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Worlds
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I would say that the jade was not planned. She did not even get the move set. Typically she goes into it, pauses a few seconds and then does her drop stopping 6" from the ground. She bounced on her back so I would say no. I still can’t believe she walked away from both and taught the next day!
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I watched Jenyne’s vid and think my heart skipped a beat when she hit the floor from the jade… that she, alethea and other very experienced girls had so many issues with grip is quite frightening – so glad none of them were injured!
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I just watched Jenynes video. OMG. That must have hurt. The jade fall was definately not supposed to end on the floor like this. And the fall in the end?! OUCH! :S Im just surprised how she managed to continue and you couldnt even see that she hurt herself. She must be really good at falling correctly :O
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seeing how several of the pros have a problem with pole conditions at a HUGE competition is really freaking me out!
https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_eek.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cry.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_shaking.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_puke_r.gifi really want to always be in control of cleaning any pole that i use… after seeing this i don’t trust other people to be pole cleaners https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_thumbdown.gif
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Hey Mary Ellen,
Just in response,
I think it is quite fair to judge the judges. Sure, its not an easy job but I mean, they volunteered to do it! And they should be professional. Here is what i ask myself about judges: What are their credentials? What is the judging based on?
If the judging is based on personal preference, well that is not a fair competition. Yes, Art is subjective, but in a competition we are also judging technicality, and if you look at the spatchcock and it is the only one you’ve seen or it is more perfect then someone else’s, you are going to score them higher based on difficulty and execution, regardless of whether you like the move or not. there are plenty of pole moves that are not necesssarily pretty. but this is not the point as a judge, you should strive not to be biased.
So lets see the judging standards then!Now…all the girls were good. but there were some who were simply better, as a complete package.
and yes i do think there was something fishy about Oona not making top 13…
I just wanted to express that because I think if there are people in the pole community who feel that something is not right, we should speak out about it so that it doesn’t happen in the future.Those are my thoughts, no hard feelings at all, its all water under the bridge at this point it doesn’t really matter, but I think all this debate about judging and unfairness that has been going on might pave the way for the demand of better/structured/transparent/governing judging standards for pole competitions, which would only improve and advance the community I think…
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So Stephanie…you are saying that the competition was fixed…that the winners were chosen based on politics, money or "who’s girl" they were? That the judges intentionally and unfairly chose the winner without regard to any rules or guidelines but simply because they personally liked or were friends with someone or were told who they had to pick by the organizers?
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I didn’t say the competition was fixed or that the winner didn’t deserve to win,
I am simply trying to understand the choice of the top 13. Maybe there was some unprofessionalism. i dont know. was there?
Im just vocalising/writing out what others have already said…im not the only one.
i figured no one wanted to say anything on here because they didnt want to be confrontational or something.And I stand by my questioning for reasons Im choosing not to disclose because there is no point and since i don’t have proof on paper I’d rather move on than dig holes, but I think i have a right to question it. but you know, i’ve been part of this pole communit for 6 years and i only want to see it succeed and improve. That is the only reason i would challenge anything of this nature, because i dont usually say much. It does not come from a jealous, threatened, mean natured, catty, bitchy, or agressive place. On the contrary.
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Stephanie…see I actually didn’t think that was what you were saying!
However, some people have blatantly stated those exact things that I wrote above. That on top of duragatory name calling!
I understand that a lot of people have questions about the valuation system – that’s fair. However a number of people are not asking respectfully but instead insinuating that comps are fixed.
I find that upsetting and I think that it only makes the situation worse! People aren’t just asking questions..they are making snide comments and innuendos at the same time! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif
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As far as I know Empy….no one has made those kinds of remarks here on SV though. I know I read something that was posted to Facebook about Drama and accusations or something to that affect. I wasn’t even aware people were upset about any of the results. I also wasn’t sure which competition was causing all the drama! I’m always so pleased that the members are thoughtful people.
I agree that judges have it rough….but I also don’t always understand their decisions either. Not just with the worlds comp but many others as well https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif Its all so new and still working out the kinks.
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Now I have not watched all of the preliminary performances but I just watched Oona’s and her execution was flawless. There was only one thing that stood out to me but I have no idea what the judges specifically were looking for. Based on what I saw I would also question specifically what she did or did not do that kept her out of the finals. Hopefully she received that feedback from the judges.
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Oona’s performance was amazing – no doubt.
It’s also completely different when you are present watching a performance live. As I pointed out earlier…it may not necessarily have been that she wasn’t good enough but who she was up against within HER round. Since they do tiered rounds with the top 3 from each round going to finals – if she was in a different tier she may have made it to finals.
According to the website in her tier she was beat out by Rafaela, Zoraya and Crystal Lai. That doesnt mean she wasn’t among the top 13 but that she didn’t beat those 3. Now, maybe everyone thinks she was better than the 3 of them too?
And in judging there is always the element of actually being there which makes it completely different. I heard several people say that they were brought to tears by Jenyne’s performance. Jenyne’s video was great but it didn’t bring me anywhere near to crying. Being present you feel and see things differently.
There are many factors that can affect it, including personal taste of each judges – they are after all human.
That doesn’t mean that competitors shouldn’t know the valuation for a competition – they should. They should also be responsible to ASK before they compete if it’s not given to them. For me, the first questions I would have if I disagreed with the results is how does scoring work – not did the judges do something wrong.
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I’d probably say that the proof is in the pudding. lol
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Well definitely the answers to questions may in fact lead to more questions right? I just like to presume the best rather than the worst. We have so many critics of what we do to begin with the last thing we need is to doubt anything about our world! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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Without understanding what each competition requires it is difficult for ANYONE to "judge the judges". I did not know that they set it up to choose 3 from each group; I just thought they were put into groupings so that it was more manageable for all concerned. And again, I have not viewed all of the performances.
