Becoming a pole instructor
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No matter how you break it down, it still amazes me the people who expect to not only get a short cut to certification but to pay a fraction of what I did to get there and cant understand why I won't do it cheaply! I dont expect each person to pay what I did to share my experience and knowledge with them but I won't insult myself by offering it for a couple of hundred dollars. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Hi everyone, I'm with Brass Ovaries Pole dancing and I'm NASM (National Association of Sports Medicine) certified and getting a Pole Position Fitness certification in February. My NASM cert is about to expire and I'm not sure if I should get ISSA certification as planned (a very well respected personal training exam) or ACE. ACE seems to be preferred by pole instructors, can I ask why? Is it because they have a group exercise focus? Julie
No matter how you break it down, it still amazes me the people who expect to not only get a short cut to certification but to pay a fraction of what I did to get there and cant understand why I won't do it cheaply! I dont expect each person to pay what I did to share my experience and knowledge with them but I won't insult myself by offering it for a couple of hundred dollars. Couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with this. However, the other side of the coin is ... if you spent, say $3000 all up on your training and learning you would probably end up with a lot more money if you re-sold much cheaper. Not so cheaply that you devalue the knowledge itself, but say $500ish per person, for half the knowledge you have. Yes, they're getting an amazing deal. But you're getting a better one, because many more people are likely to spend $400 than $800. So you'll end up with the most in the end, in the end. You only need about 8 people do pay that low price to break even. Everything after that is profit 😀 So you're not shortchanging yourself financially at all. Because you would probably get twice as many enrolments at least, at the lower price. That's purely the business side of course. There's also ethical considerations such as one's perceived duty to the pole dancing industry not to sabotage our image by making qualifications seem trivial etc etc.
That's true but I don't think some people realize the amount and cost of training and certifications others have had. Just off the top of my head, my training has been closer to the range of 7,000 when you add it up. That doesn't even count the time I've put into it which in business you have to consider the value of your time as much as what you spend. This isn't just about making my money back...heck if I'm a successful business person I will more then break even...It's about how could someone expect to spend a couple of hundred dollars to get what I've worked so hard to obtain on top of my monetary investment. Finally consider this - a student spends close to a couple of hundred dollars for for just one 6-week/6 hour program...sometimes less...many times more. But people expect to only spend a couple of hundred dollars for certification? Now...I don't charge thousands. Mine are roughly $800 for basic and $600 for intermediate but I know of other really good programs that cost a couple of thousand dollars that are very good and definitely worth it. Of course I know of some for much less that aren't worth the time, let alone the money. At $800 I'm making $50 an hour for one on one training with someone as the basic program is 16 hours long. Of course (unfortunately) no one HAS to be pole certified to teach pole dancing so they really don't have to spend anything. It's a personal, ethical and business decision but it's not like you must be certified and all your choices are in the thousands of dollars range.
Hi everyone, I'm with Brass Ovaries Pole dancing and I'm NASM (National Association of Sports Medicine) certified and getting a Pole Position Fitness certification in February. My NASM cert is about to expire and I'm not sure if I should get ISSA certification as planned (a very well respected personal training exam) or ACE. ACE seems to be preferred by pole instructors, can I ask why? Is it because they have a group exercise focus? Julie AFAA also has Group Fitness Instructor Certification (what I earned my cert. with), but ACE is probably heard of more than AFAA. Both are equally good IMO. I have heard tho that the ACE Personal Trainer stuff is harder than the AFAA Personal Trainer stuff, but I have no experience with either course, so I can not give a fair opinion on that. Essentially you should be learning the same info from both programs, so I guess it depends on the price of the course and what the Pole Fitness Certification you are going to take prefers. Good luck.
