Beauty Standards and Pole Dancers

Isis Kane started this discussion · 10/27/2013

So I've been looking at the winners of the major Pole Dance competitions, as well as some of the most well-known pole stars and I noticed there seems to be a pattern with which pole dancers are most heavily promoted. From what I've seen, the vast majority of these women fit into the traditional Western beauty standard. Professional pole dancers who are most visible in the industry tend to be Caucasian, straight hair, thin/slim build, no body hair, etc. Of course, I do not mean to downplay the incredible talent of these women. Many dancers who fit into this mould (Maddie Sparkle, Alethea, etc.) have inspired me, as well! However, it still troubles me to know that these are the ONLY types of women I have to look up to as examples of where I would like to be, knowing I do not look like that. It's not so much that I need a "role model" to enjoy and grow with pole dancing as a form of self-expression, but I question whether or not dancers who do not look a certain way will have the same professional opportunities as women who fit this beauty standard. It also troubles me because I know so many skilled and beautiful pole dancers who are of various races, ages, shapes and sizes-and although they may be successful in their own way (perhaps as teachers or artists) I do not see this diversity reflected amongst our "top rated" or most well-known dancers. It makes me think that these dancers are selected based on a specific aesthetic and also skill. I grapple with the question of whether or not it is "wrong" to select winners based on aesthetic (pole dance is also a visual art for the audience) but I also think it delves into a deeper question about who is considered beautiful in this culture-which can be harmful to women in the end. It also shifts the whole concept of pole dance in and of itself. How many times have I heard that you have to be "hot" or "in shape" to pole?? I really feel like if pole dance is going to grow into something larger than what it is now, there should be more diversity in terms of what a pole dancer is supposed to look like! Any thoughts?

31 replies

Runemist34 · 10/27/2013
I think that, unfortunately, a lot of it is that most women are victims of the social standard of beauty, instead of promoting it. The idea of having no body hair is definitely something perpetuated by our society, and I actually cannot say if it affects pole dancing specifically. I don't enjoy having hairy legs, personally, so I can't say if it would cause issues with grip or hair pulling. Otherwise, on the idea of having a slim build... have you SEEN Jamilla? She is BUILT. Her shoulders and arms are actually quite large, and it's (as far as I can tell) downsized quite a bit in her pictures, either by the pose selected, or by photoshop (I don't know for sure). However, yes, most of the women pole dancing at the very advanced level are quite slim... because they require a lot of muscle in order to achieve those moves. Muscle is harder to keep up than fat (or even less muscle), so the body uses much more of what it eats to keep them up, rather than storing it for later as fat. Also, they engage in a rather high level of activity, which means a lot of exercise in all ways- strength, flexibility and cardio vascular. This means that any fat they may be storing is quickly eaten up. Otherwise, I have found the occasional difference in those stereotypes, but not much. I found one woman who was beautifully voluptuous and curly-haired, which was lovely to see (as I am both of those). I know that we have veeners here that are of darker skin, curly hair, and different body types and weight. But... I suppose it would be nice to see a few more "super advanced" women, and men, who break out of those beauty stereotypes. Perhaps you can set your sights on being one of those to break out :)
Veena · 10/27/2013
What about Pheonix Kazree, Skittles, Natasha Wang! They're all amazing!
Veena · 10/28/2013
Oh and to address the body type issue. I don't think there's anything sinister going on. All pro athletes have similar body types for their sport.
Anya123 · 10/28/2013
What about Josiah bad azz grant?Or nicole the pole??She was just in Rihanna's music video.. Both are stunning performers. Every well know pole dancer has worked their ass off to be where they are...they are talented and have something special. It doesn't matter what race you are or what your face looks like if you're an outstanding exceptionally talented pole dancer you will get noticed.
chemgoddess1 · 10/28/2013
Pantera and Shadow both have titles.
darcit · 10/28/2013
Roz "The Diva" is not super thin - and I'd say she's well known. Also, in my experience (well actually the experience of the guy I partner with), body hair and pole definitely do not always go together. He shaves his upper legs because he found that otherwise he wouldn't have enough grip in a pole sit to hold me (and sometimes him). So I'd say that, in at least some cases, the lack of body hair is a practical concern.
polergirl · 10/28/2013
Rhiannan Nicole isn't teeny tiny and she moves like WATER. And she's strong strong strong stronnnnnng. Oh how I love to watch her. Same with AnneMarie Davies--that woman is an **entertainer**.
