Instructors Jumping Into Inverts?

horsecrazy12987 started this discussion · 1/15/2011

So it being winter and all I am not poling for the most part and am instead feeding my addiction with lots and lots of YT pole videos, but I've been noticing a disturbing trend lately--usually I just watch competition vids and some member vids on here so I haven't really noticed it, but recently I've been watching random videos and several of them have been of instructors from various pole studios who are jumping with quite a bit of force into all of their inverts. One in particular I saw today was really bad--she only did one invert in her video and it was just a basic one, but she flung herself up into it with quite a bit of force and then had trouble getting her feet into the proper position. I know we all have bad days-slippery pole, sweaty hands, etc. etc., but I watched it back a couple of times and her hands didn't slip at all--it was just a very sloppy invert. Her floorwork and movement around the pole was nice--if the description had listed her as a student at the studio I would have thought she was progressing quite nicely and just needed to hold off on inverting for a little bit since it looked like she hadn't quite built up the strength to lift into it properly, but reading that she was an actual instructor honestly kind of horrified me. I have never launched myself into an invert like that, and I would never even consider teaching because I don't have enough experience. For those of you who have been to a few different studios either as instructors or students, how often do you see stuff like this? Unfortunately pole dance has become this bandwagon that everyone wants to jump on to make a buck, and it seems as though that has spawned a lot of instructors who have no business teaching. When I first started dancing I was disappointed that there were no studios near me, but now I'm actually kind of relieved that I've just been using Veena's lessons after watching some of these videos!

24 replies

Kobajo84 · 1/15/2011
I've been guilty of jumping into an invert on spin mode to gain momentum to spin the pole. I need to work on a forceful lift for spin mode to get the pole really going. I haven't quite mastered the art of spinny yet either. From my experience of going to other studios, I think a basic invert is typically percieved as being a simple move. I've even heard people say that conditioning exercises weren't really necessary for the basic invert which is sad because without those it leads to the jumping into invert.
miss fern · 1/15/2011
Yes, since there is no official governing body, no trade regulations or industry legislation or any such thing for pole dance - you will find a lot of pole dance instructors and even studio owners are inexperience and have simply "jumped on the bandwagon" just as you said. The best you can do is leave a polite but informative comment on the video, explaining that it looks as though the woman is executing that particular move in a dangerous way, and back yourself up by mentioning what the risks are to which muscles groups and why. If you don't know all this information, perhaps ask an instructor or pole dancer you trust to post this for you. Apart from that, there's little you can do about the video in question. In terms of pole dance as a whole - the more popular it becomes, the more people like that woman will pop up all over the place, looking to get in on a fitness fad and make some money. At the same time though, the population of well-informed, professional pole dancers also increases. Hopefully as we grow, we can reduce the the impact and influence these poorly-trained people have by spreading correct information and technique everywhere that we can! Unfortunately, just as there are crappy doctors, and crappy school teachers, there will always be crappy pole instructors too.
polefairy · 1/15/2011
My first pole instructor told me to jump in. In fact, she said I should hold the pole, take a bit of a run and throw my legs up over my head... needless to say I couldn't do it for a long time. When I finally did learn to invert properly I was stunned by how different it felt to trying to get up there with a big swing. My arms felt less stressed, my shoulders didn't hurt and I felt far more in control and less likely to fall. The same teacher suggested I work on the chopper/inverted V move before a basic invert because it was somehow 'easier' if you just jumped and flung yourself backwards. Yeah right.
horsecrazy12987 · 1/15/2011
"Unfortunately, just as there are crappy doctors, and crappy school teachers, there will always be crappy pole instructors too." True. I did think about leaving a comment on the video about how she was not engaging her muscles properly by flinging herself into the invert like that and was opening herself--and any students she taught as well--to injury by doing that, but then I thought 'well, she's already an instructor, it's not like I can do anything.' But now I've been thinking about it, and people are going to watch that video and figure since she's an instructor she's doing it properly and might emulate her. I'm just trying to figure out exactly how I could word a comment in a way that wouldn't rile anyone too much--nobody listens to constructive criticism if they're pissed off. Kobajo--this was a stationary pole and it was just a static hold she was doing, so she wasn't trying to get momentum for a spin. I push off one foot to get a faster spin if I'm doing a spinning v or scorpio on my pole since it's static only, but even then I'm still lifting into it for the most part. And this wasn't just a little hop or something she did--I can deal with that--this was a fling your legs up and get ahold of it however you could. " I've even heard people say that conditioning exercises weren't really necessary for the basic invert which is sad because without those it leads to the jumping into invert." That's scary--if you don't learn which muscles to use in a basic invert, how are you supposed to understand how to properly execute more advanced inverts? Any instructor claiming that really shouldn't be teaching. It just galls me that people don't stop and think for a second. Pole dancing is very demanding and has the potential for a lot of injuries if safe techniques are not being taught. If you want to be an instructor, fine, but safety should be your number one priority for you and your students.