That's true but I don't think some people realize the amount and cost of training and certifications others have had. Just off the top of my head, my training has been closer to the range of 7,000 when you add it up. That doesn't even count the time I've put into it which in business you have to consider the value of your time as much as what you spend. This isn't just about making my money back...heck if I'm a successful business person I will more then break even...It's about how could someone expect to spend a couple of hundred dollars to get what I've worked so hard to obtain on top of my monetary investment. Finally consider this - a student spends close to a couple of hundred dollars for for just one 6-week/6 hour program...sometimes less...many times more. But people expect to only spend a couple of hundred dollars for certification? Now...I don't charge thousands. Mine are roughly $800 for basic and $600 for intermediate but I know of other really good programs that cost a couple of thousand dollars that are very good and definitely worth it. Of course I know of some for much less that aren't worth the time, let alone the money. This is all very valid. I think it's hard to really put a value on the amount of time and money one has spent learning the trade and knowledge to present to others to make a successful business. Unless you make the students sign a non-compete clause (which may or may not hold up in court), you are running the risk that they will immediately turn around and open a pole studio down the street from yours, and be instant competition. Not that there's not enough business to go around for all, but to teach someone how to run a SUCCESSFUL pole studio based on your personal experience to me, is priceless.
Hi fellow UK'er Halfjack 🙂 I asked my pole instructor at the London gym I go to what's needed to become a pole instructor... She said any instructor at this particular gym and probably most of them needs to have an Exercise To Music (studio instructor) certificate. Pole certificates are optional, but for a gym to hire you, you basically need the ETM class. So this would be your first step. YMCA do this for around £500, which is apparently the best option. There are other ways of getting the ETM certificate but they cost around £700 and are apparently based on the YMCA one anyway. It might seem odd, as ETM isn't related to pole per se, but it shows that you can lead a class (to music) and some muscle / body theory. As a side note, my teacher's got plenty of pole certificates but she didn't rate them highly at all. If you come across any ones with good reputation, let me know!
Gsylass ·
Hi hipshaker, I'm looking at this one http://www.fitnessindustryeducation.com/AerobicsInstructorCourse/tabid/2919/Default.aspx which is just shy of £400 including VAT. It says it gives enough REPS points and it's a distance learning course which is perfect for me. Then I'd do a teaching masterclass. That's my long-term plan anyhow!
RoxyPink ·
the one thing that has been assumed in this thread is that ALL the high cost (USPDF..etc) training programs include "business start up" info...I've been doing some research here and there because I do think it's import to have certs under the belt...but why would I spend $3000 and not get the business inside info? does that make sense. I have no problem paying for a good training program and for the time spent in developing the training program if I'm going to get the business side too. But I haven't found too many $$$ trainings that include good business info. The flip side if I'm not looking for the business side I shouldn't have to pay $3000 either. You can get a reputable PS cert for $400. I don't know of an organized sport that costs that much for training either...in figure skating your certification was your experience....same for gymnastics etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the USPDF includes business info in their $3500 training...and it's only good for two years?!?!?! So yes I will pay for you too teach me how to start my business and to help me be a better teacher and yes I would probably be willing to pay $3500...ouch! lol But if an only if it includes this information because as Empyrean said it will save me $$ in the long run. Sorry if none of this makes sense...I've been battling a horendous headache for three days and i can't quite think straight...lol
Charley ·
Roxy, ETED's certs DO teach you the business end of pole too...and Mary Ellyn is always a PM away for help too. I haven't even taken her certs yet and she has helped me immensly with a lot of things. I didn't realize there might be a lot of people out there that want to start up their own business that may not know the business end of things - especially the marketing. That gets me thinking.
