And the "feminist" war against pole continues...

Catsanctuary177663 started this discussion · 9/19/2016

This article is staggering in its prejudice and hypocrisy. Apparently we are now requiring 8 year olds to wear stilettos?! Thank you Veena, for your broadcast last week, btw. Hopefully it opened some closed minds. http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/09/18/pole-dancing-perpetuates-sexism/

Feminist CurrentWhether you like it or not, pole dancing perpetuates sexismSince Monday, staff at the London Abused Women’s Centre (LAWC) have been inundated with angry comments on their Facebook page. While one might assume the natural enemy of a feminist organization would be men, you’d be wrong. Rather, the hundreds of comments were coming from women — “polers,” they called themselves. A “poler” for those…

20 replies

Runemist34 · 9/19/2016
This article is clearly very biased, misinformed, and making some pretty large leaps in their opinions. To indicate that us "polers" are anti-feminist is to paint with a very, very broad brush. To say that "All Johns are scum" (Johns being the men who engage in sex with prostitutes and pay the money) is also an extremely broad brush. For these people to say that putting caution tape around a sex shop to be "a holistic approach to feminism" is, to be frank, so beyond my current understanding of logic that I simply feel I may be reading some form of alien language at this point. I couldn't continue the article after that, because it's taken such leave from reality (or, at least the reality that I understand, skewed in some ways though that may be) that I felt I was reading a very terribly written, depressing fantasy article written by someone who doesn't like the word "research." Just... don't listen to them. We, as females, as feminists, as polers, as sexually empowered women who feel amazing in stripper heels and also in crocs and slippers, are always going to be under fire. At least, I expect this to be so for the rest of the time I am on this planet as the way I am right now. Letting their drama get to you is like letting the dramas of a bunch of catty 14 year olds get to you. Not our circus, not our monkeys. Keep doing what you love to do, because that is literally the most amazing, radical, and feminist thing you can possibly do.
Runemist34 · 9/19/2016
Also, I went and read some of the comments (which I do not recommend, apparently I'm feeling masochistic), and the author of this article is so... very defensive, biased, and closed minded. She has made it clear that she has absolutely no respect, and no interest in a balanced version of journalism. So, I stand very strongly by my statement: Not our circus, not our monkeys.
Catsanctuary177663 · 9/19/2016
hmmmm, interesting, thank you. If this was an anomaly-one badly-written piece of nonsense, I would indeed ignore it, however it is one of many and this is now a global protest against pole that is perpetuating dangerous myths. I am allergic to drama but in this case, it IS our circus and WE are the monkeys. Pole fitness/dance is the circus we love. I have zero time for this but (speaking for myself only), believe it is my duty as someone who has deeply benefited from aerial arts to step up and insert my voice because I believe it is wrong to enjoy the benefits of the sport and let others do the dirty work of providing the facts. When it gets hot in the proverbial kitchen, I choose to stay and defend my sport. Hence, I am sharing here for others who feel the same way.
emmasculator · 9/19/2016
Wow. I couldn't even finish the article. What a bullying, hectoring piece of half baked drivel. Laced with equal measures of ignorance and venom. Merciful heavens how the writing standards have fallen. These are the feminists who give others a really bad name. Jeez. Instead of celebrating how women AND MEN have come to find solace and community in pole, this person tears it down, because it is not how she would choose to empower herself. That is not feminism. That is ignorance, and when you spout ignorance and repackage it as empowerment you are the one is is the fraud and the oppressor. Not us.
Mechie · 9/19/2016
I sense a tremendous amount of jealousy from that "blogger"...I realized a lot of women, who don't pole but have A LOT of opinions on pole, are just jealous. And she's VERY wrong on the origin of pole dancing...is from CIRCUS.
emmasculator · 9/19/2016
Also don't these so-called feminist have bigger issues to solve....instead of attacking those they claim to support.
Queenofwands10009677 · 9/20/2016
Whaaaattt tf did I just read? And someone has never heard of stephen retchless or An Dre, two of the baddest male pole dancers EVER always in heels. Not dressing or acting being sexy does not make you immune to the patriarchy. Shall we take Saudi Arabia for example?
Veena · 9/20/2016
Ugh, how annoying! There will always be ignorant people out there..... What if we all put our energy into sharing posts on social media that show what pole is, both the sexy and the artistic, instead of putting time and energy into attempting to convince someone that they're wrong. What if we continue to show the world that it's a woman's choice to be as sexy or sexual as she wants! That yes, you can be a good mother, daughter, girlfriend, wife, PERSON and enjoy sexuality, that's how change begins! Not by bickering and arguing with those who clearly have no intention of looking at things in a new way, but by living a life that is kind and true to who you are. Go share your videos, post photos of yourself enjoying pole dance and show everyone that pole is awesome!
emmasculator · 9/20/2016
I made the mistake of asking the author why she was ignoring Steven Retchless or Blue Phoenix. She said it doesn't matter that men where heels, because they can never be empowered by them as they are already on top.....Because she can determine what empowers people and who feels empowered by what ...also thats like me saying white people can't do things that empower them because they're already on top and anything that I do that empowers me wouldn't empower them because they don't need it....-_- Senseless really
Lula Geddes · 9/20/2016
I also commented on this article and some related posts on fb. Then I regret it and think it was just a waste of time... Honestly, regarding the issue that sparked all this, meaning the LWAC's decision to pull out of an event because of a pole fitness demonstration, I think it was just a big mistake made by a fairly small organisation who has little knowledge or understanding of pole and has not thought through their decision; apparently it was a quick decision. The fact remains that they should know better and it is obviously a ridiculous choice... sure some of pole is part of the sex industry, but so what? most isn't... some Christian communities around the world practice female genital mutilation, most don't... are they going to refuse to run any event with Christian organisations? many women around the world are forced into marriage... would they refuse a wedding planner taking part in an event? Obviously the decision was neither here nor there, it was just silly, illogical and seems to lack any thorough understanding of the history of women's rights and feminism. As for the article, I actually doubt that the author is so little knowledgeable or lacks the capacity to use logic, it sounds more like she picked on something that would raise a debate and hence 'score' her points and get visibility. So in many ways, ignoring her might be the best thing to do.
