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What would you do? A libel situation
Hello Ladies & Gents,
I have a slight situation I would LOVE your advice on. If you are an avid veener who follows Akron posts you may remember part of this situation.
A while ago I attended a studio, that shall remain nameless, for one class. The instructor taught for about 15 minutes then refused to teach. Due to this and a other incidents that happened in my time their I could not suggest the studio to anyone. There was a veener coming in to town looking for a place to practice. I made my suggestions and said that I could not recommend said studio. I did not list my numerous reasons why, just that I could not recommend it.
Well as google is wonderful they found the post and bashed my on this forum. Veena being awesome removed the posts and closed the forum. Shortly after I noticed my name on their website in the F.A.Q section. They call me about by name claim to have trained me and insinuate that I was not up to par. At first I took for flattery that they obviously they want to lay some claim to my awesomeness( I may not be a competition poler but I am a DAMN good teacher and dedicate my life to pole). I could ramble and bitch but I will continue.
Lately it had been getting under the skin. What they posted is libel and they have no right to use my personal name. I attended one class where the teacher did not even touch the pole to teach, this does not qualify as training. It bothers me because it ruins my credibility as an instructor and I in no way want to be associated with their instructors or how they do business.
Obviously the owner has no intent of removing it as they have made several edits to it recently. I contacted their web-host but they will not get involved in the matter. The owner of the studio I work for in cleveland considered submitting a cease & desist since she also does not want to be associated with them. However, I really do not want to take legal action just yet. That involves money. I teach full time and just graduated from college, so that is something I do not have. Where I have heard she has an endless supply.
So my question is what would you do? My students know that I do not teach or train there and we do attract somewhat of a different market. I openly tell students whom I train with and what my qualifications are. However, I do not want students that go there and have a similar experience to mine to associate me or anyone else for that matter with them. I do not want them to get the perception that all studios are alike and give up on pole, of course that is their ignorance.
Ugggh. I really want to rant but I am keeping it all in. I am very proud of myself.
Peace, Love, & Pole,
Jessie
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27 Replies
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Holy typos batman! I am so sorry I can not type. I am just so mad I am actually shaking & sick to my stomach.
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I found the studio you speak of, and the website, and what is said in the FAQ section. I really don't know what you should do aside from legal action if they are going to be so completely petty about the situation. I, too, have had issues with a studio. The instruction was not the problem in my case, complete lack of communication and disrespect was, and I was 'kicked out' of the studio for expressing my unhappiness with the situation here on the forum (without naming names or the studio, and I even tried not to sound mean about it!). I love how, instead of taking these complaints seriously and fixing the issue at hand, they take the high road, stomp their feet like children, and refuse to admit any fault in the situation. I know how frustrating it can be when women in power situations like this use their power in the most immature way possible. I guess I'm just writing to let you know, I feel your pain. Hopefully they'll get over it and grow up. In the meantime, just take a deep breathe and know that you are the bigger person here.
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Jess, do you have any lawyer friends or know of any lawyer friends who can/will write a letter for you no charge? You can also see if Akron has a free legal clinic where you can get said letter drafted.
I am not sure why they are using your name and this is downright wrong. If they are unwilling to budge with you contacting them unfortunately legal needs to get involved.
I would also try contacting MaryEllyn (ETED) and seeing if she has any advice. She really knows the business end of things and can possibly assist you.
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Does Roxy have a lawyer that she has worked with at the studio that might be able to help?
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hm. i researched this online a bit because i was pissed FOR you! that's awful.
it seems like a nice workaround to getting a lawyer and filing a cease and desist order oculd be to send information about the libel to the website host– usually it's against their terms and conditions and they might suspend the site unil the information is removed! http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-remove-false-libelous-information-about-yourself-online/
i hope this works out for you! =(
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@Jlynn87 – If you are considering legal action you should never post this in a public forum. This weakens your position. Consider that if the user is following the forums they now know for a certainty that a cease and desist letter is almost certainly a bluff and even if you do take them to court you lack the funds to pay a lawyer for more than a couple days.
From a different perspective, libel and slander cases are quite often more trouble than they are worth. You generally have to prove intent, and also have to prove that the statements are false. It becomes a he said she said situation that does nothing for the reputation of either party.
The best response in almost every case is just to ignore it, rise above it. As a wise man once said, "There is no such thing as bad publicity".
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@Jlynn87 – If you are considering legal action you should never post this in a public forum. This weakens your position. Consider that if the user is following the forums they now know for a certainty that a cease and desist letter is almost certainly a bluff and even if you do take them to court you lack the funds to pay a lawyer for more than a couple days.
From a different perspective, libel and slander cases are quite often more trouble than they are worth. You generally have to prove intent, and also have to prove that the statements are false. It becomes a he said she said situation that does nothing for the reputation of either party.
