Biomechanics of two different splits?!?

JeHanne started this discussion · 10/2/2011

Hi all! What is the difference in the muscles that enable a squared hip split on the ground and the muscles used when you lay on your back and bring a leg toward your head while keeping your other leg on the ground? Like a Jade split but on the ground instead of on the pole. They are both splits. Even though I can do a standard split with my hips squared, when I pop over on my back and try to recreate it my leg doesn't descend near as far towards my head. I don't get how they are different but have some obvious variance in flexibility depending on how I am positioned. I am one of the types that likes to know 'why' so if anyone knows this, please share. Thank you!

17 replies

Runemist34 · 10/2/2011
A few things to consider, just from me thinking about it (you might have already thought of these, too). First, when you're doing your split on the ground, can you put your head on your leg at the same time? Is your back straight, or curved? And then, if you lay on your back and try to do the splits with your leg to your head...well, your body will take up space underneath your hips, so your "bottom" foot, the one that's away from your head, has slightly farther to go. And, since you are laying on the ground, your back is totally flat, against the floor, changing your hip position. To be fair, I've never tried it (I can't do the splits...YET!)and I might be totally off, but these are the things I would think of. Maybe try recording yourself attempting each position, and see if you can find the differences in your position?
JeHanne · 10/2/2011
Hi Runemist34, I can put my head on my leg when on the ground split and rest my upper body on my front leg. I do have a slight curve in my back and am working on pike stretches and straddles to help with that. I had never thought about the foot having farther to go when on my back... great point! So maybe then the mechanics are the same but greater flexibility is required? Hmmm... Thanks for sharing these observations! I have been training for splits for about 6 months, it wasn't until the last 4 weeks I started to see dramatic progress. For the first two months I was almost embarassed to even try and it was really painful. Not in a bad injury pain kind of way but a "why are you doing this to me" kind of way from the tension of flexibility training. I wondered a few times myself why I was doing that to myself. Was worth it! Thanks again!
Runemist34 · 10/2/2011
Aah, I totally understand! I LOVE stretching, but it's been a long time for me to learn that I like it at all. But when I try to stretch my hip flexors, they're soo tight, and it's taking my body a while to understand that those muscles CAN stretch! It's a bit painful, but I'm not pushing too far, because I don't want to do damage! I'm showing improvement! :) It's been a week now! I'm sort of just waiting for the plateu to come >_>
MilienElayne · 10/2/2011
Doing a split lying back down on the floor takes a similiar amount of flexibility as doing a standing forward split. If you do manage a flat split in either of those positions, your hips will not be square. I call them 'diagonal' and I use them 'for show'. Your front leg will be a little to the side because your body is in the way... your leg will rest on your shoulder and brush your ear and you'll be struggling to keep your bottom leg straight and on the floor, it's good to have someone press it down for you. However, if you are only doing the position to stretch and not 'for show' then try to keep the hips square, that'll stretch your hammies better than relaxing and pulling slightly diagonally to get a show split.
amy · 10/2/2011
it's a hip flexor split (square) versus a hamstring split (off square). =)
JeHanne · 10/2/2011
I love it too Runemist34, feel great after. Its like my body gets decompressed. 😁 Flexibility time has become my 'ME' time. My experience is that it is slooooooow going though and requires patience and consistency. Thank you MilienElayne, I do not have a solid standing forward split either... yet. Appreciate your explaining the for show and stretch differences. I was able to visualize it and had that 'a-ha' moment! Amy, thank you! I see now that my hamstrings are what are less flexible. That makes perfect sense. I was sedentary for many years due to illness/career/academics. Movement brings so much life into my life now. I am thrilled for all victories big and small. I am very appreciative of these helpful replies, now I know the difference. 🥂
amy · 10/3/2011
no problem~ and very perceptive of you to feel a difference =) i'm the opposite-- hamstrings are loose but the hip flexors are very tight. it's interesting to really start to connect to all the peculiarities of your body!
jkpolegirl · 10/3/2011