the one thing that has been assumed in this thread is that ALL the high cost (USPDF..etc) training programs include "business start up" info...I've been doing some research here and there because I do think it's import to have certs under the belt...but why would I spend $3000 and not get the business inside info? does that make sense. I have no problem paying for a good training program and for the time spent in developing the training program if I'm going to get the business side too. But I haven't found too many $$$ trainings that include good business info. The flip side if I'm not looking for the business side I shouldn't have to pay $3000 either. You can get a reputable PS cert for $400. I don't know of an organized sport that costs that much for training either...in figure skating your certification was your experience....same for gymnastics etc. Roxy-Pink, that's a good question about the business side of things being included in certification. I'm not interested in having my own studio or teaching others on my own, but I am taking the Climb & Spin (USPDF) intensive training and certification next month. I'll be sure to ask Kira and Wendy about that as I feel that would be great advice to have for that are interested in owning a studio. As far as the money goes, I too was like WTF at some of these prices. But reading the explanations of Empyrean and others, it makes sense in the long run for these certification programs to cost as much as they do.
anngiern ·
roxy pink... i would call/email them to ask it if its included. i know on the oc pole fitness certification its kind of towards the bottom and says "business builder consulting module". so sometimes it is not as noticeable. and sometimes its something they will do on the side so to speak and they dont advertise it. i guess one big thing i like to give advice on to aspiring instructors is to decide if you want to run your own studio or just be a teacher for someone else as sandybrown said. some of these programs are geared towards people who want to open up their own business. i HIGHLY agree with charley in regards to marketing,customer service and other business things that are helpful. there is an organization called SCORE and they help people with getting businesses started. there website is http://www.score.org if that is the route you are planning to take. i believe many of their workshops/seminars are low costs. you can have all the certifications in the world but if you dont have a marketing/business plan it could possibly go no where. also if you dont have any kind of methodology on how you do your classes it will cause customers to get frustrated. you really have to sit down and write all these things down which is where the business plan really helps. ( i think they have a free one that you can download) i have it saved on my computer and you can pm me and i can send it to you via email if you would like a copy. and also a particular dance style....i have seen both ends of the spectrum...you can have many great certifications but if people don't like/or not attracted to your dance style (or acrobatic style if you are leaning towards the more fitness type of pole)then it can be hard. but at the same token i have seen beautiful dancers but they cant teach worth a lick. and that really sucks when the teacher cant break anything down. so its best to have the combination of both. pole dance is unique in that it is a combination of fitness and dance. but when it comes to the dance part your style will sell it along with your teaching style. i LOVE LOVE LOVE AMERICAS BEST DANCE CREW...those guys and gals are amazing!!!!! i would take a class with some of them simply b/c of their style and energy! i could care less about what certifications they have b/c their dance skills sell it for me and they are FREAKING AMAZING. but if i went to a class and didnt feel like they were good teachers i probably would not take lessons again.
First, I'd like to say that for what is offered in C&S I would take it in a heartbeat (even though I offer my own course) because I see it as a great addition to my education as an instructor. THere is a LOT of information on pole dancing and many moves and styles included in it. I dont know how else to say it but they seem to have a lot of creativity to some of the moves they teach and I'm always hungry for more! Having taken a workshop with Wendy recently I know she is very thorough on safety and biomechanics. Charley...thanks for filling in about my program....Yes mine includes business start up as part of the program. My husband who is an accountant (specializing in small business), financial consultant, tax preparer, and certified in insurance gives a portion of the class. Even better...he is available for free consultations for as long as your certification remains current! He'll explain how to start up and license your business and if you want him to do it all for you, he'll give you a discount as well! 🙂
Just remembered something that I wanted to share. Had a little giggle today with a girl currently in my internship program who is now studying for her AFAA group fitness exam. She commented that so far, the AFAA theory seems "just as thorough as" my program! LOL I was definitely flattered!
