Cultural Appropriation?

DanteD started this discussion · 10/29/2015

The badkitty article about cultural appropriation in pole routines has me thinking. I need to be incognito to perform (work), and have been toying with using sugar skulls (aka calaveras de azúcar) makeup. It's the Dia de los Muertos colorful skull face makeup. I've been toying with exploring the ideas of death, life, and loss in a piece, but don't want people to get offended. What do you think? Is it ok or offensive?

33 replies

DanteD · 10/29/2015
Here's the article: http://www.badkitty.com/news/cultural-appropriation-in-pole/
poleisnewtome · 10/29/2015
People have always appropriated from different cultures throughout time. It is part of living in a melting pot society. Whenever someone does anything, there is always a chance someone will get offended. Unless you are doing something with the express purpose of disparaging another culture, I say go ahead and do what you want.
Veena · 10/29/2015
People can let themselves be offended by anything. I think it's all in the intention of the person, don't over think it.
poleisnewtome · 10/29/2015
@Phoenix It is impossible to know who is going to be offended by something and who is not. There are people who might be offended by a tribal costume and there are people who will appreciate that you are representing their culture in an artistic way. It is impossible to know. If you know what your intentions are then hopefully others will see that.
Phoenix Hunter · 10/30/2015
Very well said poleisnewtome and catmoves. I very much agree with all that you said. I do believe there is a big difference between wearing a caricature costume and telling a genuine heartfelt story and I hope others would be able to see and feel that' as well
Veena · 10/30/2015
You guys are awesome! xoxo
sarab813 · 10/30/2015
I'm so glad this thread was started. I can't stop thinking about that article. I used to dance American Tribal Style bellydance. We would paint our faces with tribal symbols when we performed. We would do this with respect as well as zaghareet (supportive sound) but after reading the article I felt bad. I love all the replies to this topic!
DanteD · 10/30/2015
Thanks for all of the responses! As for tribal costumes, Buzzed had an interesting video in which Native Americans tried on the standard Native American Halloween costumes and reacted to them: http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrislam/i-am-not-your-costume. Their main concern was with authenticity (since the costumes were way off from the reality and used Native American elements merely for aesthetics) and the misuse of sacred and/or content-laden elements. In particular, headdresses - from what I understand - are both sacred and denote warrior rank, and wearing one is akin to dressing up as a member of the U.S. armed forces with a fake Purple Heart on your lapel (which could seriously irritate a real military person). Also, the beadwork is supposed to carry specific meaning, which the costumes may not reflect, and the lack of accuracy conveys a complete disregard for trying to understand and value the culture - it may be like if someone dressed up as the Pope and wore a papal hat with the McDonalds logo on it (or wore a cross necklace but with Mickey Mouse on the crucifix). There was also a concern about being portrayed as savages, while Native Americans had a large number and type of societies.
BuzzFeedNative Americans Tried On “Indian” Costumes And Things Got Uncomfortable“I feel like I need a really big shower after wearing this crap.”
Phoenix Hunter · 10/30/2015
That is definitely not what I had in mind for a tribal inspired dance. No beadwork, headdress or anything like that. In fact I don't think anything I had in mind could even be pinned down to one tribe or culture. I'm thinking more like , faux hawk hairstyle, some makeup, and a costume with some feathers accents. Don't even know if you could call that tribal or jungle or madmax. I would feel like an asshole wearing a headress and beadwork. I'm thinking more of a natural style that I'm going for not village people. Haha!
Tamarinda · 10/31/2015
Omg, that article is so stupid. Please dress as whatever you want for Halloween or a routine and don't overthink it. DanteD what you described is absolutely not offensive and I hope you have fun and enjoy yourself.
MeganJoan · 11/2/2015
The entire point of the Bad Kitty article was that your intentions actually DON'T matter and that if the people groups that you're dressing up as find it offensive then don't dress up as them. It's really that simple. I personally find it completely not okay that there is a thread on here with a bunch of people NOT of the people groups being discussed assuring each other that as long as they don't mean harm then it's all okay. No, you should not use sugar skulls for your piece, as there are many other ways to symbolise death. No, you should not dress up in tribal inspired dress unless you are a part of an actual tribe. There is no reason, however, that you cannot use tribal themed music, wear brown clothing, and explore the music as you dance. If you know that you are going to offend the people groups that hold these concepts dear to their heart, and you know that it's just sprucing up a performance that really doesn't need it, then why are you choosing to abuse your place in society by knowingly offending people anyway? If you're searching for loopholes as long anything that's not an outright caricature is an issue then you're being part of the problem. Yes, people have always appropriated different cultures throughout time. Appropriated is a BAD word. That's not a good thing. And it hasn't been just people, it's been white people. Which is why it's especially grating that this thread is a group of white people reassuring each other that continued appropriation can be justified. It can't be. Re-read the article. It's not a personal attack on you, but if you read it and then still find a way to justify that it's all okay based on your intentions then we have a problem. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. You can go ahead and tell yourselves that people are just too sensitive and will "find a way" to be offended by anything. But being offended isn't a great way to feel. Majority of people don't go through life looking for ways to experience deeply negative emotions. So maybe it's time to stop blaming being hurt and offended on those who we are hurting and offending. Maybe it's time that we instead stopped doing the things that hurt and offend them.
