Critisism versus Support

Runemist34 started this discussion · 5/2/2011

Hey all, I've read very often around here that we have a very Supportive pole community, and I completely agree. We do. It's wonderful to get on the forum and see so many people saying so many wonderful things to others, telling them to "keep going!" when they feel down, and giving tips from a huge variety of experiences. However, I have to ask...how are we to deal with critisism, or talk about the things we DON'T like about others? We're all people, and it's bound to happen! I noticed that many of us didn't feel that the dance done by Jag6ed was to our liking, and that there was some contention and stress on the subject. I ask because I find this happens a lot, particularly in this kind of field, and in Burlesque. I did a show, and everyone told me "You did great!" and then walked away. I was happy...but I wanted more. I felt like I had critisism blue balls! I wanted to know WHAT was great, and WHY, because I wanted to improve! I only got one piece of negative feedback, and while it was quite hard to swallow at the time, it allows me to look at my overall dance and think "Hmm, how could I make this impression better?" So, what do you guys think? How would you approach being supportive, and providing constructive critisism to others? Do you think we should even go there? How do you account for personal taste, or things intangible, such as "You didn't look very 'into' that dance."? Thanks!

8 replies

Jenn PoleLush · 5/2/2011
I know what you mean...Frist off, I LOVE this community for the support it offers. We all know how women can be and to have a predominantly (I know there are men!) women it is fantastic to find such a group of women with a like-minded goal. Not everything that everyone does *can* be great, really ---I know Iwhat I do CERTAINLY is not great so I think constructive critisism has its place. This is a shout out to Charley but what I love about when I have attended some of her specialty classes (cuz I'm not an actual 'student') is that everyone does an impromtu performance at the end...which, that alone helps to build confidence--but at the end everyone has to say what they loved about it and one thing that could be improved--and I have taken those things to heart and I try very hard to hear those "critiques" when I am dancing alone at home (or dream poling, where, btw, I am AWESOME!) So absolutely, it can only help ones performance in the end 🙂
Charley · 5/2/2011
I think that constructive criticism needs to happen in a safe place - not at the end of a performance or the middle of a practice/class and needs to be well thought out. I don't think public forums are the best places for it simply because for example if Is aid critique my video for all of time the *negative* things written would be there for all the world to see which can be embarassing. I believe to constructively critisize someone you need to open a door for conversation which can only be done in a safe place. My class that does use constructive criticism is designed for serious/experience dancers and dancers looking to further their own journey. The class isn't their to necessarily give homework as much as it is in place to promote experimentation and creativity...not every experiment will work and its a safe place to try everything you've ever wanted to try and be, and explore different sides of you and above all FEEL these different women inside of you. Part of me wishes I could get more constructive criticism because I criticisize everything I do and getting fresh eyes and opinions would be great but I am not sure I would liek that on a public venue. I do on occasional send videos to people I trust and respect for insight.
Serzi · 5/2/2011
I tend to observe and take in a lot when I watch videos. I make it a point to comment as thoroughly and as often as possible because I know how much it helps me progress when others do the same. I try not to criticize or offer advice to any shortcoming unless the uploader says it themselves and is specifically asking for help on how to improve on something. It's extremely important to me to not make a negative comment on anyone's performance or videos, but to offer my own brand of constructive criticism when it is requested. There have been instances where I have blurted things out as harmless as "That was great! It'll be even more incredible when you perfect that move!" and I've actually offended a fellow poler because she thought it looked spot-on. Then it was like "Oops, I suppose I shouldn't have said anything especially when I can't even do that move yet." even though I meant well with my previous comment and wasn't trying to upset her. One should always proceed with caution when offering anything but absolute support and positivity. I think that's why most people avoid criticism altogether, constructive or non. However, when someone seriously does ask for advice I have no problem giving them a detailed report on my observations. I'm a visual junkie; I LOVE to watch pole videos and share my over-analytical findings in the hopes that it may give the artist that extra something they couldn't quite put their finger on by watching it themselves. Even if it's a move I can't physically do yet, my mind is like an encyclopedia of pole information I've absorbed and of favorite videos to offer as visual reference. There's nothing quite so rewarding to me as finding a use for my attention to detail and hearing somebody say "Hey, you were totally right! I tried what you (said or sent for me to watch) and I got it!". So, basically, if you ever want to use me as a consultant please feel free to ask. Be specific if there's something you feel you're having difficulty with so I know it's okay to offer my opinion or send links to other videos. It's not to compare yourself to, but to inspire and derive alternatives into and out of moves that may not have come to mind otherwise. ;) *~Serzi
