Certification is Important
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LPFBelle ·
So why do you think Felix and the pro's now have certs when they didn't before? Maybe to make our sport legitimate, an hold some standards, and show that yes experience and training mean you have skill in pole, safety, the body, etc. if they didn't feel nesseccary, then why bother???
I don't think they had them before because there weren't any certs out there. I think certs are awesome, I have one myself, but I also wouldn't use them as the final benchmark in whether a teacher is 'qualified' or not.
For the same reason they carry insurance when they did not before. Many carry them because they are sponsors/spokesmodels of the products (FlyGym, XPole, etc). This went from asking about would you take a class from someone who does not have a cert to getting upset at those that do not share your point of view. Sparrow has been in this game quite a long time, too. I think some of us that have been around prior to these certifications even existing don't pay too much attention to them. I mean, who certified Fawnia before she made up her program? Who certified KT Coates? Who certified Sheila Kelley? We are putting importance on a certification that was created out of thin air based on EXPERIENCE.
Good Point, but the question is, How important is it to you? If you are a trail blazer and paid your dues when there was no such thing,or if you are at an amazing studio that doesn't have it then it doesn't. For people like my mother that is all about certificates (Ballet Dancer), it does. I just hope that they at least have First Aid and CPR at least.
We are a young industry and there are a TREMENDOUS number of certs out there right now. These certs all share one commonality, PROFIT. People pay the certifier for their stamp of approval. Generally people take that certification and use it to make money since they are now CERTIFIED and therefore appear to have some level of expertise. There are even studios who guarantee you a job if you take their very expensive certification course. Profit is why everyone has one or offers one. This, of course, doesn't make certifications bad. Certifications can be a very effective way to initially measure an instructor. If they come from a certification agent that you trust. We have some very good certifications in our industry and we have some very, very bad ones too. Because our industry is young, and everyone is still trying to find their place in it, there is far more value in researching the instructor or studio you are planning on using than any sticker on the door can ever tell you.
Can u recommend any good certification websites? I would like to b certified but idk who is legit and who isn't. I have found certs that cost $400 per phase with 4-6 phases!! That's a lot of money!! Plus i am in sac and there doesn't seem to b anything here. Thx webmaster :)
Polewalker916 I'm sorry I can't make any recomendation but I bet if you started a new discussion post explaining your requirements you would get some great recomendations.
Polewalker: look at my post a few above. It lists cert programs that are PFA approved. As for profit, I have opposing views on this. ONe, I think some of the people have gotten into it for profitable reasons. But then I know there are others that have been sought after to "teach me what you know". These are people who have spent hundreds if not thousands on their own education. Are they not entitled to a fair value of their worth? Most of us would not bat at eye to pay $100+ for a 60 or 90 minute workshop but when it comes to someone spending hours and days with you, training you we freak over even $500. If I could justify the cost I would take a few for my own education, because I do see that there is a whole aspect that is not and cannot be learned in a general class.
I will add that I would not do it to prove that I am worthy of teaching. I would do it for the same reason I take classes at as many studios as I can.....I am a knowledge junkie. Heavens knows what I would do if I ever hit the lottery. To take classes without caring what grade you got!
I am a knowledge junkie too! I love learning and HATE studying. For me, I will be taking a pole cert course because it counts as CEU's for the ACE GFI cert. That's my only real reason. I don't think certs are necesarry in individual things, necessarily. I taught bellydance without a cert! As long as you know proper form, proper teaching for different groups, how to adjust moves to make them easier or harder, etc, you should be capable enough to teach. You should also be taking classes from others, to expand your knowledge.
