 2 many times (I used to do a mix of belly and pole to Godsmack's-Voodo on stage....talk about a big no no lol). However, sometimes I enjoy keeping my belly dancing more traditional, it just depends on my mood. I think it's a shame that there's a need to outwardly critize someone for being a pole dancer or fusing dance styles. If you don't like it fine it's your personal preference but keep it to yourself and respect the artist. Fusing is all about creation and usually breads new styles....look at hip hop it's all about blending and mixing. I think it really comes to down to artist interpretation and to me that is a beautiful thing 🙂
Charley · 6/13/2010
My one encounter with the first belly dancer we interviewed left such a sour taste on my mouth that I am not even sure I want to include it on our schedule. No dance form should be able to tell people when, where and how they can perform. I really wanted to learn belly dance too. I took a quick little kids class and thought it was extrememly challenging. I love the way it could compliment my pole dancing...I'm just not ready for the drama. I was really surprised to hear a belly dancer tell me that she didn't want to be thought of as a stripper...none of my clients would want to be thought of as a stripper either. And ultimately as WOMEN we need embrace each other, stripper, belly dancer or pole dancer and stop drawing lines about who is and who is not too sexy.
Tine007 · 6/14/2010
I'm sorry, Charley, that you had such a bad experience!! 😕 I don't get why she even came when she doesn't want to dance/teach in the presence of poles 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 Big surprise, there's poles in a pole studio ❓ ❗ ❗ 🧿 Even if the studio name doesn't give it away, I'd expect people to do their homework *before* interviewing for anything 📚 I hope you find someone who is excited about sharing belly dance to pole dancers, and vice versa 🙂
Veena · 6/14/2010
So far I have had no complaints about my Belly and Pole dance vid, so that's surprising. I'm sure they're coming. Every single video I post to YT gets complains and rude comments. Its the nature of those who have no life. 🙄 The way I see it.....its not art if you always do everything the same as everyone else. If someone doesn't like the way I do something... that's not my problem. lol 🤓
Sparklie · 6/14/2010
I find the response to this idea odd, but I was also in the same boat with Middle eastern dance (Belly dance) as well... I have been dancing and performing professionally for about ten years now, and this idea is the first I'm hearing about it. Then again most all of the professionals I know and perform with are exotic dancers too. If we want to be really honest with it Middle Eastern dance was never meant for men's eyes. It was originally a gathering of women connecting with their spirituality/worship, teaching child birthing to the younger ladies (the undulation of the body), Women figuring out who their sons would marry, and promoting unity amongst women. All of this is due to cultural reasons. The dancing that we see in the US is a fusion form of Middle eastern dance to begin with (Arabic and Moroccan). It wasn't seen by men until Little Egypt came to the US and made it a hoochie koochie dance for entertainment. That is how it got the bad rap in the first place, and the myth that it was the origins of stripping. There are various other cultural differences in US belly dancing and Middle eastern Belly dancing, but I won't go on for hours about them. In short, I dance both styles. They are both very sensual and can be very sexual too, but that is how the performer interpenetrates the movement and isolation.
Sapphirecatzeye · 6/14/2010
This is such a interesting forum and i am surprised someone didnt use belly dance in pole before now, or the topic come up. Everyone knows i'm one to mix forms of art together. After A year of pole, i was really interested in tribal belly dance, which is why i have the tattoo on my stomach, I self studied at home, and then was hired by a middle eastern restaurant to dance there on the weekends. I will say the belly dance world, (well professional world) sometimes they are picky about tribal vs Egyptian, and styles and music etc..also you have to keep in mind its origins, sometimes come from conservative countries.. (Although please dont tell me im being to general about whatever im saying or what not, im just commenting from first hand experience) So you have some places that hire bellydancers and want the woman looking and acting one way, and some dont care and long as your a good dancer. You will find the tribal belly dance world is more forgiving of fusion of styles , tattoos, cultures, but more people are use to looking at the Egyptian style. I never used belly dance in pole because, well... i thought my costume was to heavy to do anything on the pole with it, but i have nothing against fusing styles, by any means. Branching out and learning to explore new things is what being human is all about. And i really think despite what alot of hardcore bellydancers would like to admit, pole dance (as of the recent years) has alot more in common with belly dance than most think.
Sapphirecatzeye · 6/14/2010
oh and i thought it would be fun to post a pic of some of my ol belly dance days , cause i figured some might think i was making it up or something... lol http://localhosthttp://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/59/l_92229225b3f1c9f64481a7a7f11a03ae.jpg http://localhosthttp://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/38/l_2d1c969a615ca888524375931652936d.jpg the name of the resterant was shahenshah dinner in Georgia, and they had the BEST food everrrrrrrrrrr
sosagely · 6/15/2010
We have a belly dancer who teaches belly dance at my pole studio. She performs at every event that the polers do. So, I'm glad to know that not all are so closed minded. It never fails to amaze me how those who were once victims of prejudice, forget and then cast judgement on others (it happens over and over in history). I read in Veenas comments on that video that 'belly dancers have fought so hard to show people they aren't strippers"...and yet, look they have now "risen above" the label and have become bullies themselves. "They" being those bellydancers like the one Charley came across. How rude! I can only hope that someday that woman discovers pole for what it really is and is humbled with guilt. I am so sick of this! I don't know what I thought of pole before I started, but I really don't think I had an opinion of it. We live in 2010 people! They have shows on daytime t.v. where women are being raped and beheaded (which I was privy to see while waiting for my oil change in the waiting room of jiffy lube the other day), but we are all up in arms over some women expressing themselves while touching a metal pole? 🤔 I really don't get it. I'm soooo hate this "I'm a classy woman, your a whore..." attitude that women have towards eachother. It's everywhere, and I'm O-V-E-R it. Anyway, these "haters" don't own belly dance (or any dance for that matter) so we will do what we please with it. If they have a problem, they are more than welcome to not watch. 😀
polefairy · 6/21/2010
Hehehehe I just watched Veena's video. The bit around 2.25 where she's doing a pole sit but with a little booty shake is adorable!! I'm gona try that, it's so cute!! 😀
DesireeMann · 6/22/2010
Ok I have not read every post on here. But I am a bellydancer of 8 years. And I think Pole FREAKING ROCKS!!! I agree why not mix it up.
marle777 · 6/27/2010
As a continual fuser of genres, I have to say I agree with pretty much most of what was said already. Veena, you did a wonderful job at a difficult effort, belly dance and pole dance can be very different in their timing and flow. I think some of the baladi egyptian & revival carabet styles are more languid and adaptable to pole and exotic dance. I'm reminded of the lovely Neena and Veena Bidasha by your style and adorable hairpiece. 🌸 Oh and as an aside note, I believe it is pretty readily apparent to see some of the birthing symbolisms present in ancient bellydance floor work. But even Rachael Brice echoes a similar commentary to previously mentioned Suhalia's sentiments. Bellydance or more appropriately, middle eastern oriental dance, is a complex cultural tapestry with rich spiritual symbolism in all of it's many forms. In fact it gets pretty confusing to identify one cultural stylization from the next at times and then add attempting to fuse it with something else like pole dance which is already a modern fusion of gymnastics, ballet, yoga, burlesque, etc. is fun but exceptionally hard do to well. I hope all bellydancers can see the validity in the graceful world of pole art as the world has recently come to see with their own dance forms. 🌈