poleisnewtome · 11/2/2015
MeganJoan, I respectfully do not agree. How does one know what will offend someone? It would be unfair to lump all people of a certain race or culture together and assume they will be offended by something. I would not presume to think that all Mexicans would be offended by a day of the dead costume, just as I would not presume to think that my black colleague would be angry if I wore an African print. I think catmoves makes a good point about when she talks about the kimono and the Leg Avenue geisha costume. Intention does matter as does the type of attire/prop/artifact used. It is a sad world if people, particularly white people, since let's be honest, this is who we are talking about, cannot explore and appreciate other cultures in fear that they will be misunderstood or accused of racism. A world where the races cannot adopt from each other and pay homage to each other's many cultural gifts. THAT, to me, is racist.
MeganJoan · 11/2/2015
It's pretty simple to know what will offend people, actually. You listen to them. If you choose to ignore the large amount of articles, blog posts, and other ways of speaking out from people of culture groups where they specifically say that white people appropriating specific elements of their culture is not okay then you're part of the problem. Define racism however you like. Put whatever spin on it you want to help you sleep better. Respectfully disagree as you see fit, but that doesn't make you right, and it doesn't stop you perpetuating the actual racism that you're pretending isn't racism. Not replying to you again. This while thread is gross.
poleisnewtome · 11/2/2015
Apparently you find it difficult discussing something with someone who doesn't share your opinion without getting extremely riled. Clearly, my comment has offended you to the point that you chose to make semi-personal attacks while really knowing nothing about me and what I read or what I know from my own experience. Have a good night and keep pole dancing!
DanteD · 11/2/2015
I'd like to say thanks again to everyone for the responses - it's been an interesting read. This response is long, but I've spent a lot of time looking into this. With respect to sugar skulls and after performing my own independent research, Mexicans generally think that the use of sugar skulls by persons outside of the Mexican and Mexican diaspora cultures can be problematic, but is not necessarily so. (I can't really say people of other races because Mexican/Latino is not a race.) I put the question out there because I thought this forum would be helpful and it's useful to know whether audience members would believe that they should be offended on behalf of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans (even if those people themselves may appreciate the use of the motif). Generally speaking, as described further below, Mexicans are proud of their culture and happy to see others appreciate and honor it (but they don't want it to be bastardized or treated as decoration). On an official level, Mexico supports other cultures taking steps to appreciate Dia de los Muertos. In fact, the official Mexican tourism agency is currently running a contest to see who has the best sugar skull makeup for Dia de los Muertos, which provides strong support for the notion that it is not offensive to every Mexican person. Further, in 2013, the Mexican government held a Dia de los Muertos celebration for Parisians because it felt it had a duty to disseminate its culture beyond its borders (thankfully I can read Spanish). On an unofficial level, the Mexicans and Mexican-Americans who have decided to write on this issue want people to understand that sugar skulls are part of a larger culture, and that the context should be understood (which is that Dia de los Muertos is meant to be a happy occasion for people to create altars with offerings to their deceased loved ones and to visit their graves, and that sugar skulls are either candies you place on the altars or face makeup for more important events). There is a bit of a White Savior complex if we think we know better than Mexicans with respect to whether they think their culture is being improperly appropriated - per the official acts, it seems that the country of Mexico thinks that it's a good thing for people of other cultures to take part in Dia de los Muertos. Mexico is a very diverse country of over 100 million people (Dia de los Muertos does not have the same level of importance across the country), and the Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the United States are diverse as well. Apparently, sugar skulls are similar to Jack-o-Laterns in the United States, although the context is different since sugar skulls are meant - in the tradition of the original 1910-1913 La Calavera Catrina by José Guadalupe Posada - to represent how death comes for us all but we should still live. You can also write the name of a deceased loved one on the skull to honor a particular person. With that context, the sugar skulls carry an incredible and beautiful meaning, and one that is much more specific that just death. I'll have to decide if that meaning is something that inspires me enough to carry me through the 3-6 month process of creating a piece, or if I'll go in another direction (although it's not like there are a ton of ideas out there for face makeup that'll render you incognito).
