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Elite vs. Professional Pole Dancers: The Odd Distinction (RE: Veena Training Course)
Hey All,
I feel compelled to share my thoughts about an element I found in the new Studioveena Teacher Training Course-the distinction between “Elite” and “Professional” pole dancers. As a Professional (and aspiring Pole Star!! :-D) this really got me thinking a whole bunch, sorting thru some inner conflicts, and relating back to myself and my own relationship with pole in a different way.
As defined in the Course…an “Elite” Pole Dancer is:
A pole dancer who is considered to be the best in their talent field by having achieved a very high level of proficiency, demonstrating high levels of strength, flexibility and overall skill. Spending several hours a day practicing and participating in activities that help maintain this high level of achievement. (There were specific examples of “Elite” Pole Moves in the manual)
I think this definition threw me for a bit of a loop because it seemed like the only way to becum an “Elite” Pole Artist is to be a Super Outrageous Gymnast/Contortionist type, and to dedicate your whole life to training, sustaining injuries along the way. And to me that quite honestly sounds miserable…and extreme.
I began to wonder…is that what I would need to do to get where I want to go? (of course the answer is no but it crossed my mind anyway)
I train for approx. 2 hours a day, 6 days a week, switching between flexy and pole. That’s not including the time I take to look over my videos, researching, and fine-tuning ideas. I consider myself to be very dedicated to my Art. Training more than that would feel like too much.
Bravo to people who do (and love it!) but that life would feel imbalanced, to me! I always love to train safe and feel balanced in my practice.
I do want to get to an Elite level, in the sense that I have a very strong Mastery of the Art of Pole…and that I’m very seasoned in MY particular style.
I consider pole to be a language I’m learning. I can speak it well, but I want to be in a place where I can speak with great fluency…I do have some Advanced (fundamental) tricks I’d like to master, but honestly many of the crazy advanced, complex trix don’t even appeal to me.
I much prefer to build a strong foundation off the *quality* of my movement, transitions, and creativity in and out of tricks…building my style. instead of training to do particular moves. It’s not “what” you do, but “how” it’s done…that moves me.
And I think that’s because my relationship to dance, what moves me in dance…is very energy based. It’s about lines, shapes, energy of the movement, the emotion of the Dancer…the little things. The basic stuffs. It’s all part of the Art to me.
And believe me…obtaining a strong quality of movement for even basic stuff also takes a lot of training and practice. Mentally and Physically. And Spiritually.
Some of my favorite Pole Stars…don’t even do those crazy tricks that were outlined in the “Elite” category.
For example, Eva Bembo…does mostly yoga-based floor movements, coupled with some *really* strong, finely tuned advanced fundamental pole work, such as Ayeshas and Shoulder Mounts.
I suppose I’d like to express…that for those of us who do want to be at the top of our Pole Game…there is a happy medium. Sometimes this means we will have to redefine what “Elite”, “Advanced” or even “Great Dancer” means for us. Or it can mean we have to know when to toss out the labels and levels when they’re not serving us, or when we don’t neatly fit into any of them.
