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My thoughts on #notastripper
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My (very strong) thoughts on #notastripper…
I used to bake a lot, and I used to read a lot of baking blogs, look at photos, etc.. In all that time I never–not one single time–saw a hashtag or any language preemptively declaring that the author/baker was not a professional baker. So why then do pole dancers feel the need to preemptively declare that they are not strippers? Because they want to “defend” themselves. The only reason someone would need to defend themselves is if they buy into the idea that there is something shameful about stripping. Intentionally or not, it is denigrating women who strip. It is slut shaming. The #notastripper tag says I’m not like those women, disrespect those women, denigrate those women, but respect me, because what I do is “fitness,” or “sport.” If you have a sporty style or a non-sensual dance style on the pole, that’s fine, be you, celebrate you, but it is not okay to put down other women who do pole in other contexts or embrace another style. Pole as we practice it comes from women dancing in strip clubs, it is an art form created and nurtured by strippers, it is not okay for us to take pole, but disrespect them.
I did really appreciate Veena’s comments that, if you’re that afraid to even try the sexy or sensual side of pole, even in your own home or in a studio with women you know, it’s worth asking yourself why?
I also wonder, if all you want to do is gymnastics or dance, if pole is really just another apparatus, then why not take gymnastics or dance classes? If the only reason you pole is fitness, then why not take Zumba, or Pilates, or one of a hundred other things? Just some food for thought.
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catmoves2718 the history of pole does not come from strip clubs but was gymnastic in origin. Here is a link http://ipdfa.com/about/history-of-pole/
pamholderman3001, you are most gracious and I love your comment. Since I am in the gymnastic camp I get tired of eyebrows always going up and a smirk coming across people’s face if I say I do pole fitness and always have to explain myself to say I don’t do stripper style but gymnastic style. Why should I have to do that? Trust me, I always get funny looks and have to explain it, why can’t it just be a normal sport like ice skating or parallel bars. I would love to see it in the Olympics some day.
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Veena, I just want to tell you how much I love your website and have learned and grown so much. You cater to all styles and I truly do think that is wonderful as it gives women choices as we are not “all fit one size” and “it is okay to be different”:)
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Yes, both Chinese pole and Mallakhamb pre-date pole as we practice it, but I think claiming them as our direct ancestors is disingenuous at best. Mallakhamb, Chinese pole, and pole as we practice it seem to be examples of similar dance forms/sports evolving separately or with limited influence on each other. Mallakhamb and Chinese pole clearly came first historically, but that doesn’t necessarily mean pole as we practice it evolved directly or even indirectly from those forms. If you compare the three forms, there are some pretty major differences in equipment as well as style. Mallakhamb poles are much thicker (at least at the base, they taper) and Chinese poles are just a little thicker (52-60mm) but typically much taller. Another big difference; in Mallakhamb both the athlete and the pole are coated in oil to reduce friction. Chinese poles are typically coated in rubber or similar materials to improve grip, this means they wear clothes in order to avoid friction burns. In contrast we dance in little clothing on a 40-50mm pole made of polished metal and fastidiously avoid any form of oil on our skin. Yes, we have seen the incorporation of moves from Chinese pole in particular into the pole lexicon, especially at the elite levels, but this doesn’t mean pole as we practice it comes from Chinese pole.
We can point to the circus connection, and in the US the side-shows of the 1920s, but the nude or nearly nude girly shows where women danced around the center pole of the tent isn’t a far cry from the gentleman’s clubs that started showing up in the 1950s. If we look at the recent history of pole, we can see a direct line from strip clubs to dance studios. Two of the women who helped bring pole to women outside of strip clubs, Sheila Kelly and Fawnia Dietrich, both credit strippers as their inspiration. Fawnia Dietrich was a stripper and Sheila Kelly is an actress and screenwriter, who discovered pole while writing about and playing a stripper. Sheila Kelly wrote a book and opened a studio. Fawnia Dietrich made instructional videos/DVDs and opened a studio. There is more to the start of pole in studios than that, but our pioneers were clearly influenced by what was going on in strip clubs. Additionally, while it seems to be less common now (or at least not discussed), when I started pole in 2008, it was quite common for pole dance instructors to be current or former strippers, if for no other reason than few other women had ever danced on a pole.
