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Why is the front hook spin so much harder than the back hook?
I learned the back hook spin from Veena's lessons, and this week I got my Art of Pole DVD's volumes 1 & 2. The front hook spin is one of the first spins taught by Jamilla and I gave it a try. But I just can't do it! I hook my inside leg and go into the spin, and then one of two things seem to happen:
1. My outside leg wants to come up beside the hooked inside leg kinda like a chair spin. When this happens, my hips stay level and the spin looks good, just totally not a proper hook spin at all.
2. Or I manage to get my knees open and my feet sort of together, but the rest of my body is totally messed up. My outside leg is nowhere near the level of the inside hooked leg; instead my hips are falling to the outside and my outside leg is much lower. It looks sloppy, like I'm falling around the pole instead of spinning, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
When I do the back hook spin, I can get my knees open and my feet together, and my shins are level with eachother and parallel to the floor. If I can get the position right on the back hook, why can't I on the front hook?
Is it just me? Or is the front hook actually harder to do than the back hook?
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14 Replies
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I don't think one is necessarily harder than the other but the front hook takes more steps.
Here's some troubleshoooting on this.
Most people tend to keep their inside leg hooked to high – you do not need to hook high up on the pole, just think about draping your knee around the pole rather than "hooking" it.
Lead with your hips and arch your back, many times new students to this move will not lead with the hips which means they kind of end up sitting back into it and looks kind of like a froggy.
The spin you describe where your outside leg wants to meet your inside leg on the pole is called the closed front hook and is a perfectly pretty spin but again you sit back into this more than you do on the front hook. On the front hook your body should be leading the pole, this means your body should be slightly in front of it. Don't start the spin behind the pole start in front of it – you'll be less likely to hook the inside knee to high and you'll also be less likely to sit back into but rather push your hips out. It also helps to tilt your head back once you get the mechanics because tilting your head back will help you think about pushing your hips out and arching your back.
I hope that helps 🙂
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I also found the Front Hook harder then the Back Hook when I was starting out (and still don't like it as much, even 1.5 years later!). I find I never get as much momentum with the front hook.
My advice is to not worry about getting your feet together and knees open. I teach students to just pick up the outside leg and somehow bring it back behind the pole–either bent at the knee so that the foot is reaching toward the butt, or just slightly bent with the ankle behind the pole. I find that until someone is comfortable with the spin, it's not worth doing much with that back leg.
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As I have said before…my method of teaching is different than other popular methods….Most spins don't fall into beginner moves in the Veena method. I do not consider the Front hook a beginner move. You do need more upper body strength to perform a Front hook! So your not imagining it https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
In the back hook you can really engage your shoulders and use the bicep as well because the inside arm is bent at the elbow allowing you to also hold your body up with your bicep there for allowing the pole to be tucked nicely in between the upper torso and inside arm. This position has a lot of stability.
The Front hook however, your moving forward and this time the inside arm is high so most of your weight is being held with your inside fully extended arm and this does not allow you to you your bicep like the back hook. Your left only to rely on your inside shoulder and hand to hold you up!!
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It's also a good idea to get the closed front hook down first anyway because you have more of your body on the pole. I always teach closed hook before open.
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I also find the front hook to be more difficult than the back hook.
One reason is that this is, generally, the first spin people learn where the momentum is generated with the inside leg instead of the outside leg. This can be quite awkward until you get the hang of it.
The front hook also requires more core strength. When you're doing a back hook, your body is snug up beside the pole, so the pole helps you stay perfectly vertical. With the front hook though, your body is actually several inches away from the pole, so you have to rely on your core to keep your hips level. If you look at videos of these two moves closely, you can see the difference in body placement.
And, as Charley mentioned, a common mistake when learning this move is to hook the inside leg too high on the pole. This also leads to a droopy outside hip.
Good luck! It will come with practice!