Just putting in my 2 sense........ I believe in the pole industry there is no such thing as a true certification course... actually except maybe 1. Pole "certifications" are considered continueing education for other nationally recognized fitness associations. To be a nationally recognized fitness certification you have to pay 1000s of $ to a third party entity for grading and such.... you have to show proof of cpr/aed and first aid... and you have to completely continueing education every so many years With that said.... I do believe that if you want to be the best instructor possible you should want to take a instructor course just as you would jump on the chance to take a workshop or private with a pro And also just because someone is a pro and started pole dancing before the rest of us and are awesome dancers. Doesn't actually mean they are a great instructors. As an example there are pros teaching ballistic stretching for flexibility training when the research shows that ballistic stretching is actually detrimental. This research has been out for 20+ years. the pro pioneers had to learn things by trial and error.. they hurt themselves figuring out what did and didn't work........... its the same idea when you don't want your kids to make the same mistakes you did... this is why they are now taking pole courses and working to develop courses And good legitimate "certifications" do not come out of thin air. There are developed over long periods of timeand lots of research and then submitted to agencies like ace and afaa who then study it to make sure it is teaching proper fitness procedures. With all that said I do not believe certifications are a be all and end all. Experience is obviously important. Whether that's years of pole dancing.. personal training.. or college degrees I think it comes down to what's been said... research!! Research your instructors and studios............... however most people starting out do not know anything about pole let alone what makes a good or bad instructor and studio
I honestly got my xpert certification just to be safe. I am self taught at home and never grew learning from another teacher. It was nice to see if I was doing things right while explaining. And spotting. I am not yet teaching and I prob will never own my own studio. I just will fill in for a friend at hers when she is not available since thats all i really want to do. I dont mind if i dont teach at all. I just like that I have some good tips. =) Plus it was really fun so lol.
I developed a teacher training program called Discoveries Dance. It is a 16 hour training approved by ACE, AFAA, PFA & PDC. I wrote it on my summer break in 2010 and I have continually added to it and improved over time with the help of constant reseach and the review/input of three Physical Therapists, a chiropractor, an orthopedic surgeon, a PHd level forearm injury specialist and even Amber Richards who is pursuing her doctoral degree in Physical Therapy. I keep the cost of my training low, in fact I think it's the lowest available, since most pole teachers are young and just starting out and I think the information I provide will help drive the acceptance of pole dance as a safe, growing and popular form of physical exercise. The money I have made goes either back into my company or to charity (animal rescue, cancer, addictions treatment, etc). I have a full-time job in Education that pays my bills, so I do this on the side because I love pole and the pole community. I strongly feel a pole teacher needs to know anatomy, expecially of the rotator cuff and scapular stabilizer, in addition to the prime movers of the body and it is absolutely essential that she/he knows how to keep a student safe. I think they need to know exercise science, CPR, First Aid, management skills and of course teaching skills. I have never had anyone take my program and tell me that they already knew the information I provide. I am hoping that this knowledge spreads its way out into the community and we can all be better for it. I have worked with many teachers who are already teaching safe classes and I have worked with some who were doing some dangerous things. In order to take my training in the first place, people must have solid beginner and intermediate skills, a solid invert without kicking up, and some advanced moves. They can not in fact pass the post-training testing (which I estimate takes at least 8 hours) unless they can execute advanced movements. I also strongly feel that those who teach pole should have either a group fitness or personal training certification. These nationally accredited programs are the real deal and the knowledge they provide is invaluable. I am proud of my training and what it has to offer, but I expect that an interested student reseach all programs to see if what they want from a training matches what the certification provides.
ANGEL!!!! So good to see you posting!
Thx for posting that angel!! It looks to be very informative. I would want to do it just to learn all that stuff for myself. Thx again for the info!!
Lots to chew over here. There are a lot of the pros who are now certified and have been for year. I'm pretty certain even Jenyne took Fawnia's Pole Fitness cert when she taught at her studio. "Certification" is a process by which someone is tested to assure that they meet certain standards which are acheived through training, practice and experience. It's a test of their level of expertise. Some people believe that a third-party must approve a certification program in order for it to truly be a "certification". This is not true. However, there are many things to consider when researching a certification program. The ETED program is approved by AFAA but I know that they do not have any pole experts, and neither does ACE, who go over the programs they approve. They are verifying that it meets certain criteria for CEUs ....not as an expertise in pole dance training. Other organizations like the PFA and the PDC evaluate programs for their pole expertise and accuracy. However, a certification program can be great without passing these standards. A teacher can be great without taking certification. Also some people can pass the certifications and go on to be irresponsible teachers...there is only so much the programs can guarantee once they walk out the door after they are finished. Some certification programs however do not guarantee expertise - they are more "training" programs much like continuing education or just a way to further your knowledge as you would by taking any workshop. There are many things to consider when looking for a good instructor....do they continue to educate themselves, learn and practice? have they taken ongoing courses? Do they have experience taking workshops regularly as well as even multiple certifications to further their own experience? Then, meet with them and get a feel for what they are like in the class room. A lot of people can pass a certification and still be a poor teacher. Not to mention you can't just take the "certification" listed after their name as proof of quality since some are really poor programs. As for profit...I make a lot more teaching classes than I do on certifications. I put about 22 hours into each person I certify...that's around $50 an hour, not to mention continuing support after they are certified. Everything I do it for some profit as I'm not a philanthropist but I offer certification, like Angel does, because I care about the pole community and want to share with others so that we have good instructors out there!
