Deadlift Elbow Stand Help

PaulettePoles started this discussion · 10/15/2011

Got a question! Ive done yoga for years and lots of headstands... I can deadlift my legs no prob up and down in a headstand, but when I try in an elbow stand, I cant! (or pencil) Ive been working really hard at it the last couple weeks and all that has happenned is I am now really good at it in headstand. What could I possibly be doing wrong, and does it make sense that I should be able to do it or is the muscle placement so different that it requires different strength? Thanks for any help / tips/ responses! :)

66 replies

emotioncatcher · 10/15/2011
without a pole or wall i think the headstand is easier to balance (at least for me^^) did you try it against something? the most important thing is to place your feet close to your head, straighten them and lean over until your hips are over your shoulder. then you legs should lift nearly automatically ^^ if you use a pole, you should keep some distance, so that you can lean over enough
PlatinumAni · 10/15/2011
I replied on my video but wanted to add that watching it back, the best ones my hips were really over my shoulders.
amy · 10/15/2011
In a headstand, you are actively pushing away from the ground with your hands and arms. In a forearm stand, you may be forgetting to do that?
PaulettePoles · 10/15/2011
Thanks for the tips! I will try them tomorrow and let you know how it goes.. :)
Tine007 · 10/15/2011
I'm not sure it is anatomically possible to deadlift and elbow stand (unless you're contortionist, maybe?). Even the most advanced yogis I've seen and who can deadlift a headstand and handstand in the middle of the room always go into forearm stand one leg leading, even if it happens super slow and controlled. My teacher explained in an inversions workshop that forearm stand is actually harder to get into than a handstand (even one leg at a time) because it is much more difficult to bring your heart forward through your arms due to the position of your shoulders. This however is what enables you to bring your hips over your shoulders, which makes lifting sooooo much easier :) I can dead lift into headstands, handstand w. back against the pole and Iguana mount, but for forearm stand it feels like my shoulders won't allow to hips over my shoulders enough. For the iguana, try bringing your head closer to the ground, that helps getting the hips over the shoulders and you don't have to lift as high :)
emotioncatcher · 10/16/2011
@ tine: against a pole or wall it´s definitly possible. you can lean your hips enough over so that your feet can´t do anything else but lift =) i have a tutorial on it where you could see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeYQnDsKBLQ
mizvix · 10/16/2011
It is possible - i'm not a particularly gymnasticy person but have been working for months on being able to deadlift into a straddle elbowstand. i always do it away from poles and walls to ensure that i'm not using them for support (but my core is strong and i'm confident that i won't overbalance). i started by lifting one leg, then the other and then holding different leg shapes and straddling down slowly. i focus on is keeping my arms, shoulders and tum engaged and pull my legs up from my tum. one of my friends keeps her elbows wide to keep her more stable, as close to a 'tripod' headsand as she can get with elbows down.
amy · 10/16/2011
I always tell students to set up their forearms a little bit in front of the pole, not with your hands wrapped around the base. If you wrap it is much more difficult (or anatomically impossible!) to stack your weight properly with a rounded back. I did this Tuesday tips that goes into way more detail, hope it helps! http://aerialamy.com/blog/2011/08/09/tuesday-tips-forearm-stands/
Veena · 10/16/2011
You don't have to be a gymnast to deadlift from an elbowstand, I can do it with straight legs or v legs. Your balance points are different in the headstand than the elbow! Headstand you can lift up even if your weight is a bit forward the forearm however you have to have your butt/hips over your head/shoulders you also have to place the elbows right and the shoulders must be engaged, hamstring and shoulder flexibility is needed and triceps and core strength will help you control the move. I go over all of this in the lesson..... Elbowstands like handstands and forearmstands take time!!!!! Don't expect to master this in a few tries!
Veena · 10/16/2011
Oh I should also add you will not be able to hold or be close to the base of the pole/wall if your deadlifting with straight legs, because the hips have to move way beyond the shoulders :)
PaulettePoles · 10/17/2011
Hopefully TODAY I will be able to go try out your tips! Going to watch your video now @emotioncatcher and then off to your blog @amy, @veena- I am so dumb! I have your lessons and havnet watched this one. My daughter has been in the hospital- which is 2 cities away from my home, I have 2 other kids and my hubby is out of towm so I have had 0 time to pole or anything this last week. Today is a new day!
Veena · 10/17/2011
Oh lol well good luck. Hope you find the lesson helpful!
Krista Bocko · 10/17/2011
Paulette--well, I can do elbowstands finally after a LOT of practice, but handstands I can't do yet. Interesting how some things come easier than others. GL!!! Now today I tried the straddle into a backbend, can the experts on here critique?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5G2VB74ijg&feature=channel_video_title
emotioncatcher · 10/17/2011
@sparrow: looks very pretty! i like that you lie down on your back instead of lifting your feet back, never seen this on a pole before like this =)
ajpole · 10/17/2011
@Sparrow - try cusping your hands around the bottom of the pole and then resting on your forearms...this will put you closer to the pole and can create some really nice lines and shapes with the backbends and leg variations
amy · 10/17/2011