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Umm, forgive me, but with the incredible amount of names that some moves can have, I'm having a difficult time knowing which spin you're talking about. I think "front hook" and most people think "Sunwheel" or "Fireman with attitude" or whatever, so…
Could I get a video? Or even a picture? 🙂
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I never liked it much until I seen Leigh Ann do a real sexy variation of it. Now I am determined to make it look gorgeous and graceful! Like you, EagleSpirit, I found the back hook far easier. My biggest issue was not feeling secure in holding myself in place and allowing myself to go forward around the pole. You will get it eventually, I used to HATE this spin and now I really want to get a sexy Leigh Ann front hoot down! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
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AHA! This is actually one of my most-used spins, and I do it nearly automatically (when I can't think of anything else to do!), but it took me a long time to get it all in order.
First, I did learn this spin originally with legs together. It still freaks me out to do it that way (which means I still need practice) and, to be honest, I can't really get this one to look right on the left side, only my right, dominant side.
One of the main issues I had with this was how to get into it. This is a very "chest first" move. As Veena said, your main, weightbearing arm is straight, which unfortunately means you must have some strong shoulder muscles to keep from hurting yourself! But, anyways, what I mean by "chest first" is that, I found, I have to thrust my chest forward into the spin, rather than allow myself to shrink back…thus making things more like the chair spin, in my mind.
I think about it like jumping in, with all enthusiasm…chest first, and go for it. Feel free to keep your legs closed at first, because I'm told that's easier for some. And yes, this one's tough. Keep at it! I know you can get it 😉
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The lopsided hips things is VERY common with this move. As others have mentioned – it is often due to hooking your inside leg too high, and not leading with your chest.
I tell my students to think of thrusting their hips forward (like guitarists do when they slide forward on their knees at the end of a song *wink*). It can also help to think of keeping your shins parellel to the floor, and arching your back a lot. REALLY push your torso out, and tuck in your butt for this one!
Also as Veena says – the front hook does require more upper body strength. That's also why we teach the closed front hook (where you do NOT thrust forwards or arch your back, and instead stay a little tucked with the pole tight in your knee) before the open.
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Wow, thank you all for the replies! Everything makes so much more sense now. I will use your suggestions and try again during my next practise, which will hopefully be today. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
Polefairy, is there a video on youtube that shows Leigh Ann doing her variation of the front hook? I'd love to see it!
Veena, from what I have seen of these two tapes, I find your lessons much easier to progress with. Some of these moves on volume one seem, at least to me, to be quite advanced. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif
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There is indeed. It's one of my fave pole videos ever, even though it's quite simple, she dancer her heart out. If you Youtube Leighann La Tortura you should find it. I think she does the spin relatively near the beginning of the video.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQwp4Iz1Nyc Leigh Ann's variation at 0.28.
I call this 'extended front hook' (or 'extended front knee spin'). Its excecution is quite different from closed and open front hooks. You have to start leaning or falling forward into the move, and then whip your outside leg around, as if it is trying to 'catch up' with your body. 🙂
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hey fern– that's the same as a regular open front hook– you should be leading with your hips regardless, and the spin starts when you push your hips forward, wrapping your inside leg lightly on the pole, and push off the outside foot at the same time. in leighann's variation, instead of just pushing off with that outside leg, and bringing that outside leg up to mirror the inside leg– as soon as you push off with your outside foot, you sit your hips back as you bring your outside leg on top of your inside leg. it's not as complicated as it looks, once you master a regular open front hook.
you can also bring that outside foot down after you push off, drop your inside foot at the same time so that your feet are both on the ground, and go right into a pretty back arch.
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I had to read your reply a few times to picture exactly what you mean in my head. And I think we are actually describing the same technique?
You are right that you should lead with your hips in both the open front hook, and the extended open front hook. Re-reading my post now I can that when I said 'lean' it sounded like I meant to lead with your forehead. Instead I meant to start the momentum of that move (usually by pushing with the outside leg, as amy says, but you can also push your chest/hips out and start 'falling' round the pole as well), and then whip your second leg. If you watch Leight Ann's vid closely, you will see her outside leg does lag behind for just a second, before she extends it. Sorry for the confusion!
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