RikkiL ·
Mary Ellyn is spot on, on every observation she made.
I think everyone has their valid points, however I do not believe that a certification makes someone a better teacher then someone uncertified. First off, who do you think creates all these certifications? Pole dancers with a lot of experience! And who certified them? No one, because they invented it. Unless of course they did personal training certs. While I've heard that many certifications have had wonderful impacts on pole professionals, which is great, I think nothing beats well rounded experience. And just because someone can hang a shingle and own a studio doesn't make them a great teacher either. Almost every studio I have worked at has taught students wrong technique like jumping into inverts (!!!!) which I've had to go back and correct. Some studios leave out crucial strength building moves and even choreography and dance moves, and just jump from trick to trick with no prepping for those more advance tricks. I taught at one studio that never taught students a basic crucifix, but went from invert, to CAR, to Superman....I was baffled on how this syllabus worked! I think nothing beats experience and someone who has been in the industry for a long time. I did competitive gymnastics and dance since I was 3, and took gymnastics spotting classes when i helped coach the younger girls. I was primarily self taught pole, but when I got my first teaching offer I spent months developing a syllabus that worked and made sense. I did research on every level I had access for (loooong before certs even existed). I took every workshop available, and still do when I can afford it. I've been poling for 8 years now, and teaching for 5. I've even compared my syllabus and methods right along side with some of the certification books, and am proud to see that I teach correctly! I did a LOT of research into it and came up with something great, and am very proud of it. I think it also helps when an instructor is passionate about what they do and it shows, I get so excited when a student succeeds! Safety first is something that should be looked at when looking at a potential instructor. Are students rushing into more advance moves too fast? Or are they taking the time to develop in to strong and confident dancers, and find their own style? If I could afford to take a certification course, I'm not saying that I wouldn't because we can always be learning and I love to learn the most I possible can. Also in the aerial industry, most coaches do not have certifications. My aerial coach is a comprehensive teacher and performer, and excellent at it. I'm in training with her to become an aerial teacher also. It takes time and experience, so if you are looking into those area's for a qualified instructor, here is a great article: http://www.laurawitwer.com/2011/08/04/choose-an-awesome-aerial-coach-instead-of-a-sucky-one/ Just my 2 cents, not saying everyone has to agree
Laura Witwer, SassyPants Aerial Arts Choose an Awesome Aerial Coach Instead of a *Questionable* OneHow do you find a great aerial teacher? Nowadays, anyone can take a few classes, hang out their shingle, and call themselves an instructor; so how do you tell the difference between an awesome aeri…Incidentally...I was certified before I developed a certification. Certification is not the be all and end all. It doesn't guarantee a good or a bad instructor. Neither does a ton of experience nor personal trainer/group fitness certification. Even a strong dance back ground doesn't guarantee you'd be a good pole dancer or pole dance instructor. A good pole dance instructor is a huge variety of things that come together in a person the right way...everything aligns correctly to make a good instructor. The link Alicia posted is very interesting though I strongly disagree with the first statement which makes no sense. You don't have to be able to perform to know how to teach well.: "If no one is willing to pay your instructor to perform (sorry, gotta be candid here), chances are they’re not that good. Your instructor should have “been around the block” in the biz, and have several years of paid professional work under their belt."
Yea Mary Ellen I agree with that too, I've taken workshops from great performers that weren't as good at teaching and left me dissapointed. I guess what we can learn is that there no specific pinpointed list of things that can guarantee that someone is a great instructor, except to do your own research and come to your own conclusion.
