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Cultural Appropriation?
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I don’t like the article because I don’t think it’s necessary to overly police people for what they do for fun. I worked at a Mexican restaurant and could recount many things that could be deemed offensive by some people’s standards. Just a lack of understanding imo, but I wouldn’t call it blatant racism. I would go and joke about people’s “fuax pas” to my co-workers, stuff happens. If people drink and are happy then I’m happy too and that’s all that matters. People can choose to learn about me or they can choose not too. It’s a free country.
It’s admirable for people to be so compassionate and considerate toward others, but also, it doesn’t need to be forced fed either. MeganJoan, you deemed what is and is not appropriate, I apologize, but do not feel that is appropriate for you to tell others how to behave or dress. I do not mean this as a personal attack by any means, I just feel the article was a tad bit excessive. You have good intentions and that’s appreciated, but not everybody has to behave the same way.
I hope people have fun, life is hard enough without nitpicking like the article did. I’m pretty positive many of you do not have ill will when choosing to represent a culture other than your own. It’s a fun way to learn about others too if you’re interested.
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If you’re going to say something to me then at least have the backbone to actually say it, rather than caveat it with a version of “I’m sorry but”.
I will continue to advocate for social awareness, especially by those I positions of social privilege. And I will continue to insist that we be mindful of how we behalf and listen first and foremost to the people groups whose culture we are taking from. I really couldn’t give a shit if that makes you, or anyone else who would rather ignore the issue, uncomfortable.
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Oh and btw I did stop following this thread, but was then tagged by someone else in another community. Literally laughing in abject horror at what is happening here and the comments being made.
The arrogance of the ignorance here, and how quickly Veena was on to discourage anyone from giving a second thought about the social implications of their costume choices means I am done with this place. As are many others in the aforementioned other community.
Enjoy guys! Laters.
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The article and MeganJoan’s comments are put in the ‘excessive’ category by participates in this thread, but casual everyday racism is not. Everyone is really missing the point of the article – which has been articulated well in the article and by MeganJoan so there’s no point me adding more when everyone is so willing to ignore, silence and not participate in learning.
Sure not being offended is not a right. But as people who have a choice; I find it disheartening that in the pole community – one I promote to non-polers as inclusive – can’t take a step back and be critical of themselves and realise their privilege.
It’s easy to choose a costume that is not appropriating (though apparently this word is too loaded!? So insert borrowing if it makes you feel better) from a culture and still do a great show. When it’s so easy, why can’t we just give the benefit of the doubt and choose the kinder, more considerate option? There is no excuse. Can we please stop making excuses?! You’re privileged to have the choice to take what you want. It’s not merely showing appreciation because you think it good thoughts. It’s still taking because you have the position of power.
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My “dismissing attitude” is not over racism but the ARTICLE. The timing of the article seemed like a ploy to get people rilled up drawing attention to the BK blog over the halloween season. Which of course will sell costumes. The over all tone of the article was not caring or encouraging others to learn more about each others culture, but rather accusatory. It was written in a way that made it sound as if this was a raging issue among pole dancers.
I’ve not seen anyone making videos on here or creating routines for competitions where they have used costuming in an offensive way. Maybe is it an issue that I have not come across yet, but it’s not happening in videos I’ve seen. Had I been seeing many dancers choosing costumes that may offend that would be a different story, and we would need to get the word out for sure! I just haven’t seen these offenders.
I don’t see any REGULAR members being hateful or racist in anyway, the hate is coming from outside our SV community. I see members who are upset over the tone of an article….and it seems wrong to use such a powerful thing like racism to sell costumes.
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I reread the BadKitty article (for the fifth time), and its view of cultural appropriation is more limited than some of the other thought pieces out there – it is concerned with the perpetuation of racial stereotypes, as opposed to the use of cultural elements in pole pieces by people outside that culture. It’s interesting how the article implicitly gives a pass to people using stereotypes from their own culture, which could fall into the realm of shucking and jiving if done wrong (I realize “shucking and jiving” is slang referring to Black persons acting out African-American stereotypes so that people can laugh at African-Americans, but I can’t think of a term that would apply to all racial minorities) or could still be offensive regardless. It’s also interesting that Natasha Wang appears to have cornrows in her Pole Art piece, which the article does not address – I’m not sure that the author would see that as problematic, though. The other piece by Amy Hazel used a Pocahontas song providing a strong Native American point of view of the English conquest (at least insofar as a Disney movie can be trusted on this level), which suggests that the article thinks that cultural concepts can be used by persons outside the culture.
