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Competitions vs. Showcases
So from this thread here https://www.studioveena.com/forums/view/IPDFA_is_fake_and_unfair_Soyou_should_not_go_Umm_wtf_20110504091957 I saw that we were beginning a really cool conversation so I thought that I would start a new thread for everyone.
I love showcases and I produce a showcase here in Detroit! I've been lucky enough to have the full support of Veena and Webmaster on all 3 of them which has helped greatly. Because I just put together showcases we've been able to broadcast them live – all 3 of them.
With that being said I have still found that amongst performers of a showcase there is still abit of competetivness – not in a bad way but for example someone may not want to follow someone else because they think the person before them is better. I think some of the same elements that happen at competitions still occur at showcases – the nerves, fears, living up to expectations, going after someone you think is amazing, etc.
Showcases are good grounds to begin performing and find yourself as a performer without the pressure of having judges. Infact, the USPDF was one of my inspirations in putting together a showcase, so many girls WANT to compete for whatever their personal reasons are, they have the moves and skills but many haven't performed ever, or at the least performed pole dancing before a crowd of people. The performance aspect of pole has largely been left to youtube so this was a way to connect dancers and a real audience.
I think BOTH comps and Showcases have their place. The Girls Next Door from what I understand is a showcase, the LA pole show is a showcase – but I think those are more Elite showcases so you'd have to be Estee Zakar to be in them. From an organizer stand point, there seems to be more interest in watching a competition than a showcase. Mega problem, when your the girl putting everything out of pocket. I do my show on a very tight budget but still always lose money on it and often must feel guilty for charging admission fees or performance fees so that I can pay the people that make the show happen like the DJ and the guys who set the poles and stages up. I think froma production stand point, both are difficultt to pull off but the excitement of a winner being crowned tends to draw in more spectators.
With pole being so young I think we will see many more competitions coming up. Some will be well run like the USPDF or the Midwest Comp and some will be run poorly. Some people will do it for the love of pole, others will do it for the love of themselves. I think there's room for tons of different kinds of events and lots of different winners. I think having competitions specefic to styles, geography, showmanship – etc is going to broaden the pole world and the performers in it.
I hope for an equal balance of shows and comps. I also hope that the community continues to respect comeptitors and performers alike and that we can further the growth of this industry and our community 🙂
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25 Replies
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I watched your last showcase live online Charley, I thought it was great!
I like both comps and shows, and for different reasons too. Obviously the thrill of watching the pros compete for a title is very exciting, and we often see newly invented moves at these as the girls (and guys) throw their all into the performances. But there seems to be a real lack of venues for the beginer or intermediate dancer to show off what they have accomplished, and as we were all beginers at one point we know how great it feels to finally be able to pole sit, or to invert without assistance. These things should be celebrated too, and a showcase is a great place to do just that. The other thing is that performing is an art in itself, on top of pole tricks or pole dancing, performing in front of an audience is very different to posting videos on youtube. There are no second takes, no clipping out the parts where you pull your shorts out of your butt https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_surprised.gif or where you stopped to wipe the pole. And how/where do you practice that? Some studios may encourage students to perform in front of the class, but not all do. And what about the ones who don't have a studio, who have learned from Veena, or youtube, or a friend with a pole?
I would love to get "good" enough to compete some day, but realistically even if I thought I was, I would be unlikely to enter a live competition because I have no pole performing experience. That experience is something I would like to have the opportunity to develop now, while I am still learning how to dance and pull off tricks. I wish there were more people like Charley who were willing to organize these types of events. On that note…do I recall you saying that you were doing another showcase in July??? Is that still happening? I would love to come watch a live pole performance, beginer or pro, I have been poling for almost 2 years and never seen anyone perform live.
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Even though I am organizing a competition I much prefer showcases. Showcases are all about "us" and competitions are more about "Me". No matter how supportive you try to be of co-competitors you have to hope in some way they dont' do very well so that you win!
You hear lots of controversy over competitions too. In fact it gets downright ugly! Comments and threads accusing organizers of favoritism, judges of incompetance or unfair judging, outright comparisions, which can be hurtful, that this person should have placed over that person…or that someone shouldn't have placed at all and didnt deserve their title.
