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Current competitions. Is anybody getting it right?
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I agree with you. I just figured that since people's opinions change once they are anonymous, and sometimes more than one friend competes, it might work.
but i totally agree with you.
any suggestions on how to make it work?
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There has been one comp that did audience voting, USPDF that had online voting for the last contestant and one of the big comps always has a fans choice that is also done by online voting. In each and every case it comes down to a populatiry contest, and the comp was ripped apart. On top of this the software that would be necessary to do an audience participation type vote is peobably not cheap and I still have not found a single comp that has all sorts of extra money to spend.
Kind of a case in point…..Cedar Point just had a dance competition about a month ago. There was a number to text your vote. Not only did I get texted to vote by a friend who was competing but it was posted all over facebook. You did not even have to be IN THE AUDIENCE to vote. Now think of how many friends someone like Aerial Amy has on FB, and thus in her phone contacts. How easy would it be to send a mass text to every one of her contacts? (Amy, I am using you just as an example, not that you would actually do something like this).
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Judging is really tough. Part of the problem is that in the pole dance industry we aren't really large enough yet to have professional judges who do nothing else but judge as they do in some other disciplines. Some professional judges never teach. Right now we have some people filling three roles…professional competitors, trainers/teachers, and judges. Until we grow more that some are judges and nothing else, it's going to be tough.
I am gathering feed back for my own purposes. This year Lizz Schofield did not judge within the No American Elite division because of her ties to hear instructor and quasi partner Lorinda who was a finalist in that division.
However I am concerned about how we can possible separate all judges from those who have contacts with finalists. The pole world is still too small.
For example…Lets say Alethea comes to the Midwest a lot (she does right?) and lets say every time she is in town a particular dancer takes as many privates and classes with her as she can. And every time that dancer travels anywhere they take other workshops with her too.
What is the difference between someone taking classes regularly at a judges studio and someone taking workshops and classes regularly with a judge at different locations?
It's become impossible to separate instructors from competitors. I think we need to make certain we have a large variety of judges from various locations and have at least a set number of maybe 4 or even more for every comp so that there is enough diversity among the judges plus more dilution of any possible favoritism.
However, I think we also have to start trusting judges to be professional and not play favoritism and if we accept them in their role as a judge we trust them to make the right call when scoring a competition.
I know my students will tell you I am brutal with them when I critique them. As the organizer of Midwest and No American I sat there and watched my own students and felt every one of them should have placed. I also know that if I was sitting in the judges seat (as I have done so in the past) I would have seen a lot more and maybe not felt the same way.
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For the record…I think Mary Ellyn and the team of judges at the Midwest Pole Dance Convention did a spectacular job picking the winners. My husband and I sat in the audience doing our own critiquing (as pure amateurs) and the top 3 in each divison were spot on. There were some incredibly talented performers and I would not have wanted to be in the judges (awesome) shoes.
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I agree – Mary Ellyn has some excellent judging criteria – although as a competitor – I pulled my hair out a lot trying to make it all work! hahahahaha!
Midwest is the hardest competition I have ever done because there are so many things we are being judged on – so basically in the end it's really about doing your best and focusing on your strengths as a pole dancer.
Aside from the hair pulling with compulsories I liked the challenge of having things be required and trying to figure out how to do them without losing the integrity of the story – that part was really fun. It was fun to be forced to be creative because otherwise I'll just dance and not do anything.
Comeptitions are complex – I'm not sure I can handle the process of doing another one – this was my swan song I think. It's hard. I cannot tell you how much I respect i have for those brave enough to endure weeks of ahrd work, effort, creativity to go out on stage give your heart to the room and be judged – it's really hard. I think that's something that organizers need to take into account and need to be as sure as possible that the judging system is FAIR and ETHICAL. Midwest did this – props to them. And I'm not saying it because I placed – had I not placed I'd feel the same way. There were a lot of things expected of us and each and every performer LIVED UP to those expectations.
The thing that was good about this too, was that the judging criteria is listed right on the website. I'm now seeing other competitions do this which is great. Transparancy is the most important thing for competitors and audience members.
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Right on, Charley!
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To go along with this thread I recently receved the PFA newsletter, and they included this little blurb in regards to comp judging.
PFA Develops Olympic Standard Judging Criteria
The PFA sanctioned the IPSF World Pole Sport Championship in London this summer. PFA and IPSF developed a complete judging criteria for competitions. All PFA sanctioned events are welcome to utilize it, and have as a finished result, a very fair, effective, simple judging format to be used in any competition. This format follows the example of judging criteria used when judging Gymnastics, or Figure skating. Aspiring to match a more Olympic standard, this effort will support efforts to get Pole Fitness in the Olympics, and prepare our industry for that day. This method is really beautiful, and we will be offering it to all PFA events to use, utilize, and perfect further while fusing with their own information and methods.
If nothing else it looks like a few of the bigger pole communities are trying to get on the ball and develop a standardized criteria. it's a step in the right direction if nothing else.
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I would love to see the PFA and IPSF publish this judging criteria as all other sports organizations do.
I actually think that transparency is one of our sport's biggest problems. People talk loud, but they want you to get on board before they'll share anything with you.
I would actually love to see someone issue regulations as an RFC(Request For Comment). This is how standards in most industries and sports are handled. Specifications and requirements are posted publicly with a time frame for commentary and suggestions. The benefit of this is that, as the document sponsor, you don't have to accept any of the commentary but you at least have the option and are giving the community you are supporting the ability to weigh in.
So I guess my question is does this:
"This method is really beautiful, and we will be offering it to all PFA events to use,"
mean that this criteria and methodology is sequestered until you decide to become a PFA event and get on board? Or are we able to examine said criteria and decide based on its merits whether we want to be PFA organizations, studios and dancers? In my mind there is only one right answer.
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One thing I would like to see happening in comps is adding a "masters" division. As we all know pole is something that can be done by all ages and those of us who love pole will want to keep on dancing, performing, competing no matter what age we are. Masters must be an inevitable addition to the completition schedule – imagine what a 50 year old Felix, Zoraya, Marlo, Onna etc. could do for promoting the sport to older women in persuit of fun, fitness and self empowerment through the realisationn that there is no "use by date" for this sport or the women who participate.
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MissyMia – The Midwest Pole Dance Competition and Pacific Pole Championships already have a Masters for over 40. 🙂 It's happening and it's splendid!
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Charley- that is fantastic, so happy, Australia still has to catch up though x
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