Lina Spiralyne · 10/28/2013
I think people fullfilling western beauty standards will have some kind of an advantage in about any industry. To me it doesn't seem worse in pole dancing than anywhere else. Many examples of successful performers who are deviating in one end or the other have already been mentioned. It's hard to escape the slim body type since excessive weight will make it more difficult on the pol. For the same reasons most champions are short and not of model height. But sure, some do seem to have experienced "discrimination", or at least that's the way she obviously took it. This post reminded me of an interview I read with Pantera and this is what it said: Tiny: What competitions have you entered or won? Pantera: I only entered one big one, The National USA Competition in 2003. I tend to not win competitions because of the way I look I think. Tiny: Is that tattoo related do you think? Pantera: Yes, definitely tattoo related. From a business point of view I'm not very marketable with all of my tattoo coverage, unfortunately tattoo is still too ‘Taboo', it's too awkward and makes me look very edgy, Or angry I dunno but people don't want to use that on the cover of a magazine. Tiny: I friggin would! Well, I mean one day I hope. Pantera: (laughing) I think most of the time because of the way I am – not really interacting with the crowd when I perform and stuff and having the tattoos, and because I'm strong like a motherf***er, people don't want to use this bodybuilder, hard-ass biker looking bitch on anything yunno. The full interview is here: http://candy-chrome.co.uk/pole-dance-blog-2/pole-dance-interviews-videos/pantera/
candy-chrome.co.ukCandy & Chrome – Pole Dance Fitness & Burlesque – Chester
Veena · 10/28/2013
That story makes a great point! I will say the "pole community" outside of SV is fickle about who they support. Pantera is amazing and I wish those who choose not to compete would be recognized as well. But that's the nature of media... 😞 I haven't follow major pole comps for about 2 yrs now and I forget that it's only champion winners outsiders are exposed to. Unless they come here, we have a great variety of polers with all levels of ability!!!!💜
Isis Kane · 10/28/2013
Thank you Lina-for that story, and I'm relieved to find someone who feels the same way! I can definitely relate to that as well, since I have tattoos and plan to get more. I won't be covered the way Pantera is, but I definitely see how tattoos deviate from that standard as well, and why she feels the way she does. I agree that being generically beautiful is an advantage in any industry. @Veena-I wish dancers outside of competitions would be noticed as well! I think that is one of the problems, actually because it feels like there are some narrowly-defined ideas or routes to success. Everyone poles for their own individual reasons, but I definitely know that I'd like to incorporate pole into my film art, as well as have it as a career option. I felt like entering competitions was the only way to get noticed and have a successful career, hence the reason why I brought this up. But that's not actually true! And there are so many different avenues :-) Thanks to some of the other commenters who have made some solid points, and brought up pole dancers I've never heard of. I do know about Nicole Williams-but again, she hasn't really won any major competitions, so I didn't bring her up. I also know about Natasha Wang, but she is an exception to the rule. As I mentioned before, I know many amazing dancers who do not fit the mold, but I feel like they do not receive as much recognition as those who do.