You never hear after a showcase any comparision or complaints about fairness because it's all about fun and being supportive.
By the way…the Midwest competition is having an intermediate division: No inverts. We considered a beginner but after thinking it out, we a) couldn't afford so many divisions and b) were concerned that not enough people would really be interested to try out. I wanted it to be more of a basic comp than beginner…in other words, only basic moves. Not beginners who are superstarts and can come out and do a butterfly after poling for 6 months so we would have limited the moves allowed in that division.
That is how we are doing the rookie division…limiting participants that they cannot do any inverts.
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Dustbunny – I am not a great pole dancer by any stretch and I have entered a comp! I think you have to pick one that has levels. Many have some for beginners (no inverts allowed). I'm really nervous about it (I wrote a post on the forum to which no one responded to ask for tips! 🙁 Boo hoo!).
I feel like I could do either. It obviously won't be at the same level as the pros, but that's to be expected. To me both comps and showcases are about sharing your love of pole, having fun putting a routine together and challenging yourself. In one case you might get a meddal or ribbon and a cash prize (comp). But I think I would approach them both in the same way: to have fun. Once you loose sight of that and it becomes about winning then the comp and showcases diverge a lot.
The reason why I entered a comp and not a show case was because I haven't heard of a showcase that I could be a part of (not being at a high enough level of performance).
There is of course room for both 😀
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Dustbunny – the next showcase will be July 16&17. I'd love for you to join us onstage and perform.
I think Showcases are a great place to explore yourself as a performer. I've been the three I've produced and I can say that my creativity has started to come out a lot more and I've started thinking more about performance value than tricks which is going to be helpful if I continue to compete. I get as nervous before a showcase as I do a comp though. I think the difference is competitions push me to perfect and learn, showcase push me to get creative. I think have the chance to do both will make me more confident on both types of stages.
If anyone ever needs help setting up a showcase feel free to pm me. Also even if you're just performing for other students in your class that helps a lot. I love performance based classes because students get the opportunity to perfect, find themselves and experiement. Not everything will translate well but you know in a safe environment with friends you can hear that.
Another idea is to maybe do a pole jam with friends then end with some performances.
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🙁 I won’t be able to perform in the showcase this summer on account of it’s my weekend to work at the hospital (nearly impossible to trade a weekend during the summer). Hope every one has fun & sorry I’ll be missing this event.
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They both have thier own place in what we do. For me a compeititon is mentally and physically exhuasting on me. Ive been comepting my whole life – im a former NCA All-Star cheerleader. I spent many of my weekends at competitons. Now as a compeitior in pole, I push myself in the training sessions harder than I have in the past. Im hitting the gym 2-3 times a week, adding a pole session or two in that week as well. The over aspect takes up alot of my personal time. Thats why I when its all over I take some time off of everything and enjoy whats around me. Ive competed 3 times in Ms Xpose and still havent advanced to the finals. Ive had my moments where I just didnt feel like I was ever going to win and thought about giving it all up. But ive gotten back on the horse and kept trying.
As for a showcase, I havent done one pole-related but I had them in dance class. The pressure is totally off and its just 'lets have fun and show off what weve learned'. Im much more relaxed when I perform at a showcase. Theres no heartbreak and theres always a 'lets celebrate' afterwards.
I want to do a showcase in my area and asked alot of girls if they were interested. Alot them said 'well im no Alethea but I want to help out'. IMO showcases should be about celebrating pole in general – no matter how long youve been doing it. Im working on incoroperating that celebration of pole into this years Battle.
