Instructors, I need advice!

Dancing Paws started this discussion · 6/16/2011

To all you pole instructors. Is there anyone out there who rents space in a dance studio? If so, what kind of insurance coverage is required in that situation and what is the typical rate of said coverage. I have gotten 2 different quotes. One company said I would be considered a "personal trianer" and quoted me at MOST $230/ year. Another company said I need general liability, professional liability, and insurace of "my dance school" (even though I'm renting???) and quoted me $625/ year. I am so confused and it is stressing me to the point of tears. I really want to get some bellydance classes started, and when I am good enough and certified, pole classes. Also, does anyone know what kind of licenses I need? I was told a DBA, SBA, EIN, and a resale license. :*(

28 replies

Mary Ellyn · 6/17/2011
It doesn't matter if you rent space in a studio or rent your own location...this is still YOUR business and you are the one stuck paying full insurance costs for what services you are providing. Most companies will charge based on volume of customers/students. Once you start teaching pole, if you actually let them know what you'[re adding to your classes as you should to assure proper coverage, your insurance will be more than if you are just teaching belly dancing. Necessary licenses will depend on where you are teaching and what the city, town, state requires.
Mary Ellyn · 6/17/2011
oh...more thoughts on the licenses. Why a DBA? Are you already incorporated? You need to be if not. Yes to the EIN Resale license if you intend to sell products like poles, shoes, shorts, etc. SBA...not familiar with this one. This is more my husband's area of expertise.
Dancing Paws · 6/17/2011
The more I find out what other studios are paying and covered for in the area the more I realize that I will need to be VERY insured. Some teachers say they have NO insurance, so studios say they are paying $200 a year, which for a studio seems way too low, etc. I don't think any of the independent intructors have any of these licenses. This is all making me think that $6225 per year is a good deal.
LizzyLiz810 · 6/17/2011
www.dancestudioinsurance.com they insure pole dancing for around $450-$500 a year. I suggest calling them. Tell them Beauty In Motion Fitness referred you. Its the only insurance i found that covers pole. Its been a really big hassle. What empryme said above is correct.
polekitcat · 6/17/2011
LizzyLiz and Empyrean are both correct. Follow the advice on this post and you will be fine. However make sure you get covered as far as insurance. Empyrean... thanks for any and all advice you have given me and others as well... we are opening our doors this weeked!!!
Dancing Paws · 6/17/2011
Thank you so much guys. This has become a nightmare! I'm getting better info here than anywhere else.
Mary Ellyn · 6/17/2011
There are a number of companies that cover pole...but you need to make certain they understand what you need and you need to make certain that they offer the coverage you want. Be careful with group insurance plans that have a general aggregate...this means that you are sharing your coverage limits with the rest of the group. If someone in the group has a large claim you can lose your coverage for the rest of the term because you are sharing your risk with them. My insurance runs around $800 a year right now. Polekitcat....best of luck to you! I know you're going to run a fantastic studio!
Dancing Paws · 6/17/2011
Called the dance studio insurance co. and I am happy with what they told me. I got all the details then discussed it with a local insurance agent who told me it sounds like a really good deal. I think I found my insurance provider! Thanks guys!!!!
LizzyLiz810 · 6/17/2011
yayy awesome! i like them alot too!
pegasusaerialfitness · 6/19/2011
Hi, I own a Pilates and Pole facility in California. So You need to check what you in need your state. Here are my questions...Are you renting space in a dance studio by the Hour or are you renting a Part of this facilty. Like a 1000 square foot room on a monthly basis? If you are renting by the hour and are an independant contractor then you probably are considered a "personal trainer" BUT you should look into being considered a "gymnastics instructor" once you start teaching pole. Most IC's out here pay a couple hundred dollars a year for their inusrance. You mentioned that you will only teaching belly dancing at first right? In genreal an IC needs liabilty..when you have"property" you might need more insurance. I have a lot of equiment for Pilates and Pole, I have Property Insurance and Liabilty Insurance, I also put about 20,000 into improvements into the building I rent, so I have property insurance that includes this "buildout" of the business. If get broken into or a window gets broken insurnace would help fix that stuff. DBA is a "doing business as"...Are you using your own name or a "business name" I ahve the DBA of Pegasus Pilates, but I am a sole propieter and I use my social sercurity number instead of an EIN. You can get an EIN....Its just a different way the IRS can Identify you for your taxes. EINs are easy to get....So it's a SS# or EIN. Not a big deal. Do not incorporate until you know you are making enough money to cover the costs of the minimum fees that they have every year....And it's a lot more paper work, lawers fees, blah//blah..blah...blah..I've been told by my legal prefessionals....wait to become a corp until you know it's worth it. 9 years later almost worth it, but until the economy gets better i'm holding off. I only know the SBA and the "Small Business Association" they are a resouce for small business's and have "SBA Loans". The IRS Website has a slot of information for small business to make sure they are filing correctly. Check it out...You want the IRS on your good side always. I have a brick and mortar facility so I have a business licsnence in the city I have my business. Check to see what your city requires. I would recommend a seperate business bank account so that your are not mixing biz and personal money. In CA and you have DBA you have to list your DBA in the paper a few weeks and bring in proof before you can open your account. If you use your own name foryour business your don't need a DBA, I still recommend a seperate account. I hope this helps a little. A resale Cert. is a liscence if you intend on selling things to clients. It enables you the ability to "buy wholesale" from companies. You have to keep VERY GOOD track of your enventory and pay your sales tax that you have collected from the sales of your wholesale items. They usually have lots of good info on there website revelavant to where YOU live.
Dancing Paws · 6/19/2011