Here's my two cents as a teacher and a student: - The certification is only as good as the training. If you want to research a teacher's credentials, find out what they had to do for their certification, don't just go on the certification alone. Likewise, if a teacher has no certification, find out what kind of training they've had, if any. You're essentially looking for the same things: safety training, knowledge of anatomy and physiology, possibly CPR training, etc. As other posters have said, this training may come from a non-pole background, like yoga or general fitness. What matters is that they have it. - It's been said several times in this thread that there are no certifications for aerials instructors. This is and is not true. There are no certifying bodies that I know of, but what do exist are diplomas from circus schools, some of which are very selective and offer extensive training, including teacher training. If you're not sure about your aerial teacher's credentials, look into where they did their training. Some of these schools even offer a three year bachelor's degree, or specific degrees in teaching aerials. Every aerial instructor I currently study under has graduated from at least a one year full-time training program that included information and training on safety, anatomy, and physiology. I would not be trusting my life to these people, if they didn't. - Speaking as a PhD teaching fellow, I also know that all the training in creation doesn't necessarily make a good teacher. Adequate training, whether certified or not, is pretty much a requirement for a good teacher, but it does not make a good teacher. A good teacher often has that X factor which amounts to a combination of skills like being able to put yourself in your students' shoes, having an overall vision for the class and its goals, being able to listen and respond to students' concerns (and adjust your teaching material accordingly, often on the fly), knowing how to neither talk down to people nor talk over their heads, and on and on. Pole offers extra challenges like being motivating without being annoying, being able to accurately guage someone's fitness level, and so on. These qualities should come across in an interview, but they may not be apparent on paper, or by what certifications a person has. That's just my opinion.
Charley ·
When all of this started it was exotic dancers teaching other exotic dancers - that's very different from how it is today. The women I first noticed were KT Coates, Alena Downs and Pantera - by the time I knew who they were they had been showgirls for a very long time. The need for structure wasn't as necessary because dancers were working in small groups. If you weren't strong enough to do something, you weren't strong enough to do it - there wasn't all of this breaking things down and getting detailed. Today in Pole studios instructors are faced with students of all ages, fitness/health and backgrounds. I think it's very important to know what you're doing! Does that mean a POLE certification? Yes, IF YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH EXPERIENCE TEACHING FITNESS OR DANCING. Can someone with gymnastics or dance qualifications teach pole dancing effectively and safely? YES. IF they understand the apparatus. Can a personal trainer teach great pole? Yes. IF they have the knowledge about HOW to pole dance. Although there are many (fitness professionals before pole dancers) out there who raped great pole instructors for their knowledge and now pass it off as their own. I've known personal trainers teaching pole before and to be honest - some of them don't know squat about pole dance or how to break down moves, know how to effectively teach students move or even have a clue about what moves students should be learning and when. So, IF a personal trainer with little to no pole training wants to teach pole - should they be able to teach just because she's a personal trainer? NO. Should someone who has pole danced for 10 years in a club be able to teach because she's taught some other exotic dancers a fe w tricks? NO! Why? First of all the PT - just because you can lead a group fitness class or motivated people and guide them to lift weights and exercise does not translate into you know how to pole dance or how to teach complex things that require coordinationg your body to spin, lift and invert. Spinning, lifting and inverting are special skills that take time to develop and must be taught properly in the beginning to save injury. So you really had better KNOW the basics and what to look for when others are performing the things you are giving them to do...the best ans quickest way to learn this? POLE specefic training. Now, our dancer who's been dancing for 10 years in a club...she might be an awesome performer but that doesn't mean she has the patience to deal with slow learners or that she knows the major muscles groups and basic health/fitness knowledge which is important when training OTHER bodies. Much less may she have the scope of moves out there and the proper = safe progression of moves. Does ANY kind of certification = great trainers? NO. There are a ton of personal trainers, pilates instructors, yoga instructors and what have you teachers out there that suck and most of them have a certification. There are a ton of fitness and dance instructors that are out there are great instructors without certification - but you know what it tells me if you don't have some kind of qualification (and there are MANY to choose from I don't care if you're degree is in