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Pole Dance Competitions for Plus size dancers
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I agree that plus dancers are fully capable of competing with others, as demonstrated by Aileen Vegas winning multiple titles in 2013. I like that distinct divisions give light to the unique contributions of certain cultures. They do not always seek to give an unfair advantage or pity points to those “less abled” in some way.
Ironically, when birds of a feather flock together, the very trait that usually singles them out individually becomes obsolete because they ALL have that shit, allowing them to focus on real shit like who’s getting drunk first when they fly to South Beach for the winter. What I have also noticed is that the CROWD also stops giving two fucks about what makes them different and respects them for just being bomb at what they do.
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Interesting that you are from Brooklyn. I am a new poler so maybe the competition world is different but the one thing I have noticed is how diverse the poling community is. So diverse that I would find it hard to categorize a single group of polers. If I had to divide, it would be on gender.
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Twinkle Toes here!
I much prefer the leveled competition model. I think it puts the responsibility in the hands of the competitor to categorize their level based on set guidelines. I am considered a plus poler but, as a male, I’m expected to be as strong and as accelerated in learning curve as my tinier male counterparts (and when we talk about people not looking like you backstage, I win the internets). Though I don’t compete often, the idea of competing in a non-segmented male category in a large scale competition (DC exempt as it’s based more on entertainment value and crowd pleasing and less on death defying tricks) frustrates me. One could argue that you should compete to have fun and I always do (backstage at DC is LIVE). In the interest of even standing a chance competitively, though, has to be leveled as every trick can be somewhat stocked into a level category (it would not make since for me to do a level 1. It’s no shade. It’s being responsible and fair). In this way, it neutralizes the competition and size does not matter.
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I wear a size 14 and am 5’11” so by most standards I am considered plus size, though I really don’t view myself that way. I am also competiting in my first comp, Pacfic Pole Competition.
So I love the idea of Dangerous Curves being a plus size only competition and plus size being a self evaluation. I completely agree with what Roz wrote; “… when birds of a feather flock together, the very trait that usually singles them out individually becomes obsolete because they ALL have that shit …” and think that is part of the reason plus size specific events are so important. First it is helpful to take size out of the performance equation and second, more polers need plus size polers to look to and be inspired by.
That being said I would NEVER enter a plus size category of a traditional competition. It would feel like the plus size category was an ugly stepchild of the competition. Like these men and woman can’t hang with the normals so we gave them their own category so they aren’t competiting out of their league. If it is a pole competition for everyone I would have categories based on ability/skill level.
That is what PPC is and I appreciate that there is so much variety in the types and levels of categories of competition that almost any competitor can find the correct level for themselves. -
I am really enjoying everyone’s thoughts on this. I’m also so happy that we can have this type of open conversation in a safe and loving way. When this suggestion was brought to me I knew immediately that it was a complex conversation and could be controversial. It’s through these conversations that we make a better pole world for everyone and Veena, many thanks for giving us an open forum to discuss these topics.
I believe “plus size” needs to be self determined. I don’t even love that term, is there a better term? I also believe that creating a competition for plus size dancers NEEDS to be as important as any other division. It would need to be done in a way that highlights dancers instead of making the statement that they are incapable and that is a very fine line.
Pso and Midwest both come to mind when I think of competitions that provide diversity and celebrate it. I personally prefer skill level based criteria because I love seeing everyone on the stage but I’m also not plus sized and not dealing with EMOTIONAL component of competing against someone who I feel has added advantages based on size. I mean, I certainly deal with my set of issues competing like lack of flexibility and wow moves but those are things I can readily change if I hunker down.
This is an extremely complex discussion because we are dealing with how we view ourselves and others AND layering in a competitive environment that judges someone’s ability and art. It’s deeply personal and at the same time it’s a conversation we need to be having as pole pushes forward. It’s about creating as much equity as we can to provide the safest places and opportunities for others with fairness and love so that we can celebrate everyone’s unique contributions to pole.