deetron ·
Hi everyone, I'm with Brass Ovaries Pole dancing and I'm NASM (National Association of Sports Medicine) certified and getting a Pole Position Fitness certification in February. My NASM cert is about to expire and I'm not sure if I should get ISSA certification as planned (a very well respected personal training exam) or ACE. ACE seems to be preferred by pole instructors, can I ask why? Is it because they have a group exercise focus? Julie AFAA also has Group Fitness Instructor Certification (what I earned my cert. with), but ACE is probably heard of more than AFAA. Both are equally good IMO. I have heard tho that the ACE Personal Trainer stuff is harder than the AFAA Personal Trainer stuff, but I have no experience with either course, so I can not give a fair opinion on that. Essentially you should be learning the same info from both programs, so I guess it depends on the price of the course and what the Pole Fitness Certification you are going to take prefers. Good luck. I am very interested in this part of the thread. What are everybody's opinions on the different personal training certifications, and also with regard to pole dancing? There is one company here in Ireland teaching an ACSM (American College of Sports of Medicine) program, and not many others that I know of! All of the PT certs I'm aware of are: ACE - Have heard of alot of folks with this one, particularly in the pole dancing community ACSM - Taught in a classroom near me, and have heard claims it's harder and/or more thorough than ACE or ISSA AFAA - Again, have heard claims that this is harder / more thorough than ACE or ISSA ISSA - As far as I know there is no practical exam involved in this one at all!!! And the YMCA PT qualification, whatever it is. Does anybody have any helpful advice / caution about any of them? Or an opinion on which is best? PS: Why does the NASM cert expire, MissJulie? Is it because you need CPD points, or does it simply expire after a fixed period?
I don't know about the NASM but most programs require CEUs to renew. I personally have the AFAA certification and felt it was very thorough. However I cannot comment very much on the others not having taken them. Naturally you already know that only live testing - both written and practical - is acceptable. What I would recommend though is to take a group fitness/exercise program not the personal trainer programs as the group certifcation is better related to what you are doing.
anngiern ·
Just remembered something that I wanted to share. Had a little giggle today with a girl currently in my internship program who is now studying for her AFAA group fitness exam. She commented that so far, the AFAA theory seems "just as thorough as" my program! LOL I was definitely flattered! this is probably very true empyrean!! i know you have done your research as well as other notable instructors out there. i think we go above and beyond b/c you want these ladies to get it and achieve pole dancing..so you put your heart into it.
deetron ·
I don't know about the NASM but most programs require CEUs to renew. I personally have the AFAA certification and felt it was very thorough. However I cannot comment very much on the others not having taken them. Naturally you already know that only live testing - both written and practical - is acceptable. What I would recommend though is to take a group fitness/exercise program not the personal trainer programs as the group certifcation is better related to what you are doing. Thanks for the advice, Empyrean. Fortunately I've already got a group fitness / ETM and a gym instruction qualification, so I'm wondering what to do next! I'd love to do a personal training qual from the point of view of going even deeper into Anatomy and Physiology and things like gait analysis - and I have been told that PT study usually incorporates these things. I'm a bit of a nerd about fitness - I'd do it purely out of interest! Thanks for the thumbs up on the AFAA certification!
I started teaching pole after 6 months of pole lessons. Looking back (this was over 2 years ago) I realize how crazy-bad that was. The studio owner was desperate and the people she had coming in to substitute were horrible teachers. She hired me after one of the instructors fell off the pole (from an attempted Aysha) and broke her foot. I knew instinctively that I needed to know more safety information in order to become the best teacher I could. I studied and earned my ACE group fitness cert and also Pole Position Fitness cert. I took in every type of workshop, video, and pole class I could get my hands on. I bought books on and studied anatomy. I consulted my Chiropractor, Physician, and Orthopedic Surgeon for safety advice. I also have a Master's in Education and over 12 years teaching in the public school classroom. Finally, I would say I feel prepared to teach and lead classes. My problem now is that I can no longer work at the studio I was employed at. I ran into differences with the owner who accused me of micro-managing. I believe I was offering her suggestions on improving the pole program by offering safety advice, workshop suggestions, and certification information. The owner didn't want this, she just wanted her pole program to be 'fun' and 'not taken too seriously'. I don't want to work under that philosophy. This sucks for me because here I am ready and prepared to teach, with no place to do it. 😢 I guess the bottom line is that studios all have different standards. Some studios require certification, most don't. There are no prerequisites or qualifications for teaching pole dance. I hope that given the lawsuits and injuries that are happening that regulation will come. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Students are the ones that need to push for it. The problem is that so many people are so driven to take lessons that as long as someone is teaching them something (correctly or incorrectly) they are satisfied. It's a supply-demand issue. Since the interest in pole has exploded there are thousands of people across the US buying lessons. But I'd guess there are less than 200 'qualified' instructors out there.