I did read the link you posted Kellye Perkins, and nothing it says is at all inconsistent with what I had previously read about the history of pole as we practice it, they just devote more attention to Chinese Pole and Mallakhamb. Their discussion of recent pole is confined to two paragraphs, but is consistent with a direct link from pole in strip clubs to pole in dance studios.
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Does anyone find it funny that strippers don’t have a hashtag putting down pole fitness people? Like, #nota pole”fitness”poler. i think that would be mean if that was happening but you don’t see that happening. How funny that many take a big portion of what strippers do as an everyday job but say ” oh, I’m nothing like you” . Of course pole doesn’t have to be about sexuality . Not at all. I just don’t think it’s necessary for fitness polers to be on the defense. Can’t people look at what you do and judge based on that? People who know you should know you well enough to have an idea if you are a stripper or not. If someone asks you, hey are you a stripper? Well then that might be a good time to say – no, I’m not a stripper. That’s not being defensive and feeding into negativity and elitism. That’s just being honest.
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Right after I got my pole in 2013 we had a family reunion. I have 2 sons and 4 grandaughters. One of my grandaughters sat crying in the corner while the others got to play on it and have fun. Only because of the connotation that it would be a bad influence on her as my son only saw it as a strip club object. This is what I have an issue with. If you look at a chair the first thing you see is something to sit on not to do a lap dance. The first thing I think of when seeing a pole is something firemen go down when rushing to put out a fire. To this day I have never been in a strip club. So if a chair is something to sit on, then a pole is something to climb on or spin around. The first thought that comes to people’s mind is adult entertainment and that is what I have issue with. This is true in America but not as much in some other countries.
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I must be blunt. The whole “It’s all about your intentions” and “People will look into anything to get offended.” Is a cop out. As mature, aware individuals of society it is our obligation to think about what we say and how it can denigrate or marginalize other members of society. We can have the best intentions in the world, but you know what? If our words, our mentalities, or our actions are still putting other people down…then out intentions don’t mean anything. And i guess at the end of the day you have to decide what matters more. Your feelings on your intentions or the people who are hurt or put down by what you said. For me the second is more important. And honestly hoe hard it is to not qualify something? How hard is it to post a picture of yourself in instagram and leave it at that?
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It’s just silly to put down someone for earning a living in a legal profession. If anything people need to be coming after these CEOs taking home million dollar bonuses while their employees need 2 jobs to pay their bills.
It just reminds me of this post I saw on Pinterest last year. Basically it said, no I’m not a stripper what I do takes hard work or discipline or something equally as stupid. I was so mesmerized by the stupidity. To the point I was staring at it and wondering if the person who made it realized that strippers are using the same muscle groups.
Stop shaming and policing women’s bodies.
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Such bullshit for someone to say strippers don’t do what fitness polers do. Last time I went in the club those girls were busting out tricks, combos, fucking handstand drops into splits , backbends , floor work . All the stuff pole fitness people do plus they were doing lap dances and hustling . Don’t act like strippers don’t do tricks and combos on the pole too cause they do and that’s were all that pole fitness stuff came from. I don’t know one person who knew about mallakahmb before they knew about pole dancing the way we know it. That’s just rare that a real person says – well I studied about Chinese pole and mallakahmb and decided to do this. Nope, you saw a pole dancer do it and she learned that stuff from poles strip club roots. Not everything they do in the club is just sexy. They do some athletic and strength based shit too.
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I saw this a video of a stripper who climb all the way up this super high pole, flip herself into the ceiling bar and just hang their by her heels. She was swaying back and forth and rocking intentionally. I was mesmerizicing and terrifying all at the same time.
Don’t tell me that they aren’t athletes.