NicPoleO · 10/28/2013
I started pole dancing because I saw Pantera - her strength and uniqueness sold me totally. My first instructor was almost 6 feet tall and built more like Alethea. I am 5'10 and very muscular, I don't fit the mold either, doesn't stop me though. Will I ever hit those levels - no, but I will never leave pole either. I love watching and learning from everyone. I guess I just love every aspect of pole, and the people that populate this amazing world. :-)
Isis Kane · 10/28/2013
And also I should add-in coming into my own pole journey, I'm changing in terms of what is important to me. It is very easy for us to compare ourselves to more accomplished dancers, and forget why we got on the pole to begin with! The competitions, money, fame and success are all wonderful to have, but what is most important is your personal relationship with pole as a form of self-expression, fitness, or whatever it means to you! I would get so caught up in learning new tricks and getting frustrated at my level that I would not have the opportunity to relax, freestyle, and flow to the music. Pole has really made me delve into certain complexities within myself-and get to know myself better. I never want to downplay this aspect of my journey, and I never want to let what other people think stop me from pursuing my passion! I hope other women do and/or will feel the same way.
Maria-Elena Kadala · 10/28/2013
I think the diversity of the champions reflects the diversity, percentage-wise, of the participants. There are sports where some races are more predominant, and that's probably a reflection of the social environment in which one grows up. For example, we don't see as many white basketball players, or many white tennis players, but we do see some. Now that scoring is being standardized, for sure ability will count more heavily than looks. Size is certainly going to make a difference ... we see this in gymnasts, whose prepubescence is prolonged by low body fat. This isn't to say a larger curvier woman can't compete, but it just requires more strength to move that extra weight, even if it is muscle. There are some polers who've made a mark outside of competition: Aerial Amy comes to mind, as does Keex (Kira Lamb); both are bloggers. We have Veena, who never competed, and didn't even perform until a year or so ago! I disagree that the choices are made on looks alone ... look at the performances! And you aren't limited to looking at "champions", look around here, look on youTube, and you will find role models all over the world!
Charley · 10/28/2013
Interesting topic. I've had this conversation in my head many times. Being on the inside of competitions I've always analyzed my own constant failings at them from my ability to be even chosen to my ability to place well. While I don't think it's my body or face that exempts me from procuring titles and success it's my level of ability, I do see what you are talking a out. I suffer from b face. I tend to seem unapproachable because I'm socially terrified (it takes all I have to run around and mingle at events, it's really hard when you suffer from anxiety) and therefor I'm not very good at making eye contact with judges, I just assume they'll hate whatever I do, I can't dance on stage the way I dance at home and half the time, when I'm submitting something I choke, I get scared and generally do not get favor with online judges. A lot of it is my b face, a lot of it is my anxiety, but most of it is that I'm doing competition level dances. I get to caught up in my story and not enough in my tricks. I'm not doing fonjis and exciting moves and that seems to be what sells. In order to do those things you will see a common body type, it's just not as possible to perform that level without being extremely fit. I think that's why we don't see as much diversity body wise amongst high ranking pole dancers. Also consider lines, extension and form - those things look nicer aesthetically on longer bodies, small but proportionate bodies, etc. it's much easier to make a simple move look gorgeous when you have long legs or a thin waist. We all struggle to find moves that work on all levels for our body. Also think about how many high ranking dancers have a background in something else. They've been training their bodies for this their whole life. They have an advantage of body awareness that someone like myself does not have, they know which angles to do things to produce the best looking trick. It all goes together. I'm inspired by our high ranking pole dancers. It takes a lot of work to get there and for some it may be unattainable due to genetics, time, age, ability, etc. I think it's important to realize these professionals are just that professional. It's okay not to attain super poler status, attaining that comes with great sacrifice. This is why I look to all of you as we'll as professionals for inspiration and hope. This journey heals us inside and out. We are all super stars.