My problem now is that I can no longer work at the studio I was employed at. I ran into differences with the owner who accused me of micro-managing. I believe I was offering her suggestions on improving the pole program by offering safety advice, workshop suggestions, and certification information. The owner didn't want this, she just wanted her pole program to be 'fun' and 'not taken too seriously'. I don't want to work under that philosophy. This sucks for me because here I am ready and prepared to teach, with no place to do it. 😢 I guess the bottom line is that studios all have different standards. Some studios require certification, most don't. There are no prerequisites or qualifications for teaching pole dance. I hope that given the lawsuits and injuries that are happening that regulation will come. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Students are the ones that need to push for it. The problem is that so many people are so driven to take lessons that as long as someone is teaching them something (correctly or incorrectly) they are satisfied. It's a supply-demand issue. Since the interest in pole has exploded there are thousands of people across the US buying lessons. But I'd guess there are less than 200 'qualified' instructors out there. Sadly this is the case at a lot of pole studios. It seems to me that a lot of pole studio owners know very little about fitness and or the business aspect, and are just trying to jump on the bandwagon because they think they will get rich by opening a studio. The problem is that pole can be VERY dangerous, and those who don't take it seriously and just want it to be "fun" are running into a lot of injury problems and bad technique that later leads to even worse injuries. The only thing I can advise is that students really research the studio they are planning to take lessons from - how long they have been in business, how experienced with sports, what certifications the instructors have, injury prevention, safety mats, spotting technique, etc. When I first started teaching at the studio I am with currently, the instructors they had were VERY inexperienced (one instructor - no longer with us - was having students perform just about every spin with the split grip) and after a while, a lot of students were coming to me with wrist and forearm injuries, as well as chest and rib injuries and shoulder pains from incorrect technique and inverting before they were ready. Pole dancing is fun, but shouldn't be taken lightly with the serious risk of injuries at hand. I guess all the studios who are seeming to ignore the safety aspect will be soon out of business when a student gets seriously injured and decides to sue the place..... 🙄
Hello, ladies! Thank you for this thread, you all made interesting points that have helped me organize a few issues in my head. I am interested in becoming a pole dance instructor but I have no background or knowledge about the fitness/dance industry that I'm interested in. I'm scared that I might not fully understand what it really means and takes to be an instructor; especially since I need to invest such a large amount of money into it and I have a photography career to worry about also. I have no problem with investing, as I want to make sure I learn the proper teaching techniques. From what I've been finding out, there are a lot of hidden costs that seem overwhelming. What I need to know is: how much money one needs to spend every year to be certified and insured? How much is the pay usually and how does one do workshops? How many hours should I work to cover all this and still be a performer as well? How do I do this and still have spare time for my other career? Basically, how do I become a successful instructor? Are there any other expenses or things I need to know that you guys could tell me about?
I teach a few nights a week and am covered under the owners insurance as a part time employee. I am however seeking my own insurance coverage just beacuse it would make me feel better. I am not certified and have mixed feelings about the certifications that are out there (there are several threads on this issue). Rates in my area are usually anywhere from $20-50 per class (instructor pay). PDC US is going to start offering pole insurance in the next few weeks. This is who I am looking into getting insured through as they have set this up specifically for pole instructors and pole studios.