fitness, certified PT, dance major, etc. etc. etc.)that maybe you don't know as much as someone else who IS certified in SOMETHING and that I am not sure I want to trust my body to you. Teaching yourself is different than teaching others. I have had a very long journey from a self taught dancer to becoming an instructor. I had never taken a pole class when I taught my own and you know what....that was extremely scary and only because of a long list of circumstances did I end up teaching...but the main thing I did was I sat down with a personal trainer and showed her all of my moves and we picked each others brain until I came up with a syllabus that would be simple and effective...and to be honest - that syllabus SUCKED. The way I taught SUCKED. It took a long time to become a good instructor. By the time I got certified I had been tried by fire and when I read the manuals all I could think was why didn't I do this sooner? Why couldn't I have seen the value in this a year ago? I have no idea just how good I could be NOW, had I spent the money sooner and taken a certification course. Certification was easy for me because by then I had learned so much in my own research and time and hours spent - that time would have been better spent with a book in front of me with all the information. Did I end up being a pretty good teacher before my certification? YES...but it wasn't without a lot of work and research. Did I have anyway to prove to anyone at face value that I was a good teacher? NO. Does having a certification help aleviate my new students fears? Yes. So to me, it was so worth it. As pole grows so do the standards. I think whether you have been trained by a studio to teach right and proper, a pole dancing certification, other related certifications - I think those types of training and important to ensure proper instruction. I do believe that our standards need to be higher if we want to expand - and this is coming from someone who has learned from youtube, spent time with amazing instructors with NO credentials, spent time with amazing instructors WITH credentials and spent time training lousy instructors WITH credentials. We're not just teaching someone how to do a trick for their next set anymore. It's more, the moves are bigger now, more dangerous so I think we should take a moment to ponder what we'd like to see this turn into. Even arts like ballet, tap and jazz have programs to train teachers....doing and teaching are 2 different things... I am one of the few who wishes this was more standard and wishes we could rid of unsafe instructors who want to teach pole dance "because it's the only fitness class you can charge that much for" That is a real quote btw. Don't you hope that's not your instructor? I'd also like to add that Veena is one of the few, I mean few, PT's I have ever come in contact with who UNDERSTANDS pole dancing, studies it and breaks it down clearly. I also understand the HOURS put into lessons and development on this site to bring the BEST, SAFEST breakdown and progression of moves available. Everyone else, should be asking questions of their instructors. So does everyone need to be certified? No, maybe not. There exists a small cross section of trainers who do not need pole specific training...how do you know if you are one of them? That's why I continue teacher training and certifying.
Charley ·
The above is a repost from Nov 2010 from myself on the topic with a few updates. Sorry for the strong opinions.
litlbit ·
I am not cetified, I am a retired nurse that has worked in numereous fileds, including OT, PT, Ortho Neuro, sports medicine/injury...etc. I studied Veena's method extensively, and teach her method of pole because it is as Charley stated, it's safe, concise, thourough, and easy to understand! I explain to my students the points of contact, the muscles involved/worked in a particular move or hold. They don't learn spins in the 1st level. I need to make sure we have done enough stregthening and conditioning for their body to perform safely the moves that could injure the rotator cuff muscle etc. I have had NO INJURIES or FALLS in the 2 years my studio has been open. I don't take allot of stock in certifications as yet, simply because they are not consistant with the basic fundamentals, and people are charging what I believe are outrageous amounts in mant cases for them. I'm not saying you shouldn't get one, what I'm saying is that whether the instructor is certified or not...be an informed consumer....DO YOUR HOMEWORK and ASK QUESTIONS!! In my experience so far with say PT, the ones I found to be knowledgable and proven (at least in my area are NOT certified), were more than qualified to work with clients. There is NO requirement for anyone as yet to my knowledge that they have to be certified to teach anything in the fitness area. Oh, I still subscribe to Veena's lessons for updates and continued education for myself and my staff. She has performed and done workshops at my studio since I opened...I also recieved David C. Owens stamp of approval. Happy poling!!!
Charley ·
Lilbit - you hit the nail on the head. I think it's less the discussion about certifying as we've all pointed out there are instructors certified in many arts that suck but customer advocacy. I find this to be frustrating. How can we educate people before they start on the right questions to ask? I really wish I knew the answer to this. What I think is the worst deficit of bad instructors in anything is that the customer will never experience how amazing something can be because they quit.