I hope this thread shows that this is a complex topic which can’t be reduced to generalities. The answer that the easiest method is to simply avoid the issue altogether is a bit sad – while it may be true, it also is a simplistic, lowest common denominator approach that serves to silence all speech, as opposed to only offensive speech. It’s kind of like, “There’s a line and I don’t know where it is so just don’t go anywhere within 1,000 feet of it.” Avoiding it may not be considerate if the determination is made without considering the opinions of persons from the affected culture – to give an example, for my Buddhist denomination, if someone outside the faith wanted to honor aspects of the faith in a piece, we would be overjoyed and may even replay the routine for all the members at a meeting. If someone decided not to do it out of fear of offending us, we’d try to figure out what that person’s concerns were and work with them to figure it out. Other Buddhist denominations may feel differently, which just underscores that this analysis is context-driven. Likewise, if a straight man wanted to do a drag queen impersonation of Ursula for a piece, that could be AMAZING (and I would note that Ursula was appropriated from gay culture since she was based off the infamous drag queen Divine, and Ursula is the best Disney villain of ALL TIME).
Also, I’m not sure where exactly I fall on the power privilege spectrum on this issue as I have white privilege (and members of racial minorities, Latinos, Middle Easterners, and North Africans can have white privilege depending on their appearance), but not cultural privilege considering that I was not raised within the mainstream of U.S. culture lol. I’m well aware of my privilege, and the various ways I am more privileged or less privileged than others – my perspective on this is not uninformed.
That said, regardless of the merits of this debate, I still have to figure out a darn makeup scheme to render myself incognito which will be pleasing to an audience while reflective of a theme I’m interested in, and I don’t get to decide the political makeup of the audience. The quality of my rhetoric and the soundness of my arguments here will be irrelevant once the audience makes their snap judgments. Maybe I’ll just be a drag queen and hope that no one gets offended that I’m making fun of women (which is an existing criticism of drag queens). 😛
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This has been quite the interesting read, and I have learned a lot just from looking at other people’s responses! Regardless of whether we think dressing in a certain way is degrading to a particular culture, I think it would be useful to examine why the thought of people getting offended can send us (and I use us in a general fashion) into almost defensive mode. instead of trying to say hmmm…I don’t think so, but why would someone feel that way..we (again loosely used) are quick to say well some group will always been offended son that’s that. I find myself doing it a lot actually and then I’m like woah just completely dismissed the notion that I could have hurt someone and now instead am trying to make myself feel better. and maybe I was offensive and maybe I wasn’t, but then why am I so quick to shy away from that possibility? Just some thoughts.
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Ok so a few people put it really eloquently, but I’m going to put it into my terms:
If I go up to someone and playfully call them a bumblebutt, to me that’s not offensive. To me that’s sorta cool and fun and I enjoy it.
But then if that person says, “Hey, actually, that word is actually really hurtful to me because in my culture bees are a really sacred part of life”, it changes things.I can either go “well wow you’re just being overly sensitive, it’s not even a big deal it’s literally just the word bumblebutt, I’m not calling you a dickhead”, or I can say “ok sure bees are important to you, I know that and respect that, that’s why I’m doing it, because I respect that you love bumblebees, so I’m going to keep saying bumblebutt to show my admiration for your love of bees”.
The problem with the first response is: When someone tells you that you hurt them, you don’t get to decide that you didn’t.
I’ll say that again.
When someone tells you that you hurt them, you don’t get to decide that you didn’t.
I don’t know about you, but if someone tells me that something I’m doing is hurting them, I stop, because I don’t enjoy hurting people.
The problem with the second response is: If they say the word bumblebutt is offensive, and I tell them I’m saying it in a loving and respectful way, it doesn’t matter, because I’m still saying the word bumblebutt, and that word is still offensive to them. It’s an extreme example but if someone burns down my house and says it’s not their intention to offend me when they do it – yo, my house is still being burned down.
So the third response is: “Oh damn, I’m sorry, I didn’t know. I won’t say the word bumblebutt from now on”. Then they will go, “Hey, it’s totally ok that you didn’t know. Thanks for listening and stopping!”
And then we’ll hug and be best friends.
And on their sacred bee day, I’ll send them a text going, “hey, I heard it’s bee day, hope you and your family have a great celebration” and then I’ll be maid of honour at their wedding and everyone is happy.The pole community is a beautiful place, let’s make a real effort to keep it as a safe and respectful place 🙂
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