Thought this unique little birdie would add her two cents 😉
Anyway, I really enjoy this Teacher Training Course, and I have lots of respect for Veena’s method. I also *think* I get what she is trying to get across with this distinction. And I appreciate the down to Earth approach she takes with the Course (y’all should check it out). Thanks again, Veena! Would love to hear y’all thoughts 😉
Peace,
Isis -
22 Replies
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To me, elite dancers are those who achieve a level of flexibility and/or strength that would take many years to develop or just may not be feasible for most. Elite dancers have either had the years of gymnastics background to apply to pole or started doing gymnastics training and eventually integrated that into their pole work . To me, this could mean other things besides gymnastics- it could be contortion , classical ballet , hand balancing or a combination of things. There are many professional pole dancers who are great but I still wouldn’t consider them to be elite level. And sometimes elite, means being very very strong in an aspect of pole whether it is flexibility or strength or balance , etc. yes, to be elite I do think you have to be a contortionist or gymnast etc. doesn’t mean the professional pole dancers aren’t just as great. Sometimes greatness comes from their artistry, choreography, character, fluidity. Those are things that can’t necessarily be taught even though one can develop them if they work on it. To me, Eva is an example of someone who is so amazing and special and unique but I don’t think of her skills as being elite level , although I love her work more the most elite level dancers. To not be elite is not an insult. But reality, they dance like 8 or more hours a day. Have probably been training gymnastics or similar since they were 5 years old. The rest of us start at a much less advantage point, but we can still get just as good or good enough to artistically express what we set out to express. When I think of elite , I think of bendy Kate, oona kivela and Felix cane. Yes, it is the high level of contortion and gymnastics that puts them in that category. I think regular pole dancers like the rest of us are so misguided when it comes to certain tricks. We take for granted that it is really insane to be working on certain tricks. We just expect them to happen with some training- and it probably will happen with enough training. But we don’t respect how difficult and how much is required of our poor bodies to do things like rainbow marchenko, and spatchcock. We don’t respect it enough because we actually do see “regular” pole dancers achieve these tricks. We just push ourselves like crazy and the bar is lifted so high that we don’t expect less of ourselves. I think elite is a term to recognize a high level of technicality achievement. It doesn’t negate the greatness of other pole dancers At all. Just like there are many great singers in the world. Everyone loves the Beatles but we’re they elite singers. Umm, hell no! Does it make them any less great ? Not at all 🙂
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Also, I would add that most Elite dancers but not all, have been genetically blessed. Felix Cane, yes she worked hard for what she has accomplished, but not everyone, even with years of training can achieve those leg extensions. her knees and ankles are just built to move at that range. it’s almost unnatural. but it’s natural for her body. her training unlocked some genetic advantage that was already built into her body.
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sorry, I keep adding stuff 🙂 to me, Samantha Star is also elite level. some think of elite as being hyper flexible, but I also think it applies to the amazingly strong dancer as well. Samantha is strong beyond words and her balance skills are out of this world. Definitely a different type of Elite dancers. Then there’s bendy Kate. she is elite in all that is flexibility, balance and strenghth!!! amazing stuff! she is almost a freak of nature with her skill…
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Phoenix, you explained it very well, hit the nail on the head…thank you!
Isis, the definition of Elite is not meant to belittle anyones efforts or achievements in pole. Honestly, I see it as a positive, showing respect for those who have dedicated their life to their art or sport! From your reply you seem to understand my point, that it takes tons of time, effort and sacrifice to reach an Elite level and this is not right for everyone?
I know of so many Elite pole stars or for that matter, dancers, yogi’s and aerialist that have had injuries requiring surgery and sometime leave them with life long pain. This is not to say you will have injury, but the likely hood is so very high at an Elite level of any sport or physically demanding art.
To be clear, I am NOT an Elite pole dancer, I’m a professional. I am very good at what I do and catch on super quick, however at this point in my life I have not dedicated the time required to reach Elite. I have so many interests, including weekends with my family, that for me, only working on pole would not be emotionally satisfying.
I am not less of a teacher or dancer because I’m not Elite in fact there is no reason for anyone to feel like less of a dancer or even that one will not able to reach “pole star” status if you are not Elite. I think there’s room for all levels in the world of “pole stars” and pole in general. I am inspired by ALL levels of dance and we can enjoy everyone! xoxox
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Thank you for your responses @Veena and Phoenix…this brings about a lot of clarity!
My question still stands…and I believe this question is so much broader than what’s presented in the Training Manual…
Why should certain types of professional Pole Dancers be considered “Elite” status, whilst others are not-purely based on the Gymnastics/Contortionist abilities?
Pole Dance to me is so much more than that. Creating a class barrier (these ones are “higher” than others) based on Circus Abilities I feel is obsolete.
There are many ways to train your body for pole…and some of us prefer not to train ourselves into that realm, but instead focus on others.
I for one prefer to incorporate Ballet Training to achieve beautiful lines. I focus on fluidity and grace. I do strength and flexibility training, but I have a very long body, long legs… that is what I like to accentuate.
The gymnastics stuff to me is not really sexy, nor is it part of my style…I have no interest in training for it (though I’m sure I could if I wanted to).
In some years down the line, when I am very seasoned…why would I accept someone telling me I’m not “Elite” because my style does not fit into the “Contortion/Gymnast” realm? That is really what I’m getting at.
