Help please - Can't progress to next level

Hazi411 started this discussion · 2/22/2013

Hi all, I need sone advice from you lovely people. I have been at the same level (Intermediate 3) at my pole studio for about a year. There are one or two moves from Int 1 and Int 2 which I am still struggling with. I can't move up to the next level until I've mastered one of the Int 2 moves (upside down V/helicopter/chopper *up*the pole). Should I (a) go back down to In1 or Int 2, (b) persevere with Int 3, (c) give the next level up a try anyway, (d) have a private lesson or two, and practice like crazy (e) give up at my current studio - or any other options I haven't thought of. Giving up completely isn't an option! TIA

38 replies

RanPolaHolic · 2/22/2013
I would focus on core strengthening and exercises specifically for these moves for a couple of months because I believe that what you need is to become stronger. Inverted V and aerial inverts need core strength and maybe you should work on this. To proceed to next level wouldn;t be a good idea from my point of view because you will face more challenges and you may get more disappointed.
chemgoddess1 · 2/22/2013
Have you had the same instructor for the entire time? Do you have another studio where you can take lessons? Do you have a pole at home? Veena lessons? Sometimes just going to s different studio of being in front of another instructor can make a move "click". Aerial inverts are NOT easy and unless you have perfected a grounded invert there is no way you are going to be able to get it aerially. If you use any sort of momentum to invert then you really need to step back and focus on that. Every studio has a difference of what they consider levels, but if aerial work is required for you to move on then I would not consider essentially wasting my money going into a level that you know you will not be able to do. Furthermore, if you try to do these moves without the proper foundation the chance of injuring yourself is high. So what is more important to you, saying that you are at a certian level or having proper form?
emotioncatcher · 2/22/2013
I had a student struggling with this trick as well, she is more the flexy girl and doesn´t have much strength. She got it during a Strength Class at my studio. We were doing chopper repetitions on the floor (shoulders are on the ground and bum in the air once you are in the floor chopper then you slowly lower back down and repeat it a few times) Afterwards she just gave it another try in the air and got it :) I think for her it was just getting the mechanics of the trick, but you could also get the strength with this exercise if you train it
Hazi411 · 2/22/2013
Have had several different instructors (not as bad as it sounds - the studio runs an Int 3 class (sometimes more than one) per day, and there are 5 instructors who teach at that level. There are other studios around, although my current one is the most convenient. I have decided to enrol at another studio for a term, to learn some different things, as I think that will help. I think it's partly a case of feeling that I've been at this level for a long time without making a lot of progress, although that's probably just my perception. I just seem to be repeating, repeating, repeating the same stuff over and over again. Definitely don't want to injure myself (been there, done that a couple of times at the current studio but I hope I've learned from those mistakes!) I do have a pole at home, and am trying to practice when I can - mostly just trying to build strength, rather than practicing moves, as such. I plan to subscribe to Veena's lessons again once I have my "pole room" properly set up...it's a work in progress at the moment. Hopefully I will get it set up in the next couple of weeks or so. (I work full time and am currently experiencing a bout of depression which causes me to sleep for about 9 hours or more a night, which of course cuts into my "spare" time.) I have heaps of moves and transitions I want to try out too....I recently attended the first West Australian Pole Camp, and learned heaps from all the different instructors there. My current studio teaches a limited range of moves, compared to what's "out there" (they teach mostly the "pretty" moves, and at least 25-50% of each lesson is taken up with learning a routine over the 8 week term - which is good for learning transitions, and for building up stamina, of course).
megan12 · 2/22/2013
Here's my opinion, which may not be popular, but I think you should advance to the next level. Here's why- because you'll start to learn new moves and build strength, thereby helping you to achieve the move you're stuck on. Just because you can't get one move shouldn't mean you shouldn't push yourself to learn others. I'll admit that my aerial inverts are very weak. I rarely do them and it's something I'm working on. A lot of it has to do with your body type, I think. I have a very heavy lower body (i.e.- a big booty, wide hips, muscular legs). So it's more difficult to fight against gravity and pull your own weight upside down. Anyways...even though I can't do an aerial invert well, I didn't let it stop me. I can Ayesha, Straight Edge, Chopsticks, Cartwheel Mount, Shoulder Mount, Extended Butterfly. Don't stop conditioning. But I think if you stay where you are, you're not progressing. Pole dancing isn't a linear sport, in my opinion. Good luck and keep at it, you can do anything you put your mind to! :)
amy · 2/22/2013
How many times a week do you take class? is it an option to do more then 1x if you don't already? I see a huge jump in progress/strength with all students when thye start coming just 2x a week.
