Can we talk about the twisted grip?

Mummyof3 started this discussion · 1/23/2014

I tried and tried to get my split grip Ayesha, for weeks and weeks. I looked around youtube and noticed a lot of people do it with a twisted grip. I tried it and got it first time! I'm now working on the hand spring, but am curious to know peoples view on it. I note that Veena doesn't teach it. Is it really bad for the wrist joint? Do others instructors share the same view?

22 replies

chemgoddess1 · 1/23/2014
I am on my phone or I would link many of the discussions. Basically when you are in twisted grip you have extended all of your muscles to a near breaking point which cheats strength and stability. At the same time though if anything goes wrong since everything is maxed out the probability of injury is extremely high. Do a search on here and you will find so much it will make your head spin.
Jacki C · 1/23/2014
It's kind of a bad habit. I won't show anyone, but I do it. So far so good, and it may be due to biological variations. I've never had a problem with it. I understand that I am in a minority and that may change. My shoulder definitely gets pissed off at other moves, like the pixie spin or swoops. I twisted grip with no issue. It's one of those moves that you do at your own risk. I actually didn't know any better until I did a TG handspring in one of Pantera's workshops. She did not like it, LOL. So I say keep working on the other grips now that your trunk knows what to do.
darcit · 1/23/2014
Definitely look up some of the other discussions on twisted grip. There's tons of great info on here. As an instructor I won't teach it, because the potential for injury is so high, and I feel like it also allows people to get into moves that their muscles aren't actually strong enough for. I can do it - but I learned it after I could solidly lower into and hold an iron X in both split and cup grips. And I still don't do it often.
Krista Bocko · 1/23/2014
I don't teach it and don't demo it. Students who watch youtube will see it anyway and ask me...then I explain the same things as said here. I rarely do it, but I also take into consideration the diameter of the pole (I wouldn't do it on a 50 regularly--too much wrist torque). I agree that often students jump into it too fast--I would train other grips FIRST. That is so, so key, and an indicator of strength and body awareness. I did SG before ever doing twisted. I *cringe* when I see TG being taught as THE FIRST grip for ayesha, and to students way before they are ready.
VanillaryPuff · 1/24/2014
Would you say the same things apply for the SM? Should a twisted grip be avoided in general, or just with handspring/ayisha thingies? I guess it's never good - it doesn't feel good with a SM anyway... I just thought I'd ask :)
IrishOrla · 1/24/2014
Oh no, I really didn't realise it was this bad doing twisted grip. I've never had any pain or discomfort when doing my tg Ayesha and tg butterfly. Crazy. :(
SV26869 · 1/24/2014
I've never had any problems with tg Ayesha , nor with butterfly... Is is so bad? Which grip is safer?
Krista Bocko · 1/24/2014
Well, how long have you been doing the TG? Even if you don't have issues with it now, long tem and repetitive TG use often = shoulder/wrist/forearm issues. I think it's super important to train other grips in addition. If you're ONLY doing TG, I think that's setting yourself up for injury.
darcit · 1/24/2014
I feel that split grip and cup grip are both safer than twisted grip. Both in terms of body mechanics and in terms of not letting you do something you're not ready for. I teach split grip first, then cup grip. Because of the way your hand is positioned on the pole in split grip if you're using too much force (i.e. jumping or kicking into it too much, sweeping the leg too forcefully, dropping into it too fast) instead of using muscle and technique the top hand will pull away from the pole. Because of the way the hand and arm wrap around the pole in twisted grip (twisting the wrist, forearm and shoulder) the hand is much less likely to pull off the pole when too much force is being used. Instead the force is transferred to the shoulder elbow and wrist of the upper arm. In twisted grip you're relying more on your skeleton than your muscles. Even if this doesn't hurt at first (or doesn't hurt enough to prevent someone from continuing to do the move) it's this repetitive yanking on the joints that can cause long term injuries.
BonnieAndClyde · 1/24/2014
I am so glad I just read this. Very informative. Ive been wanting to attempt TG but already have wrist issues so im excluding this grip from my list of grips to learn!!
VanillaryPuff · 1/24/2014
I find this very interesting, as I've always been taught to use the twisted grip for ayesha and handspring, like there was no other way to do it. I've also been taught to SM using the twisted grip. I hardly ever use it, though, I like cup grip way better for the SM. Seems I've been right ;)
SmilingFox · 1/24/2014