U also have to remember when u are doing a regular split all of your weight is helping to push closer to the floor, its a more passive move, the more you relax the deeper you can get....... When you are on you're back, you lose that advantage, your body weight is underneath you not on top on you now, you have to engage your muscles a little more too which sometimes takes away a little flexibility If you can do a normal spilt, I would recommend continuing your flexibility by practicing over-splits... That might help a little
glitterhips · 10/4/2011
I stupidly always assumed that if you could do the splits you could do a jade! Now I have a new respect for those girls who can because I am stretching and my foot is over halfway there but has a ways to go to get to my head when I'm laying on my back. My splits are about 2 inches off the ground still, I feel like I will never get either one :(
JeHanne · 10/4/2011
Thanks Amy! So true how we become more and more in tune if we only stop to really pause and listen. Jkpolegirl, I have started to train oversplits now with my foam roller. So far so good... The laying on back splits stretch is improving but I expect it to take a while. Unfortunately I lose more than a little flexibility but thats okay! I am determined to hang in there for as long as this takes. : ) Glitterhips... right!?! I thought a split was a split... I was so wrong on that one. ha ha. We will get there... at the very least with enough time and practice... we will have more advanced flexibility compared to what we can do now. : )
RedFox · 10/4/2011
Just to clarify, Amy, when you say "show splits" do you mean like the spilts that Veena calls the open hip splits, as opposed to the "square" ones with the knee down? Knee down, hammie? Show splits, knee open?
exuberante · 10/4/2011
To reiterate jkpolegirl.... To get full splits in the air (unassisted by the sheer force of your body weight against the floor or your arms pulling your legs into the split), you'll need an oversplit. And as you start getting your legs closer and closer, kick your core into high gear to force yourself to stay there against its will. But, are you trying to achieve full splits in the air or the floor splits like this video? http://youtu.be/pO1FGo6gPDw FYI -- you'll have to bring your leg slightly to the side of your face to get to the ground. If you go directly in front of your face, your body is usually in the way. Hopefully that helps a bit!
amy · 10/5/2011
redfox, not sure if you were addressing me? i didn't use the "show splits" wording and i don't have the veena lessons so i'm not sure what it looks like in the videos! 😕 to have a square split, both your hips must be aligned meaning that one isn't further forward than the other. that's all that square means. you can have a non-square split that is concentrated in the hamstrings, and still have your back knee down. the more that your hips are square, with your back straight and pelvis tilted upright, the more that you are concentrating the split in your back hip. if you lean forward over your leg, you are again focusing more on the front hamstring. i can get a full split unassisted in the air in a jade, chopsticks, standing yoga split, or oona/russian split, and i DO NOT have an oversplit. you can cheat every single one of those with an out-of-square split that is hamstring focused to pull your forward leg down, and if you have strong hamstrings, you can pull the back leg down. splits in the air are helped by oversplits, but you need to work hamstring strength to pull the legs apart.
RedFox · 10/5/2011
Oh, sorry Amy, I thought you were the one who had mentioned the show vs hamstring splits! But thank you for your response. I get it now. I can do a jade but not oversplits so...I mist be doing the show splits then. I'll play with both and work towards oversplits so I have as much range as possible. Thanks!
ORGANIC ANGEL · 10/5/2011
@ glitter You can do a jade even if you can't do the splits by bringing it to your head. The jade splits are an illusion. The body is pulled up and many women have not been able to do the slits and are far, far, far from it but they can do the jade splits. I don't know how to explain it different than that-but you should work on it(if you haven't already) even though you said you can't do it that way. You'll probably surprise yourself :) I can do the jade splits as well as regular splits, but it is a different feeling than the jade.
Anonyma · 10/6/2011
i have 0 flexibility im like a stiff 2 by 4 , i cheat the jade i do it " half"
JeHanne · 10/6/2011
I love learning there is a 'cheat' to the Jade! Been working on my Supine Hamstring Stretch. One day I want to totally show off and get my ankle to my ear. For now I will just focus on not crying while in the stretch. Baby steps! ; )