PoleKitten87 · 1/15/2011
I'm guilty of jumping (kicking) into inverts from time to time, pretty much just being quick/lazy about it because I'm trying to do something else instead. But the instructors at the pole studio I went to have also often jumped into inverts and called them "kick ups" involving a leg kick instead of a lift, which is where we probably picked up the habit when we actually took classes there before taking it upon ourselves to learn on our own. But I also dont kick and grab however I can, I have the control to grab properly. One former student, who was supposedly in the highest advanced level, couldn't invert worth a crap, and would grab with "monkey toes" after flinging up as hard as possible to try and get on the pole. Yet the rest of us who could invert properly were told we weren't skilled enough for that level. Is it a wonder why I no longer attend....
Kobajo84 · 1/15/2011
@horsecrazy12987 I think you should private message the person. I think as an instructor you should be open to constructive critisism. Just because you're an instructor doesn't mean you know everything. Instructors are still students too. We are always learning and sometimes it helps to have someone point something out so we can learn.
polefairy · 1/15/2011
I agree with the private mail idea. Although her video could lead beginners into unsafe habits, it is probably a bit embarrassing for an instructor to take some public criticism like that. I would be worried about prospective students being turned away by reading anything critical online and although I totally agree with you that she should know better, I'd feel terrible for damaging somebody's business, especially when I'm not 100% sure on how safe her teaching style really is. There is always the possibility that she is a beginner level instructor where she won't teach inverts at all. Plus for your sake, you'll save yourself a lot of drama and youtube sniping by telling her privately. I agree if she's teaching students to jump in then she's irresponsible and a danger to her students but we don't know if this is the case from watching one youtube video. :)
lola42day · 1/15/2011
I had the amazing opportunity to take a workshop with Pantera a few months ago. I was scared to go at first and I am so happy that overcame my fear because she is an awesome instructor and I hope to get a chance to take another workshop from her. She would not let anyone jump into any position on the pole for many reasons and in fact called anyone out for doing it... the most important is that it is dangerous. Controlling your body is the only way to get into various inverted positions... and she recommended many strength training exercises. Strengthening your abs and your ability to hold your body in a controlled plank position are a start. I cringe sometimes when I see some videos... only because I know how dangerous and uncontrolled the moves are. Safety is a huge issue... especially when you are hanging upside down a few feet in the air.
JenLFG · 1/15/2011
I have a bad habit of kicking into inverts :-/ I can do it without kicking but it's easier for me to kick into them... I will watch videos of myself after my pole workout & I notice it. That is one big down fall of poling alone at home. No one is there to say "hey goober! Stop kicking into that" lol! When I think about it I can do it the right way though.
horsecrazy12987 · 1/15/2011
I agree PMing is probably best--I definitely feel uncomfortable about calling out someone who is an instructor, particularly when I am not, and while you're right, Polefairy, I don't know how exactly she is teaching from watching one YT vid, I assume that if she is using bad technique to get into even a basic invert in a video, then I would imagine that is how she is demonstrating the moves to her students as well. I too thought that she might be a beginner instructor just teaching spins and floorwork and whatnot, however one of the comments was from someone who said they were a student of hers and that she was now a level 4. I know every studio is different, but every studio I've known of, a level 4 is intermediate at least and inverts are being taught. I guess it depends on how many levels they have, but still. Level 4 seems pretty high for teaching beginner spins and floorwork. I did watch a video of another instructor from the same studio and she was much better--she did hop into her inverts a little bit, but she had a lot more control and didn't have to fumble to get into her invert, which made me feel a bit better, so hopefully it's just this one instructor. She just reminded me of a friend who used to come and pole with me who would attempt to invert even after I cautioned her several times not to because she was an absolute beginner with no upper body strength. After warning her not to do it, she tried inverting three different times whenever I looked away--once she actually managed to, but only by really throwing herself into the move and by pure dumb luck managing to hook her ankles. The instructor didn't use as much momentum as my friend did, but she definitely didn't lift into it and she had trouble getting herself situated once she was upside down. I guess that was why it bothered me so much--it made me cringe when my friend did it because all I could think of was how dangerous it was, and to see an instructor do the same thing, even to a lesser degree just really struck me. I'm really not concerned with a little hop here or there--while I would still much rather see all lift and no hop, I understand sometimes people just push off a foot harder than they mean to, or they're being a bit lazy that day or whatever. What concerns me is when I see almost all momentum and no lift being used to get into an invert.