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You already know my thoughts on Showcases vs. Competitions, but I'll say it once again…we NEED more showcases. However, the budget/profiteering opportunities were not something I really give much consideration to. I'm too much of a dreamer not a do'er. I would suppose that, from a business perspective, competitions are more profitable than showcases and that's probably a big reason why there's not very many of them. That's a damn shame. Now it's becoming like I'm too poor to take part in EITHER of these pole events much less classes. Ughhh…back to my little pole room…yet again. 🙁
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@Charley, I'm hoping to be able to come but as a member of the audience for now. 🙂
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This has been something I have been thinking about a lot lately Charley! I would love with all my heart to perform and to have a place where pole dancers could showcase their talents without having to go to the strip clubs for armature nights. I think the showcase concepts are so fun but like with other sports and fine art, people pay more for professional level shows. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif
I finally saw my first completion and honestly, I though I would have wished it had been me up there. BUT I didn't! I realize now, that is not the kind of lifestyle I want right now. I don't have time to train as much as I would like to compete at that level. I have no desire to travel the world doing workshops leaving my kids behind. I missed them so much while I was away in NY! I can travel when they are older. I wish there were more opportunities in the Midwest area….
Anyway….I think completions are great and necessary for pole to continue to grow! I hope to see more comps too! All I know…. for me, if I could have a place where I could perform I would be in heaven! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_heart1.gif
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Again, I PREFER showcases. I think they are the best way to enjoy what we do – at least the best way for me. Veena…I don't think many people consider just how difficult it can be to not only compete but to give up so much of your life for the following year!
Preparing for a showcase can be very stressful too but no where near the intensity of a competition.
That said, as Charley can attest, hosting a showcase is a monumentally unappreciated task. There is a lot of work that goes into organizing such events which people do not realize. It's not like we just grab our home pole and show up someplace and after 15 minutes of set up the show is on.
There is so much work to organizing this event: coordinating music choices, answering COUNTLESS emails and phone calls, complaints about the location (which most of the time was difficult enough to find in the first place) complaints about the pole(s) used for the show,.
It takes time and it takes money. There's the DJ, lighting, waivers and responsbility, programs for the show, an emcee, sponsors if you care to add the touch of door prizes, is alcohol allowed, how to monitor and prevent pre-show drinking among participants. Al of these things cost time and money.
Literally I've had people argue with me, even yell at me prior to the showcases I'vs sponsored both at Midwest and in Jamaica. You deal with egos, princesses, and people who are just plain stressing out and need some support.
Prior to an event I probably spend 75% of my time for two weeks just answering phone calls and emails.
So my point in all of this is not to address you Veena, but the community as a whole about the costs of showcases because so many people think they should be free…or at least a minimal charge. They also do not consider the time and effort the organizer puts into it.
I've actually heard people say that they don't think it's right for the organizer to "make a profit" off of a showcase! Now I've spent money out of pocket so far on the showcases I've organized but I do hope to some day actually come out ahead. I am not a non-profit organization and I think that all showcase organizers deserve some compensation for the work that goes into this.
Putting on a showcase is nearly as involved as organizing a competition but people expect to participate and attend showcases for little to no cost.
I'm not saying that anyone who is reading this does not appreciate the work that goes into a showcase or would complain about paying an entry fee – but I am hoping that the more people who are aware that this IS a problem we have with others who attend such events, the more everyone can get the word out that none of these events are cheap to run!
To be honest, right about now I'm wishing I had organized the Great Midwest Showcase instead of the Great Midwest Competition!! LOL
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Empy – You hit the nail on the head. Theres alot of behind the scenes work that most people dont know about. Honestly I didnt even know about event insurance until I ran my event. Its even harder when your the only one getting the work done. Its alot of work to do what we do – as both a perfomer/competitor and as an organzier. With the battle, I actually lost money. Which I kinda knew it was going to happen since this was my first event. Theres alot of things ive learned from putting that event on. And I know what to do for next time!
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I was in no way saying a showcase should be free!!!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_eek.gif I don't think anyone else on this thread meant that either. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
People rarely appreciate what it takes to put on any kind of event and unfortunately this it just how it is. Charley has done an amazing job and this is why we support her even if I can't make it to a showcase. We need to stop focusing on what others are saying about an event whether its a comp or a show. People bad mouth and get bitchy. You will never get everyone to understand how much work you put into something….I know this. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif Let's not waste energy on things we can't change, (like other ppl)…. But rather use our energy to continue to bring pole to new people. As I told Charley in chat, many of the people in this world that make the biggest difference are also the ones who are acknowledged the least……..