Ly Kieu Le · 2/23/2013
What's your flexibility level? In order to progress in strength, you must progress in flexibility as well. It all comes down to balance. If you're strong but have no or little flexibility, you won't be able to progress much further. Its like a bottle with a hole in it. No matter how much water you pour into the bottle, you can only fill up to the hole. For me, I have a pole private once every two weeks with my instructor because i need someone to spot me and correct my form all the time while I'm doing new tricks, then I'll bring it home and practice two more times/week so that my muscles won't forget how to do it. Besides that, I have private strength training and stretching with my other trainer. After the first two weeks, I've already seen progress in poling. Good luck :)
BeccaH · 2/23/2013
It is really true that yo progress in pole dancing its good to move to the next level. Its fine to not be great at a more advanced level at first because most of the time with pole you are introducing muscles to a new way of moving. Work on the moves you cannot do. Do some handstands against your pole. Its a great way for you to get comfortable upside down, and doing leg work in that position as well. For what its worth
BeccaH · 2/23/2013
The best way to get good at chopper or inverting is to do knee tucks. Builds the core and when you do 8 on each side each day. In general less than 2 weeks youll be golden
Hazi411 · 2/24/2013
Thanks megan12, that's what I would normally do if it's only one move I'm stuck on. However, I've got the stage where I still need to work on one move from each of the lower levels, which is why I'm wondering what's my best course of action. There are some moves - twisted grip shoulder mount, iguana mount, and one which Bobbi's calls "The Candy" which are introduced at the lower levels but are continued through several levels. I haven't yet got the shoulder mount, the iguana is a bit hit and miss, and the candy I haven't yet got, although I am getting closer! The Candy is one where you are hanging on with one arm, whilst holding your legs up in a v, with the hand that' snot on the pole, holding your outside leg. BeccaH - I have been trying to practice knee tucks whenever I can. I also make a point of coming down from the chopper slowly, and in controlled way, as I've heard that doing that also helps to build up the muscles. I love being upside down. The fear of handstands is more to do with thinking my arms won't support me ;-) Ly Kieu Le - my flexibility is pretty good. I am not far from the front splits on either side, but have quite a way to go with my center split. My back and shoulder flexibility still needs a lot of work though. I was interested to hear that you have a private every 2 weeks. I am just about to start flexibility training again in earnest, as my favourite flex instructor is back from maternity leave, so that should help with that area. amy - I'm having 2 lessons a week, with a bit of practice whenever I can (which isn't often , as I've been battling chronic tiredness for some time). I'm about to cut that down to one lesson a week at my current studio, and one lesson with a different studio, to give myself some different moves to work on, so will see how that goes for the next couple of months. Thanks everyone!
chipandchar · 2/24/2013
It's kinda funny. I got my moves wayyyy out of order. I could do a shoulder mount but not an advanced plank (and barely a regular one)... I guess ideally you should get moves in order and gradually build up, but it just didn't work that way for me. Just accepting where I was at that moment was the best thing I could do. But I do find that if I'm stuck, mastering my left side moves (I'm normally right handed) somehow helped along with extra strength training. Because when you doubt your strength level, challenging moves seem more daunting, and you can half-try to do inverts and moves that normally challenge you. You literally have to put your all into them. Very controlled and focused. Figure out WHY you aren't nailing these moves. Do you lose focus? Confused about technique? Fear? Lack of strength? Then go from there. I swear a good attitude and strength works wonders for me when I'm dancing. When I'm annoyed and frustrated or tired, and it becomes a hassle, I might as well stop. I never get it. When I'm happy and energetic, I master moves that would normally take weeks. It's crazy. Just stay optimistic, you'll get it.