jooser · 1/16/2011
Sorry to interject into this great conversation, but I don't know if this is done everywhere? I've been a pole student for a year now, and before my teachers even attempted to get us to invert, they made us get on acrobatic rings and (without jumping) told us to pull ourselves up using our core and shoulder muscles. Once we got that, they then said to pull our feet over into a sort of pike... I learnt all my inverts that way, and (touchwood) haven't hurt myself or pulled any muslces. (My teachers over here in Aus are awesome by the way if anyone wants to visit :D)
Runemist34 · 1/16/2011
I agree that this is all very scary to think about, and I think this example throws into sharp relief the fact that we are doing a dangerous sport that is unregulated. Much like cheerleading, we have no "crash mat" of regulation, understanding, or industry safety under us, and if we are learning something wrong, and end up teaching it to others wrong...well... It's also frightening to think about the people in my own town. The local pole studio closed, but the instructors moved on, and opened their own dance studio, though not COMPLETELY focused on Pole, it's quite a big thing for them. My own previous best friend is their "best" pole dancer. I tell the story about how she learned the reverse grab spin from me (I couldn't do it due to lack of strength, but because of her quick progression, I could show it to her by way of explanation), and then showed it to her buddies at the studio...in their ignorance, they named the move after her. The scary thing is that, while she has had a Fitness trainer's course, I took the same one...and it's much more based on simple movement, rather than what I like to call dynamic movement that we do in dance. Like the difference between lifting weights, and dancing. So, the fitness trainer's class wasn't exactly helpful in my mind to what she's teaching. She's the first one to surpass the original pole instructor in town, and moved into things like the Shoulder mount by watching youtube videos, and possibly (hopefully!) other videos that were on DVD. I have great, great hope that she is not instructing people poorly. I almost have the urge to go there and ask her to demonstrate her stuff for me, just so I can make sure. We may not talk a lot (or at all), but I still feel concern for her safety...and that of other people.
HannahElizabeth · 1/16/2011
I bet I know which instructor on YT your talking about!! If it is the same one, as you said her floor work and beginner spins look really nice. By flinging herself up, she makes inverting look so much harder needs to be. It wasnt until after I could invert did I see her basic invert tutorial and think.... Ok, that surely is not how you should be teaching people?! I'm not a teacher but you get a bad feeling sometimes don't you.. She flung herself up with such force I could almost feel her shoulder muscles screaming out and tearing at the force. It literally made me cringe. It was so badly done and I was shocked that she was a teacher after that. As you girls have said, so many people have jumped on the bandwagon because pole dancing is becoming the new cool thing to do. As with anything, as soon as it gets mainstream people start to ruin it :( As long as we stay strong and do it properly then there is still hope! :D
horsecrazy12987 · 1/16/2011
Jooser--I wish all pole teachers taught like that! I incorporate rings into my non-pole workouts, and it definitely helps you to understand how to engage the muscles necessary to pull yourself upside down on a pole. I've been doing strength training since I was a teenager, so over the last several years I've done lots of chin-ups and pull-ups, and that's how I think of doing an invert--when you're doing a proper chin-up you're in a dead hang and can't use momentum or jumping to get up to the bar, so I pull myself up the same way I would while doing a chin-up. That really helped me visualize how to do it using my muscles and not my momentum. I think too many people just invert before they have the strength to do it properly because it looks cool. That's exactly what my friend was doing--though I told her several times that a proper invert, even a basic one, took a lot more upper body and ab strength than you would imagine, she still decided she was going upside down and just hurled herself into it. I'm glad she doesn't have her own pole and won't have the financial means to get one for a long time, because I know she'd be inverting on it despite what I told her and would probably end up injured eventually, or at the very least picking up some very bad habits. A lot of people do the same thing, it's just unfortunate that some of them go on to teach. HannahElizabeth--it sounds like the same one. I cringed too when I saw it, and then when I realized she was an actual instructor my jaw dropped a little bit. All I could think was how dangerous it was and how many people might be picking her bad habits up as well. I actually showed the video to my sister, who knows next to nothing about pole dancing except that it looks cool, and even she said it looked pretty clunky. I don't think she was as horrified as me, but that's probably just because she doesn't know how to invert and doesn't understand just how badly it was done. To her, it just either looks good or it doesn't look good.