Saphyre · 10/28/2013
I love you Charley! Stated so perfectly! -Susan O
poledanceromance · 10/28/2013
Hopefully Joel Lessing won't mind me quoting him, but he was an online round judge for the Florida comp a while back, and when I talked with him about that experience afterward he remarked that one of the things judging really did show him was that, while many performers of many body types are capable of delivering absolutely amazing PERFORMANCES, there is a "body type" for the really high level aerial acrobatic pole work and that's the general aerialist body type- a relatively thin but muscled frame with a very strong upper body and good overall flexibility. I don't have a problem with that. If you look at the US women's olympic gymnastic team, there's very little variation in those ladies on height and general build. (Same for weight lifters, or any sport really...) In the more performance-oriented pole world or competitive circuits that aren't just about gynmastics and acrobatics there is much more body type variety in pole. As a cast member of Girl Next Door Chicago I can tell you there is a definite wide range in body types in GND, although they all have tricks that suit their body types because they have fantastic training. Within the "high level" pole competitions, I really think there are some people out there who are bucking "traditional" beauty ideals in how they perform. Danielle Romano is a FANTASTIC example of this...her whole look and style bucks the norm. I also think in some senses people like Patti Zikmund and David Owen buck beauty norms in the pole world by telling their story with their bodies without obsessing over what conventional wisdom says the pole aesthetic "should be"...in other words they aren't out there trying to look like ballet dancers or do things the "conventional pretty" way, they feel free to go out there and be creepy and stompy and interpret feeling and movement without trying to fit it into a particular dance technique. In general I think in many ways many people are attracted to pole specifically because we enjoy rejecting some of those norms. Even those of us who are the trained dancers are certainly doing something that the traditional dance world tends to push against. And those of us who are the "sexy style dancers" on first appearance might have a "look" that reflects western beauty norms, yet the western beauty myth doesn't allow for us to be respected for our looks if we "look like strippers..." we can't just be "normal" and pretty, we're whores! (so they say) And since we all had our own reasons to come to pole...I truly believe we are all fighting for something with our dance, and we all reject norms somehow...so I have learned not to judge a pole dancer from her outward appearance, and try to see each dancer for what she fights for.
Charley · 10/28/2013
At the end of the day after spending much time with a few champions and high ranking professionals I can tell you they struggle like we do. They have fear, insecurities and also feel the need to keep winning to stay on top. It's a lot of pressure for them too. Consider the day in the life of a champion. You aren't just poling for fun anymore, you've spent money and lots of it to compete, train, be outfitted, etc. You're struggling to be better than your last performance, especially if it was award winning. You are working to stay in top of every new move and innovate new things, the things you've already showcased are being done now worldwide amongst your peers, you have to come with something new now. Your value as a dancer has become your market, read financial, value. Not on,y are you training for your competitions but now you're marketing yourself for workshops once you get to said city for said competition and that's only if that competition will even allow you teach workshops. Workshops take time away from your practice but you need them to survive and pay for your competition. Now you're being asked to judge smaller competitions. One more thing to balance. If you're not super known yet few people will book you. That means you might be trying to balance a real job and pole like Natasha Wang or Nadia Sharif did. So now, you're working, training at night...and not just pole. Contortion. Dance. Yoga. Gym. Pole. So now you've gotten known enough, you're in a world comp, you're paying for that trip. You're training others on pole and trying to fit in your own practice. You want to win because who doesn't? Your hard work should mean something, right? You go. You dance. You don't place well. Now you're back to the grindstone wondering if the loss has cost you anything financially. Are you still great? Does this change the way you are viewed? It's all the same feelings no matter where you're at. Am I good enough? Am I talented? Can I make a living doing this? What did I do wrong? Why don't the judges like me? I'm working harder than ever before but not getting better. What else do i need to do? Am I pretty enough? Is my body strong enough, good enough, bendy enough, etc? We are all women. I'm the community theater of pole dancing. Not good enough to be an actress but this is what I love to do so I teach some classes, share my love for others and pole, find some small performances or comps and try. I keep trying because community theater has value too. I'm doing the same things the pros are just on a much smaller playing field. I hope that perspective helps.
poledanceromance · 10/28/2013
All that AND....factor in that underneath all of that struggle they are in constant, never-ending pain. Pain from overuse of the body in general, extreme physical fatigue...but also injuries. Every single pro I've met must constantly work around one or multiple permanent and painful injuries. Many of us pole for health and wellness...but the pros sacrifice that, and give up the general health and wellness benefits in order to make their bodies do those incredible things. Any professional athlete sacrifices the health and balance (what many amateurs seek by practicing) to make their bodies function a certain way. Most of us aren't physically able or emotionally capable of making that sacrifice...that's partly where the good genetics come in, many of these people are made of tough enough stuff to train through injuries that we would not and could not train through.
poledanceromance · 10/28/2013
And I'll say that one more time so it sinks in...I have NEVER met a "professional" pole dancer who does not have to work around at least one permanent injury. Not because they are necessarily reckless but because that is the nature of the choice they have made to do this professionally...it means you can't just quit to rest, and you also have to make it look good no matter how much that hurts.