Webmaster · 11/2/2015
I have to say that the term appropriation is a very loaded term and was used by the article's author purely for its emotional impact. The term is sensational and irresponsible from a journalistic perspective. If we take that stance that we should never try to emulate or adopt another culture we take the stance that humanity should not seek to understand anyone else and we further the separations between ourselves and others. Cultural adoption and emulation has gone on throughout the history of mankind. It is one of the primary ways cultures evolve, change improve and find solidarity in one another. We find understanding by emulating others in life and in art. Much emulation in art or life comes from a perspective of honor and desire to understand. When someone dances to cultural music in their understanding of the cultural dress they have found something beautiful about it and are simply trying understand a culture in the way that they explore the world. We can then choose to accept that gift in the spirit in which it was intended or we can be offended. If someone chooses to be offended, that is on them and not the person who was trying to understand or honor them. This argument breaks down in the face of caricature and that is where we need to apply some critical thinking. Is someone making a statement through their caricature? Perhaps they do not understand the implications of their costume choice? Someone who chooses a sexy Native American costume for their halloween party probably doesn't understand the implications of their choice while someone who chooses an unflattering representation of Obama or Trump most likely full understands what they are doing and is making a statement. I will leave it to you to choose how to deal with intentional and unintentional caricature. In the end we need to seek to understand each other, not just the cultures we emulate but the ones emulating us. Being offended just gets in the way of open dialog and better relationships between everyone.
Phoenix Hunter · 11/2/2015
my dad is Apache and my moms family is German Jew- but I'm just white.... i think both sides of my family have faced lots of cultural adversity throughout history so it makes me sad to hear that I am just a white person who is part of the problem.
demi5e2991 · 11/2/2015
I feel compelled to say something here because, um, I'm a 1st generation Mexican American...and while I can't speak for all Mexican or Latin American people, I can definitely say that Calaveras have great significance, but one of the main reasons to use the face painting is to welcome all those crossing over from the other side on Dia de los Muertos. After all, you don't wear sweatpants to a wedding, and when your dead relatives come to visit you don't want them to feel weird when they're having pan de dulche with the family--we'll all be joining them one day, so it's only polite for us to cast aside our earthly bodies so we can enjoy the time together. Would I be offended to see (for example) Japanese people having a great time in full makeup at a Marigold Parade? Absolutely not. I'd gladly offer ANYONE (Native American, African American, space alien, etc.)to share my empanadas, neopolitinos, and tamales. Would I be bugged if the meaning of a celebration near and dear to me were used to conceal identity and act as a narrative for loss? Maybe. Try to remember, you're basically using imagery from Mexican Memorial Day. We deal with loss, um, differently though so it's a little silly, colourful, and definitely full of food and fun. But at it's root, we're welcoming our loved ones to visit us so we can defy death through love and then carry on as we part ways again. We tend to their graves and tell their stories to keep them close. I think preserving those ideals is key to using the imagery without being offensive. I try to remember that there's a lot of culturally relevant imagery that often gets used for purposes other than those originally intended and we've all been party to it without meaning to be offensive. I've been to a luau dressed as a hula girl thinking it was super cute then later realized hula is a very disciplined art of storytelling through dance. I've dressed as a geisha at Halloween because it was just so damned pretty then read about how those women devote everything to their art as early as age 9. I think education is a huge part of avoiding any major faux pas and if you really don't know what it's like to live in or grow up in a particular culture, try hard not to use it's imagery or repurpose it's meaning for those who do. At least that's my two cents. And sincerely, today is Todos Santos and tomorrow is Dia de los Muertos so this consideration is a lovely time to see if there are some celebrations anywhere near you and take part in them so you can decide whether or not it feels right for you to represent them on stage. Additionally, I don't know a thing about you. Maybe you have some Hispanic heritage or have been in a place where this is a good identity for you. My husband is Norwegian but he's been in the southwest so long he makes better flan than my aunt. :) Anything is possible and I really think you've done a lovely thing in considering that it might be offensive at all. Good luck, thank you for entertaining my rant, and I hope you can find a suitable solution to balance your pole dancing and professional life ;)
demi5e2991 · 11/2/2015
Phoenix Hunter, Mexicans are white people. We are considered Caucasian as a race and Hispanic by ethnicity. So you and I are just like sisters and you can buy all the sugar skull masks you want! ;P
Phoenix Hunter · 11/2/2015
Hehe! thank you Demi! I think its just funny to assume anything about peoples culture or ethnicity just by the way they look. I think there is so much more to people than how they look on the outside. No one looks at me and would think that my dad is Apache- he looks VERY different from me. People just assume Im "white" and like you mentioned- white includes many things. My boyfriend is 2nd generation Mexican American and his family have always been so open and welcoming when it comes to the holidays. This openness and warm heartedness is what I think of when I think of the Mexican people as a culture. I have so much reverence and respect for that. I live near the border and love that I have exposure to so much culture. :)
Phoenix Hunter · 11/2/2015
Demi, I also love your idea of actually attending local festivities. My significant other is hosting a family event for Dia de los Muertos at his theatre he works at. There will be a lady painting faces and I might actually get her to paint mine too! :)
Stefana of Light · 11/2/2015
I just wanted to say I have a sugar skull tattooed on my chest and I do believe intention is everything. I have had this tattoo for 9 years and I have never had anyone tell me they thought it was disrespectful. It has merely been art. That's what we re here to do.. make art. All kinds of it:) It's beauty, it tells a story about a chapter of my life. Just like a costume, expression. My intention is never to hurt my fellow brothers and sisters. Intentions can be felt by people who are able to be connected and can feel things from there heart and not judge strictly from the mind. We are born to love, not hate, that's something we learn through life. Be You !! We will never make everyone around us pleased after all. we are here to overflow our joy into the world. Intentions are everything. They mold our daily life. Have a beautiful day SV!
