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Behind the head grip
Hello!
So, I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on this grip that I haven’t figured out yet! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif
I know that when you do the shoulder mount (which I am totally not trying yet!) you do it, just with your whole self a lot lower down. It’s like…your hands behind your head, with your back to the pole, and you hang on that way and you can actually lift your feet up and stay there? I’ve seen it done a couple of times, but I have NO idea how to make it work! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif Are my muscles just not strong enough? Is there something else I can do to help with that? Is there a "baby step" hold that leads into this one that I can get into easier?
Also, are there any specifics to hand placement, shoulders, muscle groups to be kept engaged? Like, should my elbows be at right angles, a little more bent, a little less… https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_geek.gif
I want to try it and practice it! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
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38 Replies
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sorry, i’m a little confused what you’re asking? you’re asking about shoulder mount grip? or something else that is behind the head?
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The only real time I’ve seen it is with a shoulder mount, but I’ve also seen it once before kind of leading into the shoulder mount…perhaps a video would help? I found this in my internet travels…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwNgychsN1Q&feature=email https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_bounce.gif
I know it’s an instructional video, I just can’t seem to emulate her very well. I was wondering if you guys knew of anything I might be doing wrong (like, specific hand placement to make it work) or if I was just not strong enough yet! -
are you trying to do the kicks in the video?
i think i remember you posting about having difficulty inverting a couple months ago. i’d recommend working on pullups and pull up and holds and getting a pullup invert really solid before you start working on the shoulder mount grip.
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Technically, yes, I’d love to do the kicks in the video, and I’ve also seen a slide with that hold, all the way to the floor. I was rather impressed by it.
You have a good point, though, to work on other things than this. I suppose I’m just a little eager! I never really expected to jump right into a full shoulder mount yet, but I thought perhaps just slowly working toward it would help! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_bounce.gif -
Runemist-
In that video, what she neglected to say, is that while your hands are gripping the pole, you should be pulling the with your arms as if you are trying to pull your shoulder into the pole, and also pushing your shoulder against the pole at the same time. If you would like to practice this grip without risking falling, I would suggest doing it from the floor. Sit on the floor with your hips flexed at a 30-45 degree angle with your shoulder leaning against the pole. With your hands in the position, pull the pole into your shoulder as you lift your legs into a straddle and attempt to lift your butt off the floor. This will help you to get an idea of how much strength is needed to execute the move and it will also help you gain the core strength you’ll need to do it successfully. -
Wow Thank you Jenn! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
That was an impressive and easily understood addition that I really needed. I figured I was going for some kind of pulling/pushing thing, but I wasn’t entirely sure how I would do it safely, ’cause somehow the floor thing didn’t seem to work when I tried it… https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif
I will give that a shot, and perhaps with time I’ll have the shoulder mount down https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cool.gif -
Also, In the SM position, as you reach behind you and grap the pole, you can lock your fingers together for extra support.
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Also, In the SM position, as you reach behind you and grap the pole, you can lock your fingers together for extra support.
um i dont know how safe locking the fingers is, especially for someone who is just starting out with this move.
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Oh dear please don’t lock your fingers together if your a beginner….I could see where someone would think it may be helpful but as Karol said not a good idea. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/alien.gif I have the SM lessons up next for my lessons to record, so if you have them be on the look out for the SM. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cyclops_ani.gif
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There are many different hand grips for the shoulder mount also, the one she uses in the vid looks harder than the one I practise with (I too cannot shoulder mount yet) I try with my right shoulder against the pole and my right hand cupped behind the pole, then I put my left hand cupped in front of pole. This way you can use the left hand to help pull up slightly. Hope that makes sense. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cat.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cat.gif
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For my own info, what’s the reason for this? I certainly don’t want to give bad advice or have someone get hurt. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif
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For me personally, I wouldn’t want to lace my fingers because I want as much skin contact with the pole as possible. Lacing takes away one full hand’s worth of skin. Plus if they were laced I wouldn’t be as mobile and could risk torquing a wrist on the way up.
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Hands close together (which is the only way locking the fingers can be done) shouldermount grip that is the least stable and one of the most dangerous. The farther way the hands are from each other the more stable and secure the grip becomes. Also, if you fingers are interlaced and you slip, then there is no way to catch yourself. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_pale.gif
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Funnily enough, standard cup grip with my hands less than 6" apart is the grip that felt most comfortable for me to sm, but I worked really hard on learning to walk up and hold with various grip before I EVER tried to actually flip myself over, cup grip was just what I took to in that process. I waited to actually invert from SM until my holds felt so comfy there was no extra effort involved. Now I’ve started learning the Veena grip, but I can’t comfortably invert that way yet so I’m back to walkups and holds with it. From what I’ve seen, everyone is more comfortable with one over another at first, but unless you’ve got a specific discomfort with a grip they can all potentially be just as safe as the next if you learn them properly and don’t rush the inverting process. The SM in and of itself is not a terribly natural-feeling movement, so strength and stability in any particular grip be it cup, veena, whatever, is dependent on whether you’ve given yourself time to build strength before you go turning yourself on your head. If you don’t have the strength to maintain pressure between pole and shoulder with a cup grip while you’re actually flipping over, you’re going to find yourself making a very graceful dismount *cough*.