Thanks CHarley for giving us a great insight into how managers of a pole studio judge potential teachers.... and I love that you are open to people from non-studio backgrounds as well "We also highly encourage exotic dancers to apply with us. There is an authenticity to the way an exotic dancer moves that many people really want to learn." I am interested in becoming an instructor, I am genuinely obsessed with pole and a huge people person so I think I would love it. However I need to be practical and check whether it's something that would keep me afloat financially, or would I need another source of income on the side.... I guess each studio and each country would offer different pay, but could give you me a ball-park figure for what the average pole instructor earns? Do most instructors have to keep their day job or have some other income on the side to suplement their pay? And how do instructors cope with the instense physical exertion when working for several hours a day, 5 or more days a week...? I imagine you would get incredibly fit fast, but do you recommend instructors to only do a certain amount of shifts/classes per week to not burn out...? If anyone else teaches or owns a studio, your feedback and insight would be greatly appreciated! :)
Charley ·
Sadly, the stuff I posted back in 2009 is no longer how that particular studio runs things anymore so I left. The industry has been steadily changing over the last 5 years or so. I have so updated ideas to new instructors. Having been in good and bad instructor situtations I feel like I have some better insights for you girls. It is not the end all be all to be a pole dancing instructor. Being an instructor says absolutely nothing about your talents as a performer. Being an instructor isn't for everyone and that's okay - I've been going back and forth lately thinking about if I want to continue teaching. Because I'm going through some of the negative aspects of the business I hope it's okay to freely share those things too. Pay. Instructors DESERVE good pay and pay should be based on your title, position and the work that youa r doing, plus certs if any apply. Instructors should get a flat rate and some times studios will offer a flat rate plus commision based on capacity of classes and resigning students. Please don't work soley based on commision because this gives the studio owner the option of not paying you or charging dirt cheap for classes and you not making the money you are worth. If you are creating your own classes you should get a flat rate plus commision, if you are coming in and teaching someone else's syllabus you should atleast get a flat rate. If you are getting a flat rate and teaching what they tell you to teach you should have some kind of yearly review so that you can attain a raise, the studio should have inventives for instructors who book their classes, bring in new students and get certified. If you aren't certified the studio should have a training program for you - sometimes these cost money but you will make all the money back on that investment - hte same goes for certification. Please don't work anyplace where you are the only one who has done a pole certification because the owner will only benefit from your experience and money and that's not fair to you. Make sure the studi is clear with you about what is expected of you. Are you expected to market your classes? Are you expected to create classes? Will anything you create be owned by the studio and taught by other people besides yourself? Are you expected to work the front desk, check people in? Are you expected to share your knowledge of moves or teaching with others? Are you required to sign a non-competition clause? Please, please find a fair situation where you are paid for all of your contributions to the company. I'll also warn that while I am always open to hiring exotic dancers I am seeing a trend now of hiring students and I am seeing a lot of places get a little snooty about the exotic dancer thing (makes me very sad.) I urge anyone interested in teaching to ask questions and make sure they aren't being used for their talents and then thrown away. I worked on commission and I made very good money however no matter how hard I tried to fill my classes I wouldn't get full pay because of this coupon, that special, etc. I designed an entire program that is NOW extremely successful and the owner only yelled at me for an hour and a half about being involved with something that didn't include her and told me if everything I did, did not promote her company I no longer worked there. I was told other instructors were afraid of me, that I was mean and malicious, that I was self entitled and dramatic. It was such a hurtful end that I am still recovering from. Please be sure that you are being paid for your work and that you aren't building someone else's business because I am not left with nothing and being made to feel like the bad guy because I couldn't take being treated like an idea monkey for someone's business.
Kobajo84 ·
Well said Charley! Sorry to hear you've gone through a difficult time with things lately. Just remember through it all, there are a lot of people that love & support you in all the hard work you do- whether we're actively there for you on a day to day basis or in brief times of passing here online. I hope you continue to enjoy teaching your passion regardless of the situation you're finding yourself in or if you find it necessary to take a break for your own well being, your students will still be there to see you through. I too was put through a similar situation & having had your support during a difficult time means so much to me. I'm in a better place now & couldn't thank all you ladies enough for all the support and wisdom you shared, without it I wouldn't be where I am today.