Kobajo84 · 5/2/2011
I really like Charley's idea of post performance feedback. I think I'm actually going to incorporate this into a homework assignment for my advanced students this week. ;) I don't comment often any more on videos because I can't stand not being able to "unfollow" videos like you can unfollow forum topics. I too will only offer criticisms when asked. I know how hard it can be to want to offer your expertise but not everyone wants to hear it/read it so it's best left unsaid unless asked for. 😉 I always say it's better said in person because over the internet things can be taken out of context and tone/quality can't be taken into consideration and often times words can be offensive instead of helpful.
Runemist34 · 5/3/2011
Hey ladies, I was thinking about it and reading your comments, and I can totally understand the idea of critisism being embarrassing...though I don't know that I agree. In University, all of my writing classes are critique-heavy, and all of the critiques are public. Either in groups, or the whole class, we all share our thoughts on others' stories, and receive the same. It really helps to find some of the common themes for problems if you're getting the same comment again and again, or see if you should take something with a grain of salt. Personally, I don't know if I would trust a lot of the comments I got during class...because a lot of them had no idea what they were talking about, or were not critiques at all. I do agree that I would rather people not critisize me directly after a performance, though I would have liked to hear a little more about what, specifically, people liked about my Burlesque dance, rather than leaving me feel like they were just being nice, and I actually sucked. I suppose it's always up to the individual, but I had wondered about it, anyways. The fear that we have such a "supportive" community makes me wonder if we're just going to be scared of stepping on other's toes, and we have to be PC all the time...
Spinner · 5/3/2011
Honestly, criticism is a tricky thing. The reaction that one can get might range from either - appreciate if you give constructive feedback, or feel embarrassed when they receive one, or some might even feel hurt and offended. Those in the hurt & offended category might be those who thought they had done a superb job and did not expect getting criticism (regardless constructive or non-constructive). That being said, I usually would give feedback (of course constructive one!) to people I know very well and close with. Because you know what might be their reaction, how well they receive your comments/feedback and their appreciation for it. And for strangers or people that I'm not too close with, I would rather give feedback and advice if the person is asking for it. At least you know the person is prepared to receive it and it does not come out as a shock to him or her.
Charley · 5/3/2011
I feel if someone hasn't asked for feedback then feedback shouldn't be given. The pole community has to be PC, pole dancing is intimate and personal and needs to be handled with care and kindness. It takes a lot of courage to put a video up of yourself dacning around a pole - that's a huge thing for most of us, most of us aren't trained dancers and gymnasts - we're afraid everyone will think we suck. It's important to nurture the creativity. Also part of my class that uses criticism is also in place so students can learn to criticisze themselves PROPERLY. Like "I suck" is not an appropriate response to watching yourself back - learn to look for things that can be improved but also learn to look at the things that were great - learn to more of the great, polish the not so great things. I'd hate to see the pole community go the way of musicians forums - where everyone is so hung up on themselves that think everyone else sucks, that they cannont appreciate a different style, they can't find something to say about someone's work because it's not what they would typically listen too. I think we should be afraid of stepping on each other's toes...it keeps us respectful of others. I know that some people can take it, I count myself as one of them, but I'd be really put off if someone I didn't know posted a critique of my video - I'd feel picked on.
pegasusaerialfitness · 5/3/2011
If you can only say "that look bad" then you shouldn't say anything. I always try to use phrases like "this and that were great....now you are ready to take it to the next level and "point your toes," take less steps or whatever it is that could polish the performance. Or i like to say "a more advanced version of that move that I think you are ready for is...blah blah blah.. then explain what you mean. Most often we don't know we are doing something not quite right, and also you have to make it realtive to that individual.