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Thanks Veena – I know that most people realize the work that goes into this and as a community it helps for everyone to be supportive of the organizers and events.
I think it would be great if at some point the Midwest had some show similar to The Girl Next Door but that would be such a huge production and work.
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"As I told Charley in chat, many of the people in this world that make the biggest difference are also the ones who are acknowledged the least…….."
This is SOOOOO true!
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Showcases should def. not be free! People pay to go see any other type of performance art, so yeah… I guess it's hard to get the numbers? Is that why profits are hard to come by?
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Thanks Empy….we know you care about us on SV! It's professionals like yourself that help make the site great! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_heart1.gif
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At Lopsi – I think that people enjoy competition more because there is a winner but we do have a great support group here is Detroit and the midwest that come from all over including Canada to watch and participate. I feel very blessed and overwhelmed sometimes think about the support we've gotten in the pole community. SV has broadcast every single showcase which is awesome because we can include MORE people from the community that way.
Any event is hard to manage and put together, I feel like competitions bring out more people because they think maybe the talent is better? I don't know because every showcase I have ever been to, my socks have been knocked off and I've been blown away but the amazing men and women we have performing pole!!!!! I've been inspired and excited to pole for WEEKS after.
I've only been a part of one real competition and it was a lot of fun but a lot of work and the nerves were terrible. At a showcase you know everyone will love you because it's not judgy at a comp you feel like the whole audience is judging you and you aren't living up to their expectations – or that's how I felt. I felt raw after competing and spent – there is so much more emotion going on.
The great thing about comps is that it brings attention to the level of difficulty involved with pole and further legitimizes it in the mainstream audience minds. Plus competitions push you to be your best and perfect things and polish up. They make you get creative and force you push yourself harder than you normally would. I mean we push hard for shows but much harder at comps – it's a different kind of performance. Both at fun and necessary to the growth of pole.
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I'd love to throw in my two cents, maybe I can spur some ideas that will help move the concept of showcases and competitions forward for pole.
First, we are hard-wired to enjoy watching competitions. Competition is how pecking order was established in earlier times and is still how the majority of the animal kingdom works out first and last in social units. Competitions naturally have more draw than a showcases because of this.
As to showcases, think about all the showcases that happen around us every day, radio personalities, television shows, sales pitches, construction work and even your line of work. Everything that we do as people are simply showcases of the our talents, regardless of whether someone sits down and watches us or not. The point being that maybe a showcase isn't just setting people down and make them watch people's pole tricks one after another. Maybe there are other options, the first thing that comes to mind is to use your participants to tell a story, people love stories it is engaging and will bring them back. I also remember being at a club in san francisco called Ruby Sky, they had a belly dance troupe backing the dj for the night and they worked for a share of the liquor sales. I think of Veena's ET video where she combined her pole skills, dance skills, creativity, story telling and video production to create a whole that was greater than any one of her many talents. Or Charley's performance at the last detroit showcase where she really pushed to say something with her dance.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to whether a competition or showcase should be free or not, that is entirely up to the planner of the event to work out the economics on their own, and whatever they decide they need to be willing to defend just as you would with any business.
Finally, whatever you choose to do, know why you chose to do it and what you hope to accomplish. Armed with this knowledge your critics and detractors will have absolutely no power over you because they certainly don't understand your goal or strategy and you will see that their criticism is most definitely self serving. Without a goal and strategy in mind you will aim at many targets, and you will feel like a failure when someone tells you that you didn't do something right and it will drag you down and make you feel unnapreciated.
Hopefully this is helpful to some in this thread.
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Very thoughtful insights Webmaster. Thank you for sharing! Gives us all some things to think about.
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Charley, you're making me nervous as I just entered my first one. I have SO much to work on. I do step arounds and am out of breath… haha!
I'm trying to stay possitive and tell myself that if I don't fall and break my neck it's good. If I have a huge smile on my face that's a win!