megan12 · 2/24/2013
Iguana mount and twisted grip shoulder mount in intermediate levels? Yikes. Now, do you have to igauna mount from the floor or from a layback? Doing it from a layback might make you feel more comfortable in that position. I personally, at the current time, cannot do twisted grip and I know there are many pole instructors that do not teach that grip. It can cause stress fractures in the forearm and serious shoulder injuries. I use a cup grip but some others really like Veena grip to shoulder mount. Shoulder mounting is freaking hard. Aerial Amy has a really good tutorial on it. You might want to check it out. In terms of "Candy" which I've known of as Teddy, start from the ground. Make sure that pole is tight in your armpit and grab your inner thigh. Don't grab out too far or else the pole won't be tight enough in your armpit. Also, make sure your hips are pushed to one side of the pole, the side that you're armpit it holding, so you can grip with your lower back. Good luck! :)
chemgoddess1 · 2/24/2013
She does not mean twisted grip handspring. The TG shoulder mount is the SM that Felix uses (and pretty much every Aussie that comes out of Bobbie's).
Hazi411 · 2/25/2013
Excuse me chemgoddess1 - "she"? ;-) ) (sorry, but where I come from, referring to someone as "she" can be viewed as being offensive, but rest assured I am not offended, just mildly amused!) First off, I have to say I got a couple of the names of the moves wrong. I always get the two confused. "The Candy" is what Bobbi's studios call the shoulder mount thingy. The grip they use is called "knot grip". I will try to describe it: with the pole on your right side, put your right arm up then kind of twist it so that the back of your hand is facing your body, then bring your left arm up and place your hand below your right, in a cup grip, with the back of your hand facing the inside of your right arm) The "Celia" is the one which is like a Teddy - except it's not the Teddy, because you have your right arm *up* on the pole so you're basically holding on with your right arm, both legs in a V shape (but higher than in the Teddy), and your *left* arm is the one that holds on to your leg. Hope that makes sense. The iguana mount (Bobbi's studios call that one "The Darryl Hannah"!) we do from the floor. I have seen it done from a layback, and I can do that one, so I know I have the strength to hold myself up there. The reason I struggle with the iguana is because sometimes I can't get my feet (or foot) up onto the pole when doing it from the floor. It doesn't help that the poles are spinny ones! chipandchar - yes I'm a bit the same. Some of the more "advanced" moves I can do, but I struggle with some of the "easier" moves. Often it's just a simple "tweak" that's required. Thanks so much for what you wrote about figuring out *why* I'm struggling with some moves - that's made me realise that part of why I struggle with the shoulder mount is the fear of "what do I do when I get up there?" (although I haven't yet managed to get my foot/feet up close enough to the pole anyways!). Other than that, it's probably a combination of all the things you mentioned, plus probably over-thinking some things, and also trying to remember everything for the various moves (engage shoulders/pull abs in/tuck pelvis under ....oh and don't forget to breathe correctly either!) Most times, I can do the chopper from the ground (unless I'm tired), but doing it from *up* the pole is a whole other story. The one time I *did* manage to do it, was because the instructor said it's the same as doing it from the ground, except your feet are off the ground, so I gave it a go with my feet *just* off the ground, and managed to "get" it, but haven't been able to do it again. I think maybe I will try a private with one of the instructors I haven't had at this level, and see how I go with that. In the meantime, I will keep at it - I'm not giving up!! Thanks so much for all your help everyone. I love this forum, everyone is so supportive and helpful xx
Veena · 2/25/2013
Hi Hazi441, if your worried about what to do once you are up on the pole from a shoulder mount I suggest working on it from the ground first (not from standing) but low on the pole. You start in a seated position raise the hips and get into position from there. Keep in mind however, you don't do it from sitting, that's pretty difficult but you do start in a seated position. This helps remove some of the fear of "what do I do when I get up there" Here is a lesson on it if you're interested. https://www.studioveena.com/lessons/view/4d6bac4d-8044-4fa9-9aaa-66300ac37250 ; I'm curious what is it about the term she that is offensive? No one has ever mentioned that before. 🌸
Hazi411 · 2/26/2013
Thanks heaps SV :-) the studio teaches the shoulder mount from the floor too, but I will definitely take a look at your lesson as well, and I will practice some more from the ground. Its probably also the fact that when I do mansge to do the SM from standing, I think I might be so shocked that I might forget to hold on!! Re the term "she", it must be a cultural thing - one of those things that's perfectly OK in one country, but may be considered rude in another (like cursing, or nudity, for example. ) I was brought up in England and as children we were always told off for referring to someone as "she" instead of using their name, but as I said, I wasn't offended, but some people might be. Hope this clarifies the situation :-)
Veena · 2/26/2013
That's so interesting! "She" is just a pronoun here in the US. I find things like this come up in the chat room and because we're a global site I'm always learning something new!! 😀
portableninja · 2/26/2013
That is interesting! I never knew about that quirk of British English (and I'm kind of a language nerd.) In Japan it can be considered offensive to refer to someone as "you" unless the context of the statement requires it. It's more polite to avoid using the pronoun or a person's name at all, if you can. And other languages have different forms of pronouns depending on how familiar you are with a person (like tu/usted in Spanish and du/Sie in German). I've heard that Americans have a reputation for being informal. Maybe because it's not something we usually even distinguish in our own language. :)
chemgoddess1 · 2/26/2013
I learned something new today, too. Pronouns are quite commonplace in our language. I never knew they were offensive in other languages.