33barbwire · 9/21/2016
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ef/65/a7/ef65a77c16526b2390208374954a7894.jpg Please look at this pic because that's my first response. First, the number of "quotation marks" that this "lady" uses to list "every pole term" makes me want to puke. Second, I will always swear that pole has made me a better feminist, because it helped me overcome growing up in a slut-shaming and sex-shaming culture, both of which are DEFINITELY forms of violence against women. (Never mind overcoming the hangups I used to have about strippers, etc.) I could go on, but I know I'm preaching to the choir here. What makes me sad about this article is it reinforces the realization I made that people hate being wrong - and they hate being wrong SO MUCH that they'll straight up refuse to listen to facts that contradict their precious opinions. Don't try to tell me "Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, opinions aren't right or wrong." When your opinions are based on ignorance, your opinions are wrong. If you have done some research about something, and decide you just don't agree with it, that's a valid opinion because at least you know what you're disagreeing with. This woman is a crappy feminist who, like Lula Geddes said, is probably just getting her 15 seconds of click-bait fame.
33barbwire · 9/21/2016
(sweet, I didn't know the link would actually post the pic - thought it would just be the link WOO!)
Lula Geddes · 9/21/2016
Funnily enough after writing that post yesterday I ended up going back to make comments on that article... I tried not to waste my time, but it really did bug me LOL. I always say do what I preach not what I do!
Lula Geddes · 9/21/2016
Actually now I think about it, I suggest that a more fun way to go about this is to keep posting the best pole dance videos of all times (male and female of course) in the comments of this article... who's in?
Claire Moon · 9/21/2016
(33barbwire I Love that picture hahahaha.) Anyway, Ugh. Feels. The number of quotes used shows she was writing emotionally and not at all with her journalism hat on (which I can't confirm she ever wears given I haven't read any of her other work)... it distracted me from even reading the piece of shit. I've only been in this community for two years so Im still very firey and frustrated with these sorts of issues. The veterans have had time to get all zen about it which I find difficult. I agree with other sentiments in this thread, that there will always be people who have a problem with us. This article really pushed the giant red button of our community though. Feminism is a gigantic part of what we are about songs hard to hear someone say the things she did. That being said I'm going to try and be like Veena, just gonna spam the internet with awesome pole. :D Love you all and I'm so happy to be part of such a fantastic community.
33barbwire · 9/22/2016
Y'all I had a brain-thought and I can't stop laughing about it. I think I'm gonna go troll the comments section on that article with Big Lebowski pics/gifs/videos.
dustbunny · 9/23/2016
@33barbwire "The Dude abides"... "Give me the money Lebowski! "... "Rug pissers, at least I'm house broken!" Lol 😂😂😂
Kellye Perkins · 9/23/2016
I have always done pole like a gymnastic fitness exercise only. Why do people have to view it any differently than balance beam or horizontal bars? From my perspective there is nothing inherently 'sexy' about it unless you want there to be.
Claire Moon · 9/24/2016
They have to view it as different from balance beam and other apparatus because many times it is! Your personal style and experience is absolutely valid and important, but to wonder why society has to see us as sexual is to ignore much of the pole community and to ignore the importance of sensuality as being ok and awesome (and I'm not trying to speak for you. I realize you might be perfectly fine with sexy/sensual pole). Its great to be gymnastic and barefoot , it's great to be sexy. I do both depending on my mood. We need to stop pretending like each other doesn't exist or like society's disdain is surprising. We live in a mysoginistic patriarchy; of course society's response is hateful. We've had this discussion ad nauseum as a community. Our origins in sex work is why the public has a hard time swallowing us and they have a hard time with it because people are misogynists (and they can politely fuck off). More general rant: Has anyone seen the new video that's now circulating facebook about the history of pole? I'm disappointed by all the shares it's gotten, especially right after the most recent assault on our feminism. This video Is the one that says pole originated from Chinese circus pole and Indian pole. That's not our pole. It's like saying bats evolved from birds bc they both have wings. We originated from girly shows in circus tents and strip clubs, both sexy. The video dilutes our history entirely and (perhaps indirectly) slut shames. Yes, we have been *influenced* by circus and malankhamb (i.e. Fonjis), but we are not *derived* from it. Saying or implying we come from Chinese or Indian pole is an attempt to distance us from strip clubs which is misdirected and unfeminist. It's sex worker-exclusive feminism (new words I recently learned) which I find highly uncool. I was completely guilty of a defensive posture when I started pole (now I'm just defensive in a different way!). I called it pole fitness, I lied about it, I hid my fuck-me pumps when mom came over. People should be correctly identified; say your not a stripper if you're not one and someone asks, tell people you only use the pole as a fitness apparatus if you don't use it to dance, but too many times people say these things with defensiveness or mild disgust for those that do strip or dance in heels. Correctly identify yourself and add "...but strippers are great and I dont have that skill set." Or "...but pole can be sexy and that's awesome." That is all.
33barbwire · 9/24/2016
Well I took to the comment thread to communicate visually, but we'll see if any of my comments get approved. My Lebowskiisms included: "Well, that's just like...your opinion, man." "Shut the f*ck up Donnie, you're out of your element." "This aggression will not stand, man!"