hm, something looks sort of funky. are your elbows aligned under your shoulders? it looks liek they're spread very far apart-- if they're further then shoulders-distance apart, then your weight isn't trasnferring correctly down through your shoulders, upper arms, and into the ground. you may find it easier to actively press into the ground with your fingers interlaced, rather than palms facing down. i would recommend setting up a little closer to the pole, so you don't "fall" into it, and try to really balance your weight in the straddle and hold it after you pull your hips all the way up-- really engage through the core and find that balance, and work the negative (bring the straddle back down) as well =) as you get more comfy, try them further away from the wall/pole and balance without touching the pole at all- and then go freestanding in the middle of the room =)) great job! huge progress, good for you!!!
Veena · 10/17/2011
I agree with amy on all of the points she talked about. If you go back to the lesson you'll see a close look at arm placement and my suggestions for the hands as well. Having your hands flat with fingers spread will give you a nice base. 😉
Tine007 · 10/17/2011
Sparrow, I love your variation going into a backbend!!! Looks very pretty! I'm gonna try :) Your elbows look very far apart as Amy already mentioned, but I also noticed that your palms are facing down. Maybe try clasping your hands (still in front of the pole) and press down through the pinky side. That also helps keeping the elbows in :) I think I'm having different definitions of 'elbow stand' and 'deadlift' than the rest of you folks because I'm used to yoga nomenclature and I noticed the same terms mean different things sometimes. Let me explain what I meant with some pictures: If the head touches the floor (even though most of the weight should be on the forearms), it is a headstand. this is what emotioncatcher ans Amy talk about. Deadlifting no problem. Like amy mentioned, I never cup my hands around the pole, I lift freestanding and then find the pole with my butt. http://yoga-a-porter.comhttps://pub-a085b59791bc4c1a94b0a223a67a37d6.r2.dev/wp-uploads/headstand2.jpg Forearm or elbow stand, Pincha Mayurasana, you are standing on the forearms, but the head is off the floor at all times, even when going up. This one I can't deadlift with both legs at the same time because my shoulders are not open enough to bring my hips over my shoulders. Haven't seen anyone deadlift this one at all. I've seen people lift into headstand and then lift the head off the floor though like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVjXtq2cMPc (she's also deadlifting a handstand at the end). Lifting controlled leading with one leg is no problem. http://img08.shop-pro.jp/PA01034/578/etc/rachel_forearm_stand.jpg Handstand, obviously, you are on your hands, and I can almost deadlift w. both legs with the back against the pole, still need a little push from my toes. Hopefully, one day I'll deadlift in the middle of the room :) http://images.marthastewart.com/images/content/pub/body_and_soul/2010Q2//mbd105582_0410_handstand2a_xl.jpg Deadlift, to me, means lifting both legs off the floor at the same time without pushing off. Not leading with one leg and following with the other,like lifting from a standing split (as Natasha Wang does it so beautifully), no matter how slow. Not hopping the feet off the floor either. If anyone can lift with both legs into Pincha Mayurasa, I'd love to see a video because I'd like to learn, if it's possible :)
amy · 10/17/2011
tine-- i call this http://www.jennchiarelli.com/photos/photo03.jpg a yoga headstand, and the first picture that you have below, a forearm headstand or elbow headstand or just a forearm or elbow stand. the second picture i call a handbalancing forearm stand. i agree with your terminology but most polers i teach aren't familiar with yoga, contortion, handbalancing-- or anything other than pole, really-- (and neither was I, or most of my early teachers!)... and so it's easier to call the forearm headstand by the shorter (lazier) forearm stand instead.
amy · 10/17/2011
and yes, i consider a deadlift to be both legs off the floor at the same time, and i'd also add that i don't think its a deadlift if you are relying on improper positioning of the hands/head/elbows to use weight shift alone to get your feet up, rather than compeltely pressing up with core-- what i mean by that is when people set up very far from the wall/pole and let their hips drop back and arch their back, then pull teir legs up, instead of stacking weight over their hands, and pulling their legs up with a rounded back.
Krista Bocko · 10/17/2011
ooh, did i invent a variation?! LOLOL thanks for all the tips! hmm. need to work on this more. I guess i have so many thoughts in my head as far as where to place hands and the placement of the hands (ie-flat or lace fingers) that I don't know what's best for me. So, more practice!
PaulettePoles · 10/18/2011
Well, I tried last night and still couldnt do it but it was closer! Now that I understand I will keep working on it and hopefully post a video soon. I will keep at the headstand variation as it makes me feel better to be able to deadlift my legs there! lol This has been very imformative- thanks all TONS! Cant wait till I can post that I have it!
emotioncatcher · 10/18/2011
just a last little tipp for the right elbow distance: i place my elbows on the ground and grab my left elbow with the right hand and the right elbow with the left hand. then i let my elbows on that distance and place my hands in the prefered position (around pole or flat)
Veena · 10/18/2011
I'm making you all a video that will hopefully help you see the difference between a headstand, elbowstand, forearmstand, and handstand. Then I need to get back to work on hooping lessons! 😉
Tine007 · 10/18/2011
That would be great, Veena!!! 🥂 Too many names and variations... Amy, thank you for explaining, it makes sense :) I just keep forgetting and was writing my first comment with the wrong pose in mind... We call your yoga headstand tripod or headstand 2 (there's at least 7 different ones in yoga to make it even more confusing...) I totally agree on lifting from the core vs. dragging the feet up by sticking the butt out. I was taught the deadlift by just lifting the toes into a tuck (knees to chest) and then un-curl up from there, to make sure you use core and stay hollow :) Straddle and pike lift came only after A LOT of practice doing the tuck.

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