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I am definitely in the “sexy curves” category. I am a size 20/22 and working on getting healthy and strong. I don’t think I’d ever compete because I don’t like being judged on anything. I would probably cry my eyes out watching a “plus sized” competition because I’d be so proud of the women willing to put themselves out there. I’d love to see more women that look like me on stage. It might encourage me to showcase. If it makes women more comfortable, I totally support a category like that.
I love this discussion and look forward to seeing my pole sisters strut their stuff! -
As my good friend Layla Duvay told me when I first started, us big girls have to work that much harder!
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Are there currently rules in existing competitions that disqualify polers of a certain size?
This is a slippery slope. Should we start separating dancers according to height as well? Surely their proportions affect how they move.
I don’t understand why the pole world has gravitated toward competitions instead of showcases. It seems like as soon as they can invert, people want to compete. If you want to do what you love for an audience, it makes sense to be part of a recital or show. Why bring in the aspect of comparing yourself to others? It seems unnecessary and potentially not very beneficial.
If you love pole & want to show it, I understand and everyone should have the chance to show off their personal style 🙂 But competing means you want to be compared to others and judged. And why should competitions cater to specific body types? Isn’t training your body part of the dedication that comes with competing? -
There is a lot of discussion about what qualifies for “plus size”. Some will find the term itself offensive. I am woman who is somewhat in between. Too big to hang with the small girls and too small to hang with the big girls. My favorite song at the club used to be “where the big girls at”. Once a guy came up to me and told me that song wasn’t for me because I’m not a big girl. Well I am certainly not petite or small or whatever word they are using these days. Ok, back to the topic. Have you thought of having a category for “the everyday woman” or something similar. I like the “curvy girl” term that you use. Anything besides “plus size”. That would be inclusive and dignified. If there were such a category I would be excited about it.
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To be honest with you I think it’s just personal preference. A girl entering a competition in a curvy girls section would need to be fully accepting of re body and proud. It’s scary believe me I’ve battled with myself for years I’m too big. Now that I’ve found pole I don’t care, I wear crop tops on the pole which I wouldn’t do any other time- this is a big deal lol. But yes, I would enter a section devoted to curvier girls because let’s face it, although we can do all the same moves, be the same strength as the smaller girls, I myself cannot going myself around as they do. I don’t find it offensive at all a category specifically aimed for girls like me because we are all different and there’s nothing wrong with being a bit bigger. The only thing to be careful about is what u call the category. For me I’d say ” the curve-luscious category” , just a thought 🙂
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Cannot fling myself around*
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Maybe the Plus Size can be determined by a BMI index %, however that would only be a suggestion to those who choose to enter. It would be up to the entrant to figure if he/she qualifies…. ?
Another thought – (I was a competitive ice dancer in my “former” life, lol) Many people competed in ice skating, when all they really wanted to do was have a performance goal and be seen in a formal public setting. So at one of the rinks where I trained, they developed a Showcase for exhibiting. They still gave out trophies and took pictures of those who entered. They put Plus on the trophy for that category; not the term Plus Size. So no one seeing the trophy would automatically know what that meant.
I am not a plus myself, but I am certainly sympathetic to categories that need to exist to encourage all people. -
This is a really interesting thread to read !
I really liked the point about pole stepping away from showcasing and now being all about competitions. I don’t feel I am ‘qualified’ to have much thought on the matter, but like the poster before me, I want everyone to feel encouraged and welcomed into the pole community and if they feel there needs to be categories for them, then power to them.I do think, however, that determining by BMI is a stupid idea since it’s such a stupid measurement to begin with. If you’re a slim person with a heap of muscle (which let’s be honest, a lot of pro polers probs are) your BMI will probably be really high and may even put you in the overweight / obese category.
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I think there is something for everyone. Competitions and showcases! I am in the process of setting up a showcase that will offer optional feedback so it will be the best of both worlds. Roz and Dangerous Curves will be presented as a separated but related event on the same day. We’re really excited about it!
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@michael Honestly I don’t know much about BMI. And you’re right someone with bulky muscles could qualify, and then that defeats the purpose, in our case of discussion. I hadn’t thought about that angle. I guess you’d just have to call the category Plus Size, and let the entrants decide if they fit the description. People have been arguing for decades what “normal weight” even is, lol!
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