Danielle Tillie · 10/28/2013
For the record, Charley... I totally consider you a professional. You professionally perform, you professionally teach, and you professionally compete. Regardless of any 'prestige' involved... you are a professional in this industry. :)
poledanceromance · 10/28/2013
Daniele so true there are many ways to be a polefessional that don't depend on competition titles ! I don't think anyone would deny that Veena is a professional and I don't think she's ever competed or held titles though she has coached people who have won titles! Similar to Kelly Yvonne who has also been on the front lines of pole for years now coaching, promoting pole as art regardless of level AND pole as high level sport.
Danielle Tillie · 10/28/2013
Honestly I even consider myself a professional. I've been instructing now for 2 years and I enjoy performing publicly. I feel what I have to offer to the "normal" (i.e. non-pole) world is substantial and unique, especially in my own city. Here I am definitely one of the resident polefessionals. I may not have won any major titles and I'm not pole-famous... but what I do with the pole I try to do as professionally as possible. I don't think I'd be striving for nearly as much if I hadn't adopted this mindset. But anyway this is rather off-topic. :P Sorry about that, OP!
Charley · 10/28/2013
Thank you Danielle! :) I think it's like acting. I remember listening to an incredible interview with the woman who played the oldest aunt on the Sabrina teenage witch show. She'd been acting for 20 years or something, steady but hadn't achieved "fame." She considers herself a working actress. I can tell you she was pleased with her career and had a lot of fun doing what she loved. Her take on "fame" was not that she wasn't pretty enough or talented enough but just had not found the role that would catapult her to beyond kardashian level fame. She also tended towards stage work which is its own demon and rarely provides great fame since its only accessible to the audience, it's not televised. She did what she loved and made a life for herself with her talents and desire. That story will always stick with me, So in regards to beauty and pole, I think that you will find that is common amongst all upper echelon of performers. I mean we wear lots of stage make up and sparkles so of course everyone looks gorgeous! I think everyone looks beautiful when they perform with their eye lashes and outfits and shoes! And that goes for all body types. That's just performing. We all look amazing. Nobody goes on stage with no make up in sweats, lol! I also think you can be a pole model and not be "famous". I look around here and fb and see so much beauty and under rated dancing its amazing. There isn't enough time in the day to watch all the great performers. When I did GND Chicago, I hadn't heard of many of the girls and I was freaking blown away and am sad I didn't get to see every performance through its completion. They made me laugh and cry. Th thing I love about pole is that there isn't a particular beauty mold. There is a recipe for championships no doubt. It not because of an agenda but because at that level you kinda need to tough and strong. Ill also add our high ranking dancers all love pole and women. They want to empower all of us and each other. At no point would any of them feel good thinking we are feeling bad because of their skin deep beauty. Each champ I've met or worked with has made ME personally feel great.
Veena · 10/28/2013
Everyone makes wonderful points! I too consider myself a Professional, however I would not say my dancing is at an Elite competitive level. You can totally be a Professional but not compete.
chemgoddess1 · 10/28/2013
Danielle, I was going to mention you because you to me do not fit that mold as you have a very different look, and considering you placed at Midwest this year I would consider you holding a title. I also want to mention Michelle Mynx and Katrina Dohl. They have won numerous Burlesque awards and Michelle has judged countless competitions. Both are very well known and do not fit the mold. I will however say that I do think that some of the competitions are looking not only for ability but someone who will be the face of their competition for the next year, but that is also me having a bad taste in my mouth for many of the comps.

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