PrincessPeach · 2/26/2013
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080128160635AAhdtXJ
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Dwiizie · 2/26/2013
My parents and grandparents are all American born. My father always said this about referring to people as "she". He said it was as rude as pointing. I never had ANYONE else ever have a problem with it. My dad is in the wrong country lol. He is of German heritage.... Interesting.
chemgoddess1 · 2/26/2013
This was how I was taught to use the word: Used to refer to the woman or girl previously mentioned or implied. In writing you would not customarily write "Mary will be at the gate at 4 pm to pick you up. I know you have never met Mary before, but Mary will be wearing a long purple coat and carrying a bouquet of roses. I have instructed Mary to take you directly to your hotel." Just out of curiosity, how would that little blurb above be written instead?
Dancing Paws · 2/26/2013
So this is my theory. If you can safely execute most of the moves in the level, and only one or two moves are "holding you back," you should still be able to safely move to the next level. Not every move is for everyone. The next level should have moves that you can learn fairly easily, and in learning the new moves it can help build your strength to get the moves you cannot right now, and help with motivation. If you move on and find it's not working, you can always go back to the lower level.
aliceBheartless · 2/26/2013
I believe that using "she" instead of a proper name is considered rude in some languages, particularly in the presence of the referenced "she". Especially when "she" is not a familiar. Like someone mentioned above, using the familiar du vs the formal Sie in German. I suppose theoretically on a forum, we're all present, all the time. Afterall, she is the cat's mother. I agree with checking out the next level, or taking the same level again with a totally different teacher. Often, we just need to hear things another way when i'ts an issue of mechanics. Seems like you feel a need for some change, because its no fun to be stagnant. I also think that sometimes stepping back from something that has challenged us to frustration is a good thing. We work on something else, gain strength, and come back to it later. Some moves just take a really long time to get. But while working on them, it helps to be learning some other moves/tricks/spins just to keep the mind fresh and satisfied. :)
Juicy J · 2/27/2013
Hazi411, I have also trained at Bobbi's for several terms and was in the exact same situation as you and got up to Int 3 and got stuck trying to do the Aerial Spinning Chopper! I repeated that level probably about 3 x terms straight and because I wasn't training and conditioning my body enough to invert into a V from the ground consistently and gracefully, I started to feel bored and stagnant. After a while, I felt very defeated to see other girls in the level do well and hearing instructors place a lot of emphasis on this move, I decided it was time to move onto another studio and learn other moves. I only decided this after reading a lot of forum threads on this site and educated myself like everyone else said, that pole-dancing isn't a linear sport and you shouldn't let one or a few moves stop you from learning other moves. I felt empowered going to my original home studio again after being absent for a year training at Bobbi's. I have learnt other moves and whilst I still can't invert into a V consistently and gracefully, I put it down to lack of discipline to train myself for this and for this, I have only myself to blame. I think it comes down to how badly do you want to master this move/s? If it's a priority then always make time to condition your body and train for it. Although like everyone else has said, don't let this stop you from enjoying the art of pole!!! 🙂

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