The best response in almost every case is just to ignore it, rise above it. As a wise man once said, "There is no such thing as bad publicity".
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I have already tried their web-host :-(. On our website I posted that I was not affliliated with any of the studios but the fore mentioned after stating the two studios I work at. Of course our website is under construction because we moved to a larger studio and are under new ownership. It is a bit frusterating. Can't we all just get a long for the most part N.E.O studios are pretty supportive and loving of each other or we at least do not step on each other toes. Of course we have the fabulous Chemgoddess who unites us all, <3 you Pam. Also I have never in my life met the owner. Call me old fashioned but when you open up a studio you usually contact the other studios in the area and at least meet them.
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To my knowlege, a cease and desist letter would have been a good next step…usually not expensive or even free but then again, it's only considered "request" unless it is issued from a judge/court.
However as webmaster posted you've probably lost any ability to make an impression by posting about it – especially since they are already familiar with this forum.
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On the positive side: the fact that your name is in bigger letters than any of the questions in their FAQ gives the impression that you are one of the most important and influential pole teachers in the pole community! If I were a new poler I'd be like, "Wow, that Jessica must be a really famous pole-dancer to be mentioned right at the top of the FAQ. I wonder why those guys don't like her?" And then I'd look you up, and see that you didn't say anything bad about them on your site, and no-one else said anything bad about you and go, "Wow, she's so famous she has hype backlash! I wonder if I can get into her course?"
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I'm not quite understanding why the need to use your name in their claim is even necessary? It's common knowledge within the pole community that instructors will go to other pole studios, buy DVDs, take workshops from well known polers in the industry, read books/forums/blogs, watch pole videos….the list is endless of the types of research instructors can and will do to further their knowledge. Just because you're an instructor doesn't mean you cease to be a student. And when attending another studio, you should respect that studio as a student and NOT advertise yourself to that studio's clients of who you are and anything promoting your own financial gain within your own business endeavors. That studio should also honor you as a student and abide by the fact that you are attending their studio and you should recieve the same respect of every other student. I don't know the depths of law but I don't believe you can post someone's name or photo stating they are a student at your studio without their consent. Also I would think there would be a confidentiality issue here as well. I certainly wouldn't want my personal business of where I go to work out for ftness- ESPECIALLY a pole dancing work out being known publicly for anyone and everyone. I personally advertise that myself but if I were a more conservative person with a more conservative profession that I could be risking because of my extracurricular activities outside of work, I'd be pretty upset with this studio for the blatant unjustified use of my name in the way they are using it. It's very well known that employers use the internet to get information on their employees. I'm not trying to get off the point and on a completely unrelated what-if story but the truth of the matter is laws were created for a reason and it might be a good idea to research the laws within your state and get your facts together. As far as never meeting the owner, maybe a communication that does not involve email with the studio owner is in order? The best option would be to pursue things as much as possible in a nonlegal action. Exhaust all your options before resorting to legal action first.
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OMG, I cannot believe they have that on there! That is so unbelievably unprofessional! Not to mention the poor grammar and typos in that little segment of theirs.
I would request that they take it down, with the proposition that the pole community needs to be united to become more mainstream and accepted. The bickering within the community only holds us back.
It is true that as an instructor, you take classes from other instructors. I did all the time as a bellydancer. You never advertise that you are an instructor in the class or vice versa. Uh. I wish I had better advice for you. Good luck.
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Kobajo-she only attended the studio ONCE just to check it out and now they are stating that she was trained there. That would be like you going on vacation and visiting a studio and then them putting on their site that you regularly go there for training. I have been to pretty much every studio within a few hours drive of my home (with the exception of this one) but none of them would say that they trained me. (As a side note, I did try contacting this studio several times and never received a call back. This is the only reason I have never been there)
I think this would also be a lot different if JLynn got along with the studio but this is also not the case. This pretty much went up as a retaliation against a post she made here on SV as to why she would not recommend said studio. Every one is entitled to their opinion and both Jess and I will tell you straight out but will also follow up with "but you should go and see it yourself".
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First off let me say thank you to everyone. You are all absolutely amazing!
As far as my claims of legal action if I was to take send a ceist and desist I would be ready for an all out legal battle as libel is a very difficult thing to prove in court. Internet law has some blurred boundaries. This is one of the few things that stuck with my from public relations. I also hardly doubt they follow the forums, as she hasnt been seen on here since. Since they endorse the idea that instructors do not need to expand and practice unless they suck, at least that is was I get from reading their website, they do not feel anyone else has anything to offer.As stated by multiple women here practicing with other people and being a student is something that is great for teachers. It expands our knowledge, opens our minds, and can be a humbling experience. As Pam said I take classes whereever and whenever I can even if it is a basics. I have learned so many new things and to think that people have nothing to offer is foolish. And there is also an ass for every seat diffrenet people look for different things in instructors. Some people want to learn to booty shake. I look like an epileptic, they would be better off somewhere else or for me to pay my little brother to come teach someone :-p. On that note can some teach me thow to booty pop or interested in teaching a workshop in akron lol
Ugh and in my post on here I simply stated I would not recommend them. I even put that I if the practiconer was advance that I would not recommend myself. I only teach to an intremediate level, depending on your deffinition of intermediate. Ughh. Some people are so immature.