demi5e2991 · 11/2/2015
Phoenix Hunter, funny. I have blue eyes, medium skin, and sandy blonde hair and anytime I go to visit family in Oaxaca, Mexico there's always a funny story or five I come back with. When I'm here I get aggravated in social situations where I know people look at me and my married last name and start asking about ludafisk and Vikings. It happens all over. Some of it is amusing, insulting, annoying, awkward, but all of it is life and I just try hard to remember I've been guilty of the same. Sometimes being wrong is a great tool for growth and learning-everyone needs humbling on some level. Besides, for all I know there's a Norseman somewhere in the woodpile--plenty of Spainards have beautiful red hair ;) Just sayin'. I wouldn't have been surprised a bit if you had Hispanic roots too. I had honestly wondered since you're exotic looking and in San Diego. I'm encouraged to hear you've had such wonderful experiences with your proximity to Tiajuana and through your beau's family. I think welcoming and community play huge parts in our upbringing, and again, that's not everyone everywhere, but it is no surprise to hear that the Mexican government is encouraging people to do Calavera makeup, etc. We are the people who say, "Mi casa es su casa," so sharing is certainly in our nature. I truly, truly hope I've conveyed the warmth, respect, and acceptance I believe are at the heart of my culture, and this is a great time to take part in a celebration that is hugely important and can only display it's quirks and eccentricities to participants. Knowing this holiday is about a lot more than death and remembrance (recuerdo)--it's about transcending (and sometimes playfully mocking) the void between life and death through love. I hope down to the marrow of my bones that EVERYONE can experience that authentically. It's beautiful and comforting. Okay, enough of my passionate Latin prattle. I have to go to mass, buy marigolds, and make offrendas--my relatives will be here this evening. Amor Para Siempre (Love Forever), mi compadres. I wish everyone a great visit with their dearly departed this Dia de los Muertos.
KuriKat · 11/2/2015
I'm very wary of appropriation myself. It's especially risky if you don't know much about the cultural tradition you are "borrowing" from. For example, a lot of white people wear First Nations' headdresses at music festivals and it's generally considered very offensive. This is because those headdresses aren't just "decoration"; they signify status. It's similar to wearing a Memorial Cross (or a Medal of Honor for Americans) when you didn't actually do the things that would normally earn you the right to wear that insignia. Veterans would be quite rightly upset if someone who wasn't ever in combat started 'appropriating' their honours and symbols of valour, and that's exactly what we do when we put on headdresses and other FN paraphernalia as costuming. So, before borrowing a tradition from another culture, ask yourself: Do I really understand how this is used in the original culture? What does it mean? Am I perpetuating a stereotype about this nation or ethnicity? Does the symbolism still make sense in my work, or am I just using it because it's more "exotic" or "unusual" to my eyes that something from my own cultural traditions? Am I acknowledging and giving appropriate credit to other artists in the source culture? (If you don't credit it, you're kind of plagiarizing in your art.) I don't think you can get to a simple "do or don't" answer, but if you can't answer those questions or the answers and reflection makes the choice less comfortable, then you should probably choose something different.
DanteD · 11/2/2015
Thanks Demi5e2991 for sharing that - it's interesting to learn about how other cultures view death and deceased loved ones. The Buddhist culture I was raised with doesn't have any of this (ancestor worship doesn't exist in our denomination and there are denominationally specific concerns about the priesthood taking advantage of lay persons) - it's just not something we focus on. We may have someone tell a remembrance (or do a performance - we love performances haha) at a meeting and/or incorporate prayers for them in our daily practice. For us, the deceased doesn't come back to the old life, but moves forward to the next one (allowing them to continue improving their karma).

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