Can we talk about twisted grip again?

Rachel Osborne started this discussion · 3/27/2016

I have faithfully avoided twisted grip for years because I believe it is dangerous for my body. I have hypermobile shoulders and wrists. I am stronger now but not the same strength everywhere: core, biceps and legs are much stronger than my triceps, shoulders and upper back, for example. I can do yoga arm balances and can deadlift aerial choppers and hold split grip on spin pole for over a minute so I think I am strong enough to do TG moves. I just have not thought it safe to even try... But now... I am actually starting to feel like a weirdo because nobody else seems to have the slightest concern about TG. Everywhere I see polers treating TG handspring as a natural progression from butterfly and leg hangs and other intermediate tricks. I rarely attend a studio now but the teacher I trained with for years doesn't seem to have any concerns and teaches it as an upright and inverted grip/hold/spin. I would welcome feedback, latest learnings and current state of play on this matter, from dancers and dance teachers. Thank you 💜🙏💜

27 replies

Phoenix Hunter · 3/27/2016
I recently tried twisted grip handspring with a spotter and it felt fine. I only did it a few times and left it at that. I think that I'm strong enough to control my landing and maybe that helps and I'm also a little bit flexible. I vowed to not do twisted grip either. Im only learning it because I need it for a routine I'm doing in a showcase. It probably won't be something I will continue to do afterwards. However I would not be learning it right now if I felt my body wasn't ok with it. I would flat out refuse to do it if so. But I feel comfortable in it and I think my flexibility and strength allows it to be ok. I feel that working on my tg Ayesha also helped me to get my shoulder mount and also my split grip ayesha( first time today!) but maybe it's all coincidence and my body is just getting stronger for those other things? Or maybe the confidence of doing a tg handspring allowed me to finally do my shoulder mount and split grip Ayesha? But no, logic tells me to not do it . So after the show I will probably hang it up. Also, now that I can do split grip Ayesha I feel like I don't need twisted grip Ayesha. Also, I was confident in my elbow grip Ayesha before attempting twisted grip Ayesha. So I would definitely have some other form of Ayesha before learning twisted grip. Or just avoid twisted grip all together if you can. That's my humble and honest opinion. Especially if you have shoulder hyper flexibility.
michaelaarghh · 3/27/2016
I don't do twisted grip handspring, because my shoulders aren't flexible enough to control that dynamic strength needed for the handspring. However, I am fine with coming down the pole into twisted grip ayesha from an inside leg hang, and I'm fine with twisted grip shoulder mount (and twisted grip butterfly). Just do what's right for your body. If that means avoiding tg then that's fine. If everyone else is doing twisted grip handspring, then just stick to normal grip or cup grip handspring. I've found it's pretty unlikely that there's a move where you NEED to have TG handspring to move into a different move, and if there is, there's almost always another way to get into it.
dustbunny · 3/28/2016
Start slow. Try lowering from Inverted Crucifix and try the "dead lift hang" I don't know if it has an actual name but it would be the starting position for a TG lift; upright position, facing away from pole chest and face up. Try both sides only a few times per side and then back off on TG for a couple days and listen to your body. Rinse and repeat. You are body aware enough to know if it's working for you or not. And post your tries! I can't wait to see.☺
Rachel Osborne · 3/28/2016
Thanks so much for the detailed thoughtful feedback in your posts guys. Really appreciate it. Congrats Phoenix on your awesome recent achievements😀 . I haven't tried any sort of handspringing at all, mainly because I thought cup and true grip were much harder than TG but as I couldn't do twisted I should just not go there. And I am very nervous of kick up moves and arm strength moves - I prefer to use my legs and core to do advanced tricks as I know they are strong. I have fallen out of Ayesha attempts before and now that move frightens me. Really should start thinking about at least trying handsprings though or cartwheel mounts. Even if just to say ok they aren't my thing. So will try the lowering down from reverse crucifix and feeling out different grips. Should I focus on being comfortable in Ayesha and Inverted D before I try handspring? It makes sense to me to nail that first...
michaelaarghh · 3/28/2016