PennyGirl · 1/16/2011
I was initial taught to actually stop on one foot and kick/jump as high as I could until I was upside down. Bad bad bad. Having been so very new and anxious to get up side down that's what I did until I hurt my friggin back. After posting a vid I was quickly given contructive criticism from veena, sissy, and a few others that I should never ever invert that way. So I back off and began to try and teach myself how to pull up with my abs and such. Still not perfect but much much Stronger and no more Jumping. Because there are no real governing authorities on specific form some people Interpret what is acceptable differently and unfortunately students who don't know any better learn the hard way.
Madfelice · 1/16/2011
I I was also taught to kick up into inverts to start with. We were told that lifting up into them was the next step on and that was what we were to work towards. Kicking just didn't feel right to me, the movement just didn't make sense, all that kicking just to get upside down and all! Anyway, long story short, I didn't like the kicking so within a couple weeks I was lifting. My friends are for the most part still kicking however as they feel unable to lift yet and although I had never thought about it before, now I am a bit concerned for them. One of them has already hurt her back and had to take time off from pole dancing. I don't feel that I can tell them what they are doing is wrong because it is what they were taught but I will be encouraging them to work on lifting as soon as they possibly can!
horsecrazy12987 · 1/16/2011
Back injuries seem to be pretty common for people who kick up into inverts. It is very important to engage your abdominal muscles in any type of exercise you do, but particularly during lifting exercises, because this protects your back. If they are using momentum to get into an invert, chances are they're not paying any attention to their abs, so it doesn't surprise me that people are coming away with hurt backs. I wish instructors wouldn't teach a kick up as a precurser to lifting--instead of teaching students to kick up if they're not ready to lift, they could be using that time to go over strength training that could help their students properly lift into an invert.
yogabeachbabe · 1/16/2011
My first instructor said something like: "just throw your head back & kick up". Ouch! Yeah, it took a while to get past that one! I didn't realise how much that sunk into my psyche until I start working on a dead-lift inversion. Now I feel so much stronger and more connected. It really is sad how often I see "advanced" girls in class who are working on handsprings or straight-edges that don't invert properly. You can see them struggling to get a toe on the pole. They're so strong in so many ways--they'd be even more fantastic if only they'd go back to the basics.
JenLFG · 1/16/2011
LMAO! i just realized this thread said "Instructors Jumping Into Inverts?" && i replied to it thinking it was just about jumping into inverts. 😮 i was just following up to say i would not attempt to teach pole to anyone! well, not at this point in my life because i have not been trained. 😉 didn't want y'all to think i was trying to teach pole to anyone.
PennyGirl · 1/16/2011
Hey Scandalicious...it's no biggie. (ur comment) Honestly I think so many people learn bad habits when they first start anything without professsional instruction...look at how many BAD DRIVERS there are on the road lol! surely the thread was to be more focused on instructors who are teaching the wrong techniques but you made a good point...where there are instructors like that there are impressionable students like you and I learning those bad habits. I think we can count ourselves lucky to have access to the right people who care enough to say "hey goober stop kicking" hahahahahaah!! have a shiny Penny day!!
JenLFG · 1/16/2011
yes! i am so thankful for this site! if it weren't for posting my videos on here i would still be doing tons of stuff wrong 🙁 i love the constructive criticism 🥂 it really helps me to notice & correct my mistakes!
horsecrazy12987 · 1/16/2011
Penny, for some reason it cracks me up that you say 'goober.' Maybe because I haven't heard anyone really say it since I was little--that was what my dad would call my sister and I if we were being weird. I kind of miss that word. lol
PennyGirl · 1/17/2011
Haha I'll be honest I totally just stole that from scandaliciois lol! But yep it's funny all the same :-) Have a shiny penny day!
JenLFG · 1/17/2011
& I stole that from my daddy :-) lol!