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I went to a club in Miami and all the dancers were doing insane balances, like handstands and holding headstands. I saw this one girl hold “bird of paradise” in her flippin stilettoes. Some girls are contracted to stay fit,so they do yoga, Pilates, anything that keeps them working and making money. Its all athletic. NAKED OYLYMPICS LIKE THE GOOD OL DAYS lol.Women just can’t express their sexuality without society shaming her for exposing her ankles.
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^^^and then they’ll call her a prude for not showing her breast or butt.
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OMG I want to take u all out for a beer, even you KellyePerkins — maybe to a bar with a pole! What fun we’do have, LOL. No but really, this has been such an entertaining thread to read, thank you all for your posts. I wanted to share a little story related to something I read above, abt intentions vs consequences of actions…
Very recently I had to clamp down on my older (age 12) son incessantly picking on his younger brother (age 10), to the point of hurting his feelings. He took to writing all of it off and explaining it away with “what, I was just kidding!” What we had to drill into his brain was the following: pursuing entertainment or enjoyment, for oneself alone or shared with others, does not afford any one the right to put down or hurt others in the process. Uh basic golden rule stuff? Did we not cover this in grade school??? So yeah, blaming others for taking offense is indeed a cop out. Well put emmasculator, jdh, Phoenix, and others
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Wait one more thing: as for respecting our bodies, funny I think about things like this a lot as a mom, I guess I take in a lot of things in the world through the lens of “what do I really want my kids to learn out of this”… Anyway, being naked in front of others, entertaining others with your body, dancing with or without clothes on, in any possible venue — and I really ask you all to expand your minds on this one, I really mean ANY venue, from the Vienna Opera House to your local Deja Vu to a competition stage to on a screen for a music video/movie/TV show, etc — cannot possibly be automatically connected with disrespecting your body or your overall being, at least not alone in and of itself. That’s insane.
In fact I can see any person under any such above circumstances exemplifying the utmost respect for their bodies and themselves, with the prime care they might take of their bodies: the food they eat, the activity and fitness they engage in, the rest they afford themselves, all their physical habits honoring a wonderful body that deserves that care… of course, this isn’t truly everybody, there are dancers (of ALL sorts!) who starve themselves, drink too much, take/smoke stuff that can wreck their bodies and brains, overwork their bodies, or allow people to hurt or abuse them in any way, etc… oh yeah but wait, aren’t there people from every walk of life who also disrespect their bodies and all these various ways? Terrible eating habits, overly sedentary or inactive, allow people to take advantage of them physically… Oh I could go on forever… so let’s be real, like somebody said way above, “strippers” are just people, we are all just people, different kinds of people. Everybody really needs to hold their presumptions, assumptions, judgment, criticisms… At least of others — go ahead and flood yourself with your own about you, for sure. But then also, forgive and love yourself, and move on. -
I love seeing all of the different perspectives. 💜 If you missed my thoughts here’s he video https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/56913358-4930-438c-97ab-0225ac110003
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One final thought. Doing it for a living takes much more physical and mental strength. To me to say #notastripper means someone is actually LESS of an athlete. Didn’t get to take days off to nurse sore muscles or injuries. Had to perform or be homeless. Competed every day because the one with the better skills got to pay her rent that month. Many of the girls did serious gymnastics too. And there were no lessons then. No poles to learn on at home. Damn hard physically and required street smarts. And poling was only a small part of the job. Not like now when I can slip into the other room for a little herbal tea and a nap if I get tired poling. But it was a tiny piece of my journey that helped make me the strong, confident woman I am today. And you know what? I have seen more shameful behavior in the boardroom than I’ve seen in the clubs. I’ve left “normal” jobs because the ethics made me sick. At the end of the day it’s about respecting and honoring each other’s journey.
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I’m watching this now! It’s great. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I agree with a lot of the thoughts shared here.When people say to me “You pole dance? Like a stripper?” I usually say something like “Nope, I wish I made money from it, actually its a huge money pit for me, but I love it.” :p
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Finally got to watching the recorded broadcast of this talk. This has been such a cool discussion! Everyone’s insight has been super helpful on a huge pile of thoughts I’ve been sitting on and have been thinking of doing a big ol’ brain dump in a blog post.
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