yep, you need to have a pretty solid ayesha, and inverted pencil. You should also have a solid caterpillar. I wouldn't say so much inverted D, because I think that's made a bit easier by having your feet on the pole to help you balance, whereas ayesha and inverted pencil are all core strength, and balance. It took me about a year to get my normal grip handspring, then another 10 months to get cup grip. I train with people who still can't get cup grip - I think this is definitely the hardest of the three grips, but I know some people who found cup grip easiest (ex-gymnast) so it is (like most things) based on the individual to some degree. Case in point, I had shoulder mounts years before I could handspring, whereas Phoenix said handspring helped her get shouldermount.
Phoenix Hunter · 3/28/2016
I'm thinking that the timing for me was key. I got my handspring and my shoulder mount the same day literally. It was a confidence boost to do the handspring then I felt invincible. Haha! Now I just got split grip Ayesha. It was just a mental boost that got me over the fear of going upside and taking my legs off the pole. I wouldn't attempt any sort of handspring before being able to an Ayesha from a caterpillar. Not at all. If you can't balance the Ayesha from the top down and you don't know what that feels like then your gonna feel very lost handspringing or cartwheeling up into an Ayesha.
Phoenix Hunter · 3/28/2016
And twisted grip Ayesha is easier than split grip or cup grip , but twisted is not necessary like Michael said. Except I am doing a combo for a routine where you go into a twisted grip Ayesha from a layback . I swear that's the only time I've seen it necessary to do twisted grip. It's not my choreography, I probably wouldn't have chosen that but it looks good and I feel comfortable to do it for this one routine. How are your elbow grip and/or forearm grip ayeshas? I would probably work on getting those comfortable first. But I know you are pretty strong and split grip might come easier for you. Some people tell me that split grip is less scary for them than elbow grip even though split grip requires more strength.
Phoenix Hunter · 3/28/2016
And yes inverted d may help you feel more comfortable. You have a strong extended butterfly. I've seen it. That's a big help. Before trying to handspring or cartwheel into an Ayesha , Veena has lessons for cartwheeling into an extended butterfly. I would get that first. Might not be so scary. Literally, I think just following the order of the lessons here will get you there. Get those easier grip ayeshas then the half cartwheels and half handsprings. :)
Veena · 3/28/2016
There are lots of threads on this an among them are members talking about injuries because of the TG. I really believe it's commonly taught only because they don't know better and it's "easier" than split grip! I will add that I also feel split grips are often over done too!
Veena · 3/28/2016
Ugh, typos!💩
michaelaarghh · 3/28/2016
See, I don't think elbow grip / forearm grip ayesha transfer to split grip that well. I can't do elbow grip (it is scary af!), and I can do forearm grip but find it really difficult to balance, but I'm super comfy in split grip (normal and cup) and could hang out there all day hahaha.
dustbunny · 3/28/2016
You do not need Aysha to try the half cartwheel or half handspring. But i agree that you should have it before you go on to the full versions. And split grip was easiest for me too, although I have recently had a bit of a breakthrough with my elbow/forearm grip caterpillars getting much stronger and more comfortable so I should try those Aysha versions again. ☺
Mechie · 3/28/2016
Is there a photo or video that show all the grips??? I often get confused over which is which... Personally...I think any grip will bother your body if you over do it...lol but that's just me. =P
Phoenix Hunter · 3/28/2016
Elbow grip was scarier for me as well but it was the first one I got because it requires less strength and is easier to balance.
Veena · 3/28/2016
Split grip was all I had figured out when I started!! I didn't know elbow or forearm grips were used! 🙃
Veena · 3/28/2016
Here's a video showing the difference between Split grip, cup grip and twisted grip! https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/56f95dd5-5520-42d7-ade6-001fac110003
Baudelaire · 3/29/2016
I've been able to split grip handspring for over 6 months, but can only lower down into cup, elbow and forearm grip. I had to ask specifically to be taught twisted grip as in our studio it's not the recommended technique. My instructor showed us a push out from inside leg hang and the transition from a cross ankle release into tg ayesha. I found these ok after working out how to get my shoulder around the pole. I'm glad i learned the other grips first though, a kind of confirmation that my shoulders and back are strong enough for tg to do it safely. Pretty sure I'll never kick up into it though. The logic on that bewilders me!
catmoves2718 · 3/30/2016