And yes, to me-Eva Bembo is one of my favorite dancers. With her skill level probably COULD do all of those crazy tricks-or at least train to do them-but chooses to stay true to her style, which reflects a simple beauty. An EMOTION. She is moving. Beautiful! She IS “Elite” to me…and I see so much of myself in her.
OK, that is all now. Thank you again for contributing to the conversation. I appreciate all of it 🙂
Paz.
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Labeling certain sections as “for Elite polers only” is probably more to say that they shouldn’t be attempted by anyone whose body and training can’t handle it, and that we should be realistic about our personal limitations. Does that mean you are “less than?” Only if you see yourself that way, and it sounds like you don’t, as contortion/gymnastics aren’t a big focus of your pole work.
Perhaps the answer is to get to an elite level, as YOU define it! 🙂 I don’t think the class distinctions are unique to pole. Football fans debate if Messi is as great as Pele or if Maradona is the all-time great. Ballet followers argue about why it took so long to promote a soloist to a principal dancer (Misty Copeland comes to mind), and basketball fans debate if Lebron, Kobe, and MJ are all in the same category or not. I like to think that the Messis, Kobes, and Copelands of the world don’t concern themselves much about what labels people give them (or not), they just try to be the greatest versions of themselves that they can be!
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Isis, My definition of was never intended to include only tricks, or only certain styles of pole, all that you have mentioned is part of the elite definition. I believe this is true in other sports and performing arts as well. There is a need for overall style, grace and technique, tricks are one aspect of pole and used as the main example because for the most part, I see tricks as the focus of topics in studio and here. Even in training ballet or flexibility one can overtrain and suffer from the same issues as mentioned before. Even those who train for body building competitions will tell you it take sacrifice and it’s actually not a healthy lifestyle.
It’s a free course and I am in no way demanding everyone agree or even choose to listen to my thoughts and advice. It was created in hopes of offering some insight as to what is realistic for the majority of the population. My goal was to help everyone, not tell them they can’t do something or be something. I don’t think that was the message that was presented but I appreciate your input.
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Great topic! I think this distinction is coming up increasingly and with greater speed in the pole community, especially when it comes to competitions. I see how it is a good distinction to make as a category in your training manual, Veena, so I see this more as a jumping off point for conversation and far less about second-guessing what it is your project, after all.
I think this distinction is a double-edged sword. It does make very clear what the expectations are and the work that goes into achieving this level. Thats a good thing! The piece that I think we are going to have to contend with as instructors, students and erst-while performers/athletes is the trickle-down effect of this category. We can keep saying that “it shouldn’t matter” but how do we manage the pressure and disappointment that it puts on many of us when we see that so many of these tricks are beyond our reach? When they get taught in workshops or on IG clips or when the trick level sort of trickles down and makes even “lower-level” competition categories have higher and higher levels of strength/flexy moves? When we can’t manage our expectations of being able to execute a clean Ayesha for years? I don’t know that there are real solutions here but I guess there’s the rub.
PS: While Eva Bembo and Olga Koda dont do all the sweet new elite tricks, when they choose to bust out their strength moves, like one-armed handstand balance variations etc, I assure you that those are waaaaay harder than they look. *ow*
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I think it’s an great conversation and I hope many see it! The fact that workshops teach Elite and signature moves without giving a clear indication of level is a big part of the confusion and issue. It makes me sad to see so many down on themselves after attending workshops and such. We have some amazing instructors that do a great job making things appropriate, but it’s not something that enough pros are doing. Through this course I’m hoping to help others understand that we don’t all need to do crazy tricks or even aspire to achieve splits if it’s not naturally within our bodies abilities! If you WANT to take it to that level, that’s great too, but it’s hard work! However, there is no reason anyone should feel crushed by not achieving these things. I say over and over in the manual that it’s our job as instructors to teach that pole can be amazing, entertaining, freeing, and strength building at ANY level.
Handstand are freakin hard and I do them very well, but I would not say I can handstand at an elite level, I lack consistency and control at times, but I’m still damn impressive! I don’t need to feel bad because my handstands are not world class circus good. They are an amazing achievement for ME!