In other words, NO sm grip is stable unless you’ve learned to sm properly, and none of them seem to be inherently riskier than the others if you’re willing to take the time to learn slowly and properly, since I’ve seen experienced (read: years) dancers SM with at least 5 different grips. It’s just not worth busting your skull to try to nail some "power-move" the first time you try it. Do your holds like a good student https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
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If both hands are low by the head and locked together you don’t have the same leverage as a grip where the hands are farther apart…. I don’t think anyone was trying to say verticaltherapy was wrong https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/alien.gif ……because there will always a number of thoughts out there as far as technique goes, some might like that grip. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_thumright.gif I was simply saying I personally feel, its not the safest way to learn to SM, because if your hands are close and fingers locked together your not going have the leverage you need, and you can’t let go as fast if you need to.
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I didn’t meant to condone locking the fingers. That’s a bad idea for exactly the reason you said, no way to catch yourself if you fall. I just meant to say as far as all the standard grips go, it seems the key to SM is just patience no matter which grip feels most comfy.
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…And this is why I love this forum. You realize, ladies, that this could have totally exploded in some kind of poop-fligning estrogen-fest, and I probably would have been like "Oh yeah, that’s women for you." I’ve worked with, and spoken to, a lot of women who WOULD start freaking out, just because you disagreed! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rambo.gif
And yet, you guys simply talked it out! It was heartwarming, and makes me wonder if it’s just the town I live in! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
Anyways, I’m not necessarily going to be full-on shouldermounting yet! I know it’s one of the hardest inversions to do, and I know I don’t have the strength for it…but as previously suggested, I might try it from the floor, just to see about the core strength and arm strength required, and also perhaps to exercise those muscles, so that one day I can SM gracefully.
I think I understand Veena’s reasoning behind keeping the hands farther apart, because this can give a person more leverage, and requires less strength (perhaps only slightly), but PDR, could you describe yours for me? Are you suggesting keeping the thumbs and hands together, and cupping the pole behind my head? Or something else?
Sorry, I’m a little sick, and get kind of confused https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif -
Ok! I have learned a hell of a lot on the shoulder mount https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif Everyone’s response was great and actually made me more confident in trying the shoulder mount. NOW I CAN DO THE SHOULDER MOUNT https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif I will still continue to practice from the floor to build strength (more on core) so that I can roll up into it a little more graceful. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_salut.gif
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Runemist: Nope, I use the standard cup grip. It is less stable than some other grips, but it was what felt best for me, so I took particular care with building my strength so I wasn’t taking any unnecessary risks. Just anatomically, that was what was most comfortable with me. I’ve had some troubles with my elbow so some of my first attempts at veena grip and foreward grip, I felt a pinch in my elbow. Now that my joints are stronger, veena grip works too. Using standard cup grip just felt more comfortable to me, and I did go to wikipole and try them all. Cup felt best, so cup’s what I stuck with. What’s really important if you’re going to try any grip, and I think veena put this in her awesome SM lesson, is that the pole be on the correct shoulder for whatever your dominant hand is. Just watch her SM lesson, she talks you through the positioning really, really well.
I wonder why I’m a weirdo and cup felt best. Maybe it’s just because my biceps are so strong, and cup grip utilizes that.
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Now see poledanceromance, you just gave the perfect example of something that isn’t said enough. Everyone need to work within there bodies abilities do what is most comfortable. If a move is painful don’t do it. A good example is when you talked about your elbow and the Veena grip. In ANY exercise or sport your far less likely to have an injury if you work within your Range of motion, everyone is different. I also first learned the SM with the cup grip so your not a weirdo. LOL https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cyclops_ani.gif Remember ladies safety first https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_safesex.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_safesex.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_safesex.gif LOL
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LMAO!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
500 points to Veena for hilarious usage of safe sex icon!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
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poledanceromance your not weird I do the cup grip too…the other grips feel weird to me…everyone’s different though https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
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I really meant no harm! When I first started dancing, I saw the SM done with interlocked fingers. That’s how I tried it, that’s how I learned it, that’s how I practiced it, that’s how I still do it. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_eek.gif But even though it worked for me, the general consensus is that it’s definitely NOT a good way for beginners to learn and for that I’m really sorry. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_redface.gif I really appreciate everyone’s feedback!
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No, no silly don’t apologize! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_geek.gif Its all good https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
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I agree with not locking the fingers together. As mentioned it’s not safe as you will have a more difficult time catching yourself if your hold fails, plus the closeness of the hands provides less leverage. It’s also very bad for the joints of your fingers to put that sort of pressure on them with this grip.
I learned with and prefer the cupped hold however I now can use any grip for the sake of teaching. In the cupped hold your hands would be approximately 6 inches apart for better leverage…I think any further than that and your hold actually becomes less stable once your hips are above your head.
(another tip is elbows should be slightly forward)
A good practice is not so much the leg kicks as she shows in the video from Studio Soiree (though those are good for new/beginners to practice) but as a student gets stronger and ready for this move we recommend half lifts…rolling both knees up together in a reverse crunch up to the pole.
The closer your center of gravity is to the pole, the easier it will be to lift…legs stretched out and away from the pole makes turning up and over more difficult.
So our students are doing half lifts or reverse crunches until they feel more stable and gain the strength to go up and over.
I don’t know what the Veena grip is? I tried to find it but can’t search as the "terms are too common" for the search function and I saw one video on youtube…it appears that after you lift half way you SWITCH from both hands in the cupped hold to what I know as the princess grip where the top hand is turned thumb up while the bottom hand stays cupped.
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