Veena, could you please say a bit more about what you mean when you say "I also feel split grips are often over done too"?
Rachel Osborne · 3/30/2016
Thanks so much everyone for the great input and advice. Knew I could count on you. I have always avoided handstands on the pole and stuff like pencil, Ayesha, handsprings and cartwheels and found other ways to express myself on the pole but now I am feeling more ready to experiment a bit (once my injuries are fully healed). I will train cup true and split grips and see how I get on.💜
Veena · 3/30/2016
Cat, I mean that split grips themselves can be done too often, and too soon. It's not a natural or easy position for our bodies even in cup or regular grip and the shoulders still need to be able to stabilize the body, so conditioning is very important. However, I still feel TG is a bigger issue for more of the population than regular grip, they all can cause injury if not done with respect to our bodies abilities. I dislike TG so much because it is EASIER to HOLD when kicking up into, than a cartwheel or handspring done with cup or regular SG. It's easier because the arm bone has rotated in the shoulder socket in a way that makes it feel "locked" into place, making balance less challenging. I believe that is why it became so popular.... it allowed more dancers to get into the inverted cartwheel/handspring position faster. Cartwheels and Handsprings done with regular and cup grip are HARD!
catmoves2718 · 4/1/2016
Thank you for the detailed response, Veena!
catmoves2718 · 4/2/2016
Tangentially, I recently heard someone recommend pointing the index finger of the top hand up in split grip, as though to mirror the lower hand. I understand why pointing the index finger of the lower hand down is better anatomically, but for the top hand it's less clear to me. Has anyone encountered this grip, or know why it might be preferred?
Bellini · 7/27/2016
I rarely have the possibility to go to pole studio, I work on my own. Well, I went to a weekend course and and they used the twisted grip there a lot, like kicking from the floor into the Ayesha, pole cartwheels and kind of pole splits using the grip. I tried to use the twisted grip for the first time in my life, and it felt odd, like there was a iron string running inside my arm and digging my flesh. I tried the twisted grip handspring to Ayesha maybe like 5 times per side, then it just felt so bad I didn't want to do it anymore. I noticed that the grip is kind of stable, though. The other girls were using the grip without problems (or so it seemed), the instructor says that everybody hurt. It's been 3 days since I was on the course, and I can't do an invert without pain in my shoulders. Am I just being a baby, can I do something to be able to do the grip even now and then, or should I just let it be? I'm kind of disappointed to what I got. I think I'm too weak to perform good Ayesha yet, I fail the handspring also with the split grip, but it feels much better and the result is about the same than with the twisted sister.. :/
AllysonKendal · 7/27/2016
I've also avoided it for a long time for fear of injuring myself. Mainly I was worried more about my wrists than my shoulders. My shoulders are/were tight not hypermobile, therefore all the twisting is/was done in my wrist. Now, my shoulders are more flexible and I use it limitedly. The reason I feel ok about it is... because I can split grip ayesha and split grip handspring. I think being strong enough to do those things, and my body understand the engagement and balance, makes me feel like I can use twisted grip when I need to for a combo. Having said that... I still find it more difficult to handspring in TG! Maybe just because I'm not used to it?! I like having the pull of my upper bicep in SG and I find it pretty stable! But I also do not not swing the legs when I handspring... I do more of a little "pop" with my chest facing the ceiling... (https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/563e7d6f-eaf4-4be5-a5e4-1253ac110089 thats a pretty old video from very low, but you get the point) I feel like this is a lot less strenuous and jerky on the body (especially if you "fail"), and helps me in working towards a deadlift. I will say I have found a lot of what you found.. a lot of puzzled looks and confusion when I would say I don't use TG?!? Like saying... "oh I don't believe in outside leg hangs"... It seemed so fundamental to most people that it seems insane that I wouldn't do it?!? Sigh. I guess I kind of gave into peer pressure.
dustbunny · 7/27/2016
@Pheonix I'm curious as to how it went with your TG transition in your showcase, and since that initial training period if your opinions on TG have changed at all. Did you "hang it up" after the showcase as planned, have you grown to love it or do you think as AK has said that you might "use it limitedly"?

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