Today's practice was a complete fail: I'm sooooo sore from Sunday's!!! HMPH! How you girls do it, I don't yet know, but sure hope to find out!
xxxx
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Veena, you are so bloody talented, you could do a professional showcase! I'd pay to watch you, but lucky me I get you for free on my computer 🙂 (Ooooo that sounds slightly pervey… sorry…. I really don't mean it in a creepy way!).
I hope you find somewhere to perform live 🙂
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As a pole dancer, that would most likely be traveling to attend as an audience member, I would have absolutely no problem paying to see a showcase.
Not only will this help the promoters/ showcase managers / owners recoop their investment, but it shows support to our fellow pole dancers and their talent as well as the art / sport itself.
We live in a time where we DO pay for entertainment. We pay to see a movie.. we pay to see a circus…we pay to see hockey games.. etc etc etc.
Why wouldn't we be supportive of a production that featured something we all know and love so much?
🙂
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First off: Charley, you have done an amazing job coordinating the showcases. I know you must have paid a ton of your own money to put on the first two and I, personally, didn't feel that a modest entry fee was amiss at all! (Especially when you took the time to explain why you were charging the fee ie to pay for MC and DJ which most people assume is free). I also know that you have spent a considerable time managing the "drama" aspect and soothing nerves and so forth.
As for people who object to paying a participation fee to showcases, I would like to make an analogy: showcases are basically recitals. Those of you who have participated in recitals in the distant or not-so-distant past know that they are NOT free. Dancers usually have to pay a participation fee which, in my experience, ranges from $10/person to $100/ person. In addition to that, the audience usually has to pay a entrance fee which I've seen range from $5/person to $30/person. That money was necessary just to cover the COST of putting on the show.
Back in the day when I did recitals we all understood even at an early age that recitals did not just spring forth from nowhere and that there was a great deal of planning and effort involved. In fact, if we were caught grumbling in front of the wrong person about the price, we were often sat down and explained exactly WHY the fees existed.
Maybe the people who object to participation fees have never been in recitals, or just never have given much thought as to why there need to be some fees involved.
My bet is that if every showcase organizer was given half of minimum wage for every hour they spent planning/assisting/organizing/counseling particpants/easing fears/answering questions for every showcase, simply put no one would be able to afford to participate.
Showcases, in addition to competitions, have a very real place in our pole community for the reasons stated in others' posts. It would be a shame if they were to just 'go away' because no one could afford to host them because we all expected them to be free.
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Thanks Crowningglass. I never knew recitals came with associated fees – then again I think everything does, lol!
I will say though – no matter what event is being put on – there's drama! From being a competitor – I can say that the organizers – Wendy and Anna – were running around like crazy making sure everyone was okay and had what they needed – everything from lunch to water to soothing nerves, answering questions. They were totally accessible. From the time we were accepted as finalist until the day of the show – they were totally available to us to watch videos, music selection, answer any questions no matter how stupid and I had a ton of stupid questions. Plus the amount of work that goes into have the stage built, poles put up, DJ and lighting and getting with 12 girls to sort out their lighting.
No matter WHAT kind of event you're putting on – I think you have to do it for the love of pole – I mean I cannot imagine what Jessalyn must go through putting on Pole Convention?!?!
I hope to see more large scale productions – whether conventions or showcases that promote pole in the togetherness aspect, I think competitions will always have their place but I think events about unity truly make us strong.
It 's important that we attend and support the events we can – I'm not saying go broke doing pole things, but I think community excitement and participation is really important.
And enough about ME lol, I just saw people chatting back and forth about showcases and comps and thought it deserved it's own platform.
Only thing I can say about the Detroit Showcases – is that once the music starts and you see the first dancer up there – the world is right, no matter what drama or nerves is going on.
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Agreed about Pole Convention. I know Id email her from time to time about questions and she was great about answering them or even offering suggestions. Shes always so calm and cool about it all but I know inside shes freaking out from all the stress.
I want to put on a showcase in my area since we has so much talent and places to learn, teach etc. I just dont have time right now (darn my responsbilites as a parent! lol)
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