I think OR requires businesses to register under some sort of label (i.e inc, LLC,corp, etc.) It's only $100 per year to register as a LLC, which I was told covers your butt more than an inc since you are considered "Limited Liability." I like the idea of additional security so people have less of a case if they want to sue. I don't think it is as big of a hassel here. I called the state insurance commissioner and he made it sound pretty simple. I don't any lawyers are needed. Just fill out the paperwork, pay the money and you are set. Oregon WANTS businesses because it WANTS JOBS! We don't have sales tax here in OR, so that won't be a problem at all. :D I spoke with an agent and he told me the necessary coverages for someone in my position, are general liabiliyt, professional liability, property damage, and possibly additional insured. I am marrying into a family with an accountant who can help me with taxes, so I'm not worried there at all.
LizzyLiz810 · 6/19/2011
LLC is better than a sole prop because if someone decides to sue, they can sue only your company, and not take away your own personal stuff. If you have a sole prop, someone can sue and end up taking your home/car etc.
JeHanne · 6/19/2011
Business classifications rest within the level of risk a business owner is willing to accept. LLC is a limited Liability Corporation. LLCs have the advantage of protecting your personal assets in the event of damages filed. So the business and you are two separate legal entities. Lower risk of losing personal assets. There is a cost associated to that but when you factor the risk of losing all of your personal assets... well worth it for peace of mind. There are individual business owners that can go a lifetime and not have any damages that affect their personal assets. Entirely up to you which option you choose, its what you are comfortable with.
Dancing Paws · 6/19/2011
I WANT TO separate my name from my business. I'd rather lose my poles than all my personal stuff.
LizzyLiz810 · 6/19/2011
Yes then u need an LLC. Go to the IRS website and apply for your EIN. Its easy. You dont have to use legal zoom or anything...most people dont know that and end up paying when they dont need to.
Mary Ellyn · 6/19/2011
Actually you do not need an LLC to protect yourself - incorporation provides the same protection for small businesses and is not necessary (in some states it's an extra expense and/or more paperwork) than incorporation. But you should have one or the other in order to protect yourself! This is the only way to separate your personal assets from your business! There are all sorts of minor differences which is why it's best to consult with a professional...a business consultant, accountant or attorney, to understand the differences and how they affect you and which is best for you.
Dancing Paws · 6/19/2011
Our community college has a business division that helps people with their business related questions. I have an appointment on Wednesday. The insurance commussioner told me they should know everything I need to do with registering my business and what type to file under.
LoneStarDiva · 6/19/2011
Insurance is ALWAYS worh it! You never know what sort of shinanigans your clients will come up with to injure themselves, and IF they DO, and IF they get 'nasty' about it, you could be liable for 100's of times more $$ than the 2-600 per years.!! When I was a Massage Therapist, there was a national group for us and we could get a million dollars of coverage for practically nothing. Look for that sort of 'group' or National Association of ?? Belly Dancers, Dance Instructors, etc.; check out their 'benefits' and see if they offer a groupo coverage.. then .. Join it and GET it! Best wishes on making your dreams come true!
Mary Ellyn · 6/19/2011
I want to point this out again...read the fine print on group coverage policies. Most of them offer a general aggregate which means you share everyone's policy. If they have a claim your lifetime or annual limit is affected. If their claims make premiums go up, your premiums go up.
Dancing Paws · 6/19/2011
I don't think I was being quoted on any group coverage. Who is "everyone?" Everyone being covered by the insurance company? Everyone in the studio?
Mary Ellyn · 6/19/2011
Everyone can mean everyone in the studio or everyone covered under the plan. You just need to clarify that with any group policy. I am not familiar with the Dance Teachers Insurance company but it should be clarified if this is how their's or other group policies work. Another concern would be if you read the "fine print" on the "Details" page...at the bottom under exclusions I would question coverage under pole dancing when they won't cover things like gymnastics? Also they do not insure you if you sell or distribute athletic equipment. My policy specifically covers us if someone purchases a pole from us and attempts to sue us if they are injured using that pole. This policy may in fact cover all aspects of pole dancing without a problem..I'm just saying make certain you cover all the right questions when you interview an insurance company.
Dancing Paws · 6/19/2011
I just emailed them about those concerns and one other. I was told that professional liability typically covers sexual molestation, but it is listed under the exclusions, which I find odd. I also did not understand the exclusion about services provided by the member not being covered. Wth does that mean?
Dancing Paws · 6/19/2011
Empyrean - what insurance company do you use?
Mary Ellyn · 6/19/2011
Our company is West Bend Mutual but they may be limited in the states they cover. We went through a broker who has been able to find insurance for several people we've referred him to out of state and he now knows what sort of policy and coverage to look for. Anyone who is interested you can message me and he is also listed under resources on http://www.MidwestPoleDancing.com Some he has been able to help find coverage and some he has not but it's definitely worth a try as everyone we've referred to him has been happy.
Midwestpoledancing.comMidwestpoledancing.comBicara Bukti, Bukan Sensasi.
pegasusaerialfitness · 6/20/2011
Out in Cali...If people want to sue you they can, and having any type of corp; Ie.S-Corp, C-corp, or LLC doesn't always protect you I've been told by my legal professional. Getting the best insurance you can will help protect you the most. If you go legalzoom.com they are a great resource to get some basic fees for incorporating your business. It would cost me 1500.00 to have my lawyer do the paper work for me to form a corp out here. If you do it yourself it is cheaper. I would double check the "registering" a corp, might not be the same as forming a corp. LLC's out in Cali are Limited Liability Corp. You usually have partners if you do that one. If it is only you, you might look into S-"type" Corp. I think a C-Corp would be to much of paper- work and time for a small business at first. I'm sure you will figure it out what is right for you with all the great info you have gotten from the forum..and others of course. Congrats! on your new business! Women in small business..Love it!

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