Another instance of people forming an opinion without having all of the facts.
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I got that from the website but even that was confusing to understand Chemmie.
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Dance is such a tricky medium to judge. Everyone has moves that they like and don’t. Some of us like a more *dancy* performance…others like a more trick based style – so judging strictly on personal opinions or preferences – whether perceived or not, will always come into question. And while I am not a huge fan of the whole *pole in the Olympics wave* I do think that if there are going to be so many high level competitions it might be nice for there to be a set amount of items/tricks/components etc that make up the judging process, much along the lines of gymnastics. Points for hitting certain items: strength moves, spins, flexibility, dance…etc. Artistic flair should most definitely factor into it as well – but if there was some sort of standard it might alleviate some of the questions everyone has.
But honestly who knows LOL maybe there was some sort of judging procedures/guidelines that I am just completely unaware of https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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and actually I’d like to correct something that was said: 3 ladies out of each group of 11/12 were picked except for Oona’s group, in which 4 ladies were picked: Zoraya, Raffaela, Crystal, and Anastasia.
Its true that we do not have all the facts here (ie judging criteria) but that doesn’t mean I can’t form an opinion based on what I have seen, and I did watch the entire finals, as well as all the preliminary videos posted on youtube.
I think if you believe in anything blindly it is foolish. Faith and Doubt go hand in hand for a balanced perspective. if we dont have some "doubt" in our world just to keep things in check and challenge ourselves then surely we will fail as a community.
a degree of "Doubt" can be quite healthy….I think it would be foolish of the pole community to be completely trusting and believe that everyone has the best intentions…because our "world" is just the same as everyone else’s world. it is not perfect, and people are not perfect. people are selfish, in the pole world and the real world, and its important not to be naive about it or ignore it, or think that everyone has our best interests at heart.
Its fine to presume the best, i understand what you are saying here and i strive to do the same. however, im not just going to say nothing if something doesn’t seem right. and especially in our community, we should strive for honesty and transparency.
Clearly if enough of us have questions about it then its not clear or transparent enough and we need to understand better and improve the system.
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AH…I hadn’t realized 4 were chosen in that group. Interesting….and that must have been one heck of a group of competitors.
I just want to emphasize that everyone has a right and even a responsibility to question…it’s how it’s done that makes a difference.
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slightly linked to this i think is the question of judge feedback. Friends who competed in national comps (in Europe) requested feedback to find out where they went wrong and what they could do to improve. The feedback was poor to say the least. ‘such a doll’ was one judge’s comment, and ‘see through costume’ was another’s. Such comments can barely be seen as constructive. It makes us lose faith in judging and competition. It also took quite a number of months (yes, MONTHS) for this ‘feedback’ to be emailed through.
They were told they would be marked on dance performance/ musical interpretation and complexity of moves but there was no mention of how well they managed either of these in the feedback, with the exception of 1 reference to a handspring which was described, fairly, as ‘hesitant.’Surely if marking is being done fairly and not just based on subjective opinions there would be actual constructive feedback available? There were required moves; even comments on these, something as simple as feet flexed / hesitant / lopsided would give someone the information require to improve themselves for the next time.
of course what’s done is done. things in the past are gone. but if there is discontent in our community, there are issues that need to be addressed by people organising competitions and competing.
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Hi. For those of you wondering about the valuation and the judging. I did get all information about that in an email from the competition because I was supposed to compete but couldnt make it becasue I didn’t have the money to go =/
I put the judging criteria on my blog if you are interested https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
Here it is: https://www.studioveena.com/blogs/posts/EvaRut
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Eva, thank you so much for sharing this information. I think I shed a lot of light as to what the judges were looking for!!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_sunny.gif
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Thanks so much for sharing this.
I am competiing in MIss Pole Dance Australia on Friday October 15th (this week…eeek) and, although I am not intending on changing anything at this stage, it is a great guide for a last minute ‘tweaking’
I have some photos and info up on Facebook if you are interested
http://www.facebook.com/Joanna.Miss.Pole.Dance -
Not to sound rude but that reads more like a beauty pageant. Really puts a perspective on this competition.
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I disagre. I dont think its like a beauty pageant at all. The whole of the performance matters. And the right look that is clothing, body language and great personality on stage can take a performance to a higher level. These things do matter when you are a performer. Imagine someone like Felix doing her dance in ugly or cheap slutty clothes looking grumpy or constipated but still moving the same doing the same great routine. It would just not be as good. There are so many things that count besides strength and variety of moves and ability to move on the pole. Its the whole experience. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
I personally hate seeing girls that are good pole dancers in a performance or competition when they’re costumes don’t match the music at all, or they just wear the same stuff as they wear to practice and they don’t dance to the music and don’t smile or have any personality while performing or just have a blank face. I don’t care about those things at practise. But pole dancing is dancing and its an art at the same time it is a sport. Its not just a sport like weight lifting or bicycling. And therefore you want everything to match to make the performance more enjoyable and try to amaze the audience and give them a good theatrical and artistic experience while you show off your strength and grace. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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I was not talking about the actual performance, I was talking about everything else. You have to be this "personna" from the moment you step foot on the property (if not as soon as you apply) for the competition.
Personality, on and off the stage during the length of the whole competition with judges, spectators, friends and other contestants.
Appearance,
clothing,
costumes,
hair/makeup on and off the stage.I also find this part laughable considering all of the issues that they had with performers slipping during the competition:
The head judge reserves the right to stop any performance at any time, due to either: a candidate’s or spectator’s health and safety is at risk and/or the explicit nature of the candidate’s performance
But this is my take on it. I have been in beauty pageants when I was younger and the part about how you look and act the entire weekend played a big part of how well you scored. Forget being yourself, you had to be this plastic person in order to place.
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