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To kick or not to kick! Interested in others view!!
So this is a subject quite close to my heart! I work for a studio that doesn’t feel the same so I teach my students the kicking as it’s on the syllabus but it honestly is a bit soul destroying for me!! I try to encourage them to kick as little as possible and get them to condition dead lifting all the time but still. I’m a guilty party! I want my job so go with it….. :'(
This said I don’t let them swing their whole body to launch themselves up the pole!! No no no!!!
Anyway, interesting read, I don’t agree with all the points she raises but the general idea I do.
I’m interested why my fellow Veenas think!!
http://unitedpoleartists.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/why-are-you-letting-your-students-kick.html?m=1 -
18 Replies
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Ugh, thats so hard.
I have had similar situations at work… luckily none of them are harmful or dangerous… but I’m a dentist and I work in a few offices.. one of them, (the one I’ll gradually transition into full time as my patients increase) is perfect. At another office we use materials or labs I just don’t love. I would never do anything but my best work, but sometimes I want to do things MY WAY and I hate having to work within someone else’s rules. It’s very hard when you’ve been trained to do something one way, and someone is making you do it another.
My patients are laying down with their mouths open helpless trusting me so I would NEVER do anything I didn’t believe was the right thing… but it’s a bit different because your students are in control of their own bodies…
I’m not sure what you can do. It seems like you’re trying to educate your students on what is right, but still half teaching the kick. At least your giving them the knowledge that not kicking is better.
I’d say talk to the person in charge… but my feeling is this the same person told you that your non-twisted grip ironX was dangerous.
I’m sure someone here who is more experienced with pole studios and what it means to be an instructor can give you better advice. I just wanted to say a big loud “Ugh!” for you.
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(that was you who had issues with the studio about your ironX right?)
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Yes it was me!!
I’m just assuming they are not against the kicking as it’s in the beginners level 2 syllabus and the ‘prep’ is controlled kicks into tucks etc but I’m of the personal opinion that unless a student is particularly strong they aren’t going to be ready to invert after a weekly hour lesson for 12 weeks….most come from no exercise background at all!!!Obviously everyone is different but yeah.
In our handbook the invert prep states not to use momentum to swing upside down but also says, swing and kick the outside leg up and followed by the inside, allow the body to swing back etc etc it also says though to engage your arms and pull yourself upside down so it’s in a way very contradictory!
I think it comes down to the individual instructor, you should be able to spot when a person is performing ‘kicks’ in a controlled manner or not, I mean… I don’t dead lift every time I invert!!! I use a bit of a swing sometimes but I know that I’m fully engaged and in control of my movement.So I dont fully agree with the no kicking I just think all students shoul be ready and taught to be in control, many a times I’ve taken over a class or covered for some one and their ‘intermediate’ girls are swinging all over the place and are just not safe inverting but are still expecting me to teach them the Gemini or butterfly lol I’m like ….. Errrrrrrrr!! Let’s do some spins!!
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Reading the handbook again, it’s clear to ME that the studio wants it students doing inverts in a controlled way but from my experience this isn’t always how it’s taught to them
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It also sounds to me like they don’t want momentum being used, but worded it poorly.
Words like swing and kick imply momentum… But I think they just was the outside leg guiding the student to the pole. I think it can’t hurt to ask for clarifications, and if actually kicking is not within their guidelines maybe they can tell all teachers for clarity/uniformity…
I hate all that kind of stuff because yes, most times it’s easier just to keep your mouth shut and let everyone teach the way they feel comfortable… But sometimes it’s good to get things off your chest.
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Yes the wording can be confusing – I teach a strength-building prep from the very first lesson, I teach leg-positions from the floor for muscle memory, I teach visualisation techniques… but when it comes to their first invert, I teach a step-and-tuck (it’s not a swing or a kick). Some of them I’ll just get them to lift from their first time, but as long as they are showing good stability in lifting up into a tuck, I’ll teach them a step just to get a bit more lift into the tuck and turn over.
Check out this article “in defense of momentum”
http://acrobaticpole.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/in-defense-of-momentum.html -
Oooooooo what a great blog!!!
Yes!!! I can agree with this!! In the end I guess it comes down to the control, if a student is engaging the right muscles, using the correct techniques and hand/leg placements, a bit of momentum isn’t going to really hurt?
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Most people will use momentum their first few times without even thinking about it. I remember my first silks lesson and I could dead lift an inverted straddle like nobody’s business and I remember being a few feet off the ground and using a bit of a swing into the invert out of fear. I know students who can dead lift shoulder mounts but when they on stage the nervousness kicks in and they use momentum to get up. I don’t think it is a bad thing so long as they are using proper shoulder engagement. Using momentum in an invert can be gorgeous. I’ve seen many a professional dancer “run” at the pole and lift effortlessly into choppers.
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Yep…huge difference between safe and unsafe momentum. I love to stand away from the pole and use that momentum to chopper or handspring up, vs a newbie using any means to get upside down (cringe).
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Teehee, I was narcissistically checking my blog stats and backtracked to here. 🙂 Thanks for sharing my article Robyn, you’re the best!! And thanks for the kind words Amiloo.