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OMG. What a poop head. Her whole website is bad. "She can teach advance moves." Really? No grammar check at all? Ok, getting off my English high horse. Which I ride side saddle. ; P
Anyway, I've had a bad experience with someone who does the same darn thing to people by claiming she's taught them. A friend of mine went to one of her classes and came back saying she was completely crazy and my friend was scared that the woman had her information now. Personally, I'd say leave it alone because the quote I saw was complimentary of you as a teacher. If people go there and hate it, I guarantee they won't think bad of you…they'll probably forget your name was mentioned. If they do remember, they'll likely realize that the statement wasn't true…especially since you aren't really quoted. I don't blame Yelp posters or even remember them recommending a place if I don't like the food. If my close friend did, then I'd go to them and let them know about my experience. So if someone knows you, they'll probably call you before taking a class (at which point you can set the record straight) and definitely call you after if they go and hate it (again you can set them straight.)
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Well.. at the very least, you should try to contact the company, and ask them to remove your "testimonial". Have you tried just calling and talking to the owner?
And since I am not familiar with the situtation, I googled and found this:
"Jessica Rawson (pole instructor)
Jessica Rawson is an instructor at another pole dance studio in another city but often comes to APD to get training from our instructors. She recently posted a great review on Veena website as well as in the Akron Beacon Journal.
There are dancers who come from all over including clubs to get instruction.
If your a pole dance instructor who needs additional training, our instructors will help you become a better instructor.
If you are interested in taking up pole dancing or pole aerobics as a career, we can help you as well as we have helped many great dancers today."
(Am I right in assuming this is you>?)
If they don't, just write up a google review, yelp review, yahoo review, etc… stating that you are NOT in any way affiliated with this company. Then at least they are the ones who look foolish by trying to capitalize off your name.
And if worse comes to worse.. you may have to go to court.
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In the Akron Beacon Journal? Really? Why can't I find this?
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Because it doesn’t exist kind of like my good referral on veena
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Jessica…a cease and desist is simply a letter of request. When sent by an attorny it does not imply a court order…merely a request to comply. You are not obligated to move forward with an expensive legal battle or proof of internet law.
However many people will comply with a letter from an attorney like this thinking it will lead to a legal battle and not realizing it's not a court order.
Since it's relatively cheap, if this bothers you enough to ask advice, you may wish to consider this approach.
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ps…on the other hand…maybe venting on here was enough? If it helps any…that would burn me if it were my position and I knew the history was not a friendly one!
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I find it very odd that they would use your name like this.. it's not rude or demeaning or really inflammatory.. it just insinuates that you go there every once in a while for training and that you gave them good reviews.. It's just so weird!!!
I really think you should just send them a nice formal letter (without an attorney) stating that they do not have your permission to use your name, or to imply that you "approve" of their teaching techniques, or to state that you have given positive reviews of their business.
But either way, I agree with Empyrean, by venting on here you have let pole dancers know what's really the truth. And the pole dancing community is a close knit family!
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It just frusterates me and it seems like this happens a lot in the pole community. Just today I saw a claim from a studio in a different state claiming that all the studio owners in that city had trained there. I happen to know this as false as the one trained with Fawnia. Of course they didn't call her out by name. It really is odd o well.
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Wow sorry to hear about all this drama. I once read a quote that I really believe in and it totally relates.
“A teacher that is no longer a student is neither.”It’s sad that people have to twist things around. Whenever I see deals on groupon or one of those sites, I buy it. I reallllly like to learn from other teachers but stuff like this makes me wonder. I was once accused of spying when in all actuality I just want to keep growing. I don’t wanna piss anyone off by going to their studio becuz i have my own. Can’t we all just get along? Lol
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dont bother putting your name more reviews on google ect ect… if someones wants to hire you for something and sees this, not cool to see, whwtever the reason is , it will look childish to them…. and they wont care who started what and who trained where . (from a business point of view)
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I don't know much about legal matters but I would have to agree with JBStarryeyed girl about writing the polite formal letter. I would also encourage your students to write their own reviews about their experiences at your studio. That way if someone were researching the two studios, they would see all the fab reviews about you as a superior instructor.
Personally, I rely heavily on public reviews when it comes to my choices. I will go where I see the most good reviews and usually seek out the person mentioned in the review for services.
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