Last bit here, to be clear that I don’t think anyone is TRYING to frustrate students or workshop attendees but often instructors and those who teach workshops, only teach what they know, not fully understanding how difficult it is for the majority of the population to reach this level. I don’t think any of us as adults would take a class in gymnastics and expect to qualify for the Olympics after only a few years! Don’t get hung up thinking only tricks either, you would not join an adult ballet class and be asked to join the San Francisco ballet after only a few years.
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Veena, I think that is a perfect example gymnastics/olympics ballet class. And yes, those freaking floor moves/handstands are crazy hard!!! Isis, I think great polers are recognized for their greatness and it doesnt matter what we may label their technicality on paper. you are right, there is so much more to pole than technicality,their is artistry, musicality, fluidity, all those things. The “Elite” level,in my mind, Have the contortion, gymnastics, ballet, and yes, they also have the musicality, artistry, creativity,expression, lines and extension. they have all those things plus they can put their butt on their head! haha! But not doing contortion level tricks or gymnastics level backflips off the pole doesnt make someone less recognized than someone who performs at an elite level. I wouldnt get to hung up on where you fit as far as labels are concerned. Be the best you can and you will be recognized and admired for you. no one is gonna watch a great performance and say- well they didnt do contortion! could have been better. lol. no, people recognized greatness when they see it.
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Dirdybirdy may not be considered “Elite” to some. She hasn’t done competitions or placed but she is one of the more well known polers. When she won polers choice award I read somewhere on her facebook or a comment she made somewhere on a post that she felt embarrassed because she knows she isn’t as good as Felix or Marion. She’s popular and people love her. She showcases her fluidity and strength well plus has a decent personality. I think people like her so much because she is more “obtainable” and “realistic”.
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I can definitely think of several polers like Dirdy who would qualify as “elite” in many ways except for the fact that she is not interested in competing. I suppose in this case adding the aspect of competitions/performances gives the instructor a specific goal in creating curricula for pro-track polers. There’s always going to be people who fall between categories.
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I’m going to chime in. I think there is a DISTINCT misunderstanding of the purpose of defining elite in the Veena Method Curriculum.
It is established as part of the lexicon of the manual in order to provide a context for where groups of moves fall developmentally. It is absolutely NOT established to judge or place any dancer or group of dancers.
In order to understand more fully lets look at the definition of elite:
Elite-
– the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.The elite are the top FEW people who have set everything aside to accomplish and refine in a way that others cannot. It’s really that simple, the best in a field don’t just win a genetic lottery they also commit 100%. The elite in any field don’t say “committing 100% sounds miserable” instead they usually put aside family, friends, health and most everything else that other people consider essential to their lives in order to live a fulfilling life.
That is elite.
By classifying moves as ELITE we can understand that they generally can only be executed properly if you have put in enough time and effort to properly strengthen and tune your dancing.
Please do not make the mistake of assuming that Veena has set out to judge or categorize any dancer, she is categorizing moves only.
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While yes, the intention was to simply categorize moves allowing teachers and students to communicate, but I can see how people will automatically categorize themselves or others, even if that was not the intention.
For some reason pole dancers tend to get caught up in levels and status, my hope is that some day we will learn to accept where ever we may be in our journey and be happy for others who we find inspiring instead of feeling like less of a pole dancers because we can’t do everything they do……
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Well I don’t want to parse other people’s words…but if (per Webmaster) one classifies Elite as athletes who spend 100% of their time to execute these moves and that’s what makes them Elite…then that does feel like a judgement of the dancers who do or don’t spend their time this way and doesn’t seem to have much to do with the moves themselves. You could spend a serious chunk of time working on moves like the butterfly and shoulder mount at the expense of your social life and not be considered Elite, after all.
Anyway I think that’s what causes confusion and a little weirdness in people, which is a normal reaction. ( so once again I’m not attacking the manual or Veena’s intentions in trying to find categories that make sense). Elite feels like a loaded, class-based word ( and not everyone who uses it means it that way but….) so its natural that it sets some people back on their heels.
I’m curious now as to how many pole dancers we know that we could seriously classify as spending 100% of their time on pole. Haha. Even Natasha Wang talks about her cats and her fiancé a lot.
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