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I’m only a student not an instructor. my studio does not let us kick. but in the beginning you can gently sweep your leg up. you can definitely tell a difference between kicking and just moving the leg upwards. do you think maybe a good way to tell if your students are in control is if they can do multiple side pole hold knee tucks without touching the ground? when I was finally able to do those, I knew I had better control and was ready to do an invert. also, my studio teaches inverts by first laying on the ground to teach muscle memory of where your legs go. then we sit on the ground, come up into bridge position and invert from sitting. third, we would be almost standing but not standing completely. hips in front of pole , then invert. finally, we would do standing invert. we would not move to the next level until we were secure in the current invert we were working on. I’m so glad she taught this way because it gave me something to work on and I could feel myself progressing. I don’t know if other studios teach this way? If I had to wait till I could completely deadlift into an invert I would be very discouraged if I had no “in-between” steps to work on. Honestly, I was doing inverts from sitting/bridge position for quite a while. Invert were really difficult for me. I do see students from other studios who are intermediate or higher levels who kick into inverts and when they are asked to try without kicking they are unable to invert. Kicking will give you a false sense of strength and control.
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I love that blog post about momentum! I thoroughly agree. I have seen a beginner flinging herself up into attempted inverts and bashing into the pole, it looked really dangerous and just made me cringe, but I reckon for the most part a little bit of a kick/sweep/push off is okay, and even necessary. My inverts are getting stronger now but I still can’t deadlift, and I’ve been poling on and off for two years now. I agree with the others in that if I’d had to wait until I could deadlift before inverting I’d probably have gotten bored and given up!
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I teach inverts as a two part process, first the upper body placement then add a step and sweep of the leg. Honestly using zero momentum is very hard on the upper body and most students can’t do this with out feeling too much strain on the upper back. Kicking in not good because of the force that’s behind it and usually the upper body placement is not correct when kicking is involved because the goal is, just get up there!
I feel slight momentum using a step and sweep of the outside leg should be taught first along with a strong understanding of a Side Pole Hold. If you’re side pole hold is solid it will save you from banging into the pole and jerking when lifting and sweeping the leg.
Dead lifting is HARD and those new to inverts should not be expected to invert that way.
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I agree with Veena, and I’ve been using her step-and-sweep method for pretty much every single invert I’ve ever done. Some people just progress slower with certain moves, and the basic invert is one of those I don’t take to easily. This is pretty much the ONLY way I can get my rear up there!
Jumping, also, can cause a heck of a lot of impact on muscles that aren’t ready for it. If you jump, you’re essentially transferring all of that momentum up, and into your shoulders. It stops there, with quite the jolt. This can strain, and even tear muscles… and is, for me, not an effective method of getting up anyways! I’ve never been able to jump my feet up over my head.
It’s really unfortunate that your studio is so ambiguous with their wording. Perhaps you should speak to them about it? -
I agree it must be ok to sweep, or even gently “kick”. As long as the upper body stays in place and isn’t swinging out from the pole in an uncontrolled manner in basic inverts and shoulder mounts. If it wouldn’t be allowed to use momentum in those moves, then why should it be allowed in for example handsprings? No one deadlifts in the beginning (or ever) into those moves.
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I have read a lot about chopper before invert and I can say with experience that’s not a great idea. I have a lot of students who come from silks for example and on silks there isn’t a basic invert as we know it. What mean is you chopper up and the first thing you are going to do is wrap around the apparatus and “tie in” as I call it. When I’ve trained aerialist most them day one can chopper lift over into a straddle but they have no idea where to there legs. The basic inverted leg position – I call it the upside down stand- is very necessary as a default muscle memory for advanced work and safety. Knowing how to place outside in front and inside in back is paramount to learning leg hangs, butterflies and reverse climbs. It’s also important to understand and be able to perform this for handstand work against the pole.
The trouble is that there is not a defined moment in time within the industry where we know its safe for someone to invert. Often times studios will introduce it too early in order to keep students excited. We also rarely explain the difference between a trick in progress – something that shouldn’t be performed in a routine and trick that’s ready to go. Then we see these scary looking inverts and assume they’ve been taught incorrectly or that they can’t invert when the reality is it is a move likely not suited for performing because its not 100%.
Moves need to be taught to individuals based on their level of ability. When I train aerialist we often start with climbing and inverting technique because that is their skill set. It doesn’t negate their need to learn basics by any means but by giving them something they relate to it holds their interest and challenges them. In fact a lot of aerialist tell me they feel pole is harder because they can’t use as much swinging and momentum as they on silks.
Finally there is a rediculous desire in the world on pole to “get upside down” because they think that’s the most impressive thing, it’s really not compared to the amount of gorgeous spins, transitions and upright poses that are generally simpler and conducive to gaining strength to invert.
As pointed out we use momentum in other things and do not question it. I’m of the opinion a reverse grab with the strong engagement is far more dangerous than an invert without proper engagement yet we still teach reverse grab without writing about its dangers. Instead of saying momentum is wrong we need to be teaching quick muscle engagement because that’s what’s happening. I’ve taught loads in handsprings in my day and 90% of the damage with that is getting up there and not knowing how to stabilize yourself. We can teach these principles the first day of class without ever leaving the ground!
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I agree with the momentum being kind of a necessary evil so to speak when you are a beginner who rally wants to get up there no matter wht it takes but the key is to then teach to use that control so not to injure yourself. It took me a while to not use a lot of momentum when first learning shoulder mount. I just wanted to do it! now ,I understand the importance of control and core strength. My instructor did stress controlled inversions and had a hard time with students that were sloppy inverters!!
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Very important blog! I was a gymnast and I would have gotten no where on floor and bars without momentum. The key is “controlled momentum”!!
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