I've been struggling with SG Ayesha as well, but I can not attempt to use TG at all. It puts such tremendous pressure on my wrists that I can't take trying it more than once. I can do a reverse grab, but any kind of lift with TG causes inflammation and pain. So, alas I am stuck struggling with the SG, and that slippy thumb, for the ayesha. I just don't want to cause myself any more damage than I already have going on in my wrists. So, yep, the TG can really cause some damage to those delicate wrists.
polergirl · 1/25/2014
TG from on the pole is also muuuuuch less damaging than handspring kicking into TG anything. Less force twisting on the shoulder in jerky fashion. I don't do it and I don't teach it. Have seen too many people complaining of injuries and soreness after doing it for awhile.
Mummyof3 · 1/26/2014
Thanks for all your input, I appreciate you taking time to reply. It seems to be a hot topic, and one I can't ignore seeing as the majority are telling me it could be harmful. I shall go back to working on my SG Ayesha now I know I can hold the TG easily, it has given me confidence in myself. I won't be submitting my jan challenge though..... It was TG handspring! Thanks veenas!
michaelaarghh · 1/27/2014
Twisted grip is pretty common here in Australia, but we also have v skinny poles (38mm). I can't imagine TG on a thick pole would feel too great. I can definitely see TG handspring being really dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, and it can be quite jerky. Again, I feel like if you don't have the strength and are kicking into a TG shoulder mount, again...that can be dangerous. But I personally like twisted grip shoulder mounts. You're using different muscles than you would in a cup grip for instance... TG is a lot of core and you use a lot of lats, as well as some of the muscles in your shoulder, whereas cup grip is also a lot of core, but a lot more shoulder and a lot less lats. I personally really like twisted grip, and especially when I'm inverted. But, it can be dangerous and I think you should keep in mind what your body is capable of (e.g. if you don't have the shoulder flexibility work up to that rather than just pushing past it)
Polefanatic678 · 1/27/2014
I didn't go near twisted grip (except shoulder mount) until about 2.5 years in to my pole journey and I've not had any issues with it ***TOUCH WOOD*** I believe that it had alot to do with my body being trained and muscle developed enough to support the odd positioning of my shoulder in the move. I favour twisted grip because I actually fell out of SG and broke my collarbone in 2012 however I still try not to overdo it and if I feel the muscle start to tighten I back away.. I actually have more issues with my bottom arm in the forearm from pushing! :/ silly bodies
Veena · 1/27/2014
My frustration with this grip is not that some use it, but that I see studios pushing it as a grip EVERYONE should learn. Many studios only teach the twisted grip for ayasha, cartwheels and handsprings, and they teach it to beginners!!! I would love to see more polers understand that not EVERY move or grip is right for EVERY body type! I would agree that for some, using it wont be an issue, however, it was a signature grip that worked for a particular pole dancers body. Then, everyone decided was so cool "we must all do this". Many moves are signature for a reason, that persons body could move in that way naturally! I know judges (myself included) that will not give high marks for TG because it is easier to hold, they are more impress with the split grips and true grips (which we also have to condition our bodies for btw). If you are working on the Twisted grip, then DO NOT do it from the floor by standing and KICKING into it! The best way to test the TG waters is from an invert off the pole.
Mummyof3 · 1/27/2014
I didn't have any issues with it and have only been playing around with it for the last month, so hopefully I have done no harm. I'm naturally quite flexible so hopefully this has worked in my favour. I mastered the elbow grip Ayesha and had in my head I must progress onto split grip, and like I said it just wouldn't happen. So I was so happy to find that the TG made it all fall into place. I think I need to go back to elbow grip and explore that further, like training for the straight edge and fang etc. I've only been poling a year, there is no hurry. I'll impress you with a true grip yet Veena!
Veena · 1/27/2014
One thing to be aware of Mummy, flexibility without the strength to support the shoulder is not good either. So it's good you are flexible to do this move, so now focus on conditioning the shoulders.
Mummyof3 · 1/28/2014
Will do! I have decided that 2014 will be my year of conditioning and flexi. I have your lessons, love the pole strength routine, and other recommendations to achieve a solid SG?
michaelaarghh · 1/28/2014
We did conditioning for it by holding the twisted grip, standing in front of the floor feet flat on the ground and then lifting knees to chest. It's a great conditioning exercise for your core as well as your shoulders. But you have to be really careful to dead lift and not jump into it (that obviously defeats the purpose!)
Veena · 1/28/2014
Mummy, you'll want to focus on the shoulder conditioning exercises in the lessons, these will give your shoulders a good foundation. :)