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Sexuality and Pole Dancing
So, this has been bugging me since I first got into poling. Why do we have to deny that pole dancing is sexual??? For that matter, LIFE is sexual. I mean, none of us would exist if it weren’t for hundreds of thousands of years of sex!! The sexual energy is one of the most powerful forces we have, yet we are supposed to deny it. Why do we have to insist — "its only for fitness!" Heck — healthy sexuality IS part of fitness.
I really want to start a "sexual pole" movement, as it seems hardly anyone is doing that. The girls who are dancing in "sexually oriented businesses" are not (as a whole) doing sexual dancing — they are doing business.
Don’t get me wrong… I’m not advocating mass masturbation sessions or anything… It’s about energy. Where in your normal life can you be full-on sexy and attractive without having to "do" anything about it?? Men have the whole testosterone thing to keep their fires going all the time, but we women need more.
Love YOURSELF!! You are the sex partner that you will ALWAYS have. Claim your power for yourself! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif<whew! that was a RANT!>
Somehow that didn’t come out as elegant as I want, but I’m tired from our pole jam. What do y’all think?Mindy
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61 Replies
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i loved this…this is something i have been kinda 50/50 on for a while…while part of the reason i started was the fitness aspect, the whole sexy side of it definately attracted me to it as well! i have tried explaining this to some of my fam, and they think there is something wrong with me, almost! i come from a super-conservative home, and the prospect of doing something, being "sexy" or anything of a sexual nature is pretty well shunned..idk! i love it–sexuality and all! it all comes down to loving yourself, as you said, and more or less embracing your sexual side! so..well put! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
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I like this post. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif
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You know, I’ve always believed that sexuality, and sensuality, is a part of good pole dancing, but also that it can manifest in many different ways for different people.
We’ve had a few dancers come out and say "I can’t dance sexy!" and I, personally, think it’s an unfortunate social bias. Touching ourselves (such as running a hand down from neck to hip and up again), splaying our legs (helicopter, anyone?) and other things I can’t think of right now don’t HAVE to be part of a dance to have the dance be sexual. On the other hand, for some people these things are very sexual.
Everyone has their own version of sexuality, we’re all different in how we attract our bedmate, whoever that may be, and that person we attract likely doesn’t think much of it. For some women, it’s the vulnerability, the absolute drop of that "big, strong person" part of ourselves, allowing ourselves to be vulnerable, to be seen and known by others. For other people, it’s doing something taboo, something that we "shouldn’t do," whether it was our family, our society, or ourselves that say such. For yet others, it may even BE that big, strong person that is our sexy self! Feeling powerful, tall and in control!
What I’m trying to say is that I agree entirely…I like the sexy side of pole dance, I enjoy it very much. I think one of the reasons Felix won the world championship was because she IS sexy, in her own way, and people could see that.
Now, as I said before, the people we attract by being sexy may not think anything of it, they might just think "That’s sexy!" However, on the flipside, people may look at that person being sexy and go "I don’t think that’s very sexy." They aren’t the type of person we would normally attract, and they don’t see what we’re doing as "sexy" at all…but that doesn’t mean we aren’t being sexy!So, my conclusion (I didn’t mean to go on and on!) is that everyone needs to explore and learn their own sensual, sexy selves, because it’s not the same for everyone. I love the idea of exploring that aspect of our own dance, though!
To say that "Pole dancing is just for fitness!" is, for me, for people who either have another outlet for their sexual selves, or they’re afraid to be "labelled" or whatever, and don’t want to delve into that aspect.Thank you for saying something about it! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
Disclaimer: Just my opinions. This can be a touchy subject, and I don’t want anyone offended https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cat.gif
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This is such a interesting subject! I want to post my opinion, and i hope no one takes it the wrong way… please! love you all! hehe https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_sunny.gif
Anyway, I got to a point with my pole dancing almost two years ago, (when I started my contortion videos) that I really didn’t like my pole dancing being connected with a "sexy" dance.
Anytime it was thought of as sexy I felt the response was negative and discriminatory from men and women.
After I had my daughter I got my breasts fixed and I wear a size DD, with dancing i really kind wished I was normal size or a C, I couldn’t get a smaller size because I didn’t want a reduction as it would scar my pectoral muscles and skin.(it also was alot more expensive than what I had) I feel like I always get sexual attention from men so dancing is not a outlet for me. I hate it when a male friend or family member sees my pole and thinks i’m doing something dirty. Or when men and women who know nothing about it (and this is true) say "only whores get on the pole" or call it a "stripper pole" continuously. My husband’s family is South American and traditional, and they have never understood my dancing. It is such a part of my life and I cant even express how happy it makes me to get more students or land a new competition opportunity.
When i see pole dancing, ever since the very first video I watched. I saw it as some other worldly form of anti-gravity dancing. Like the dancers were almost not human. It was so beautiful to me, and I suppose it makes me sad when others don’t see it as I do. I wish poles were never at strip clubs and our pole dancing would have zero stigma like the Chinese circus poles.
I wish alot more dancers would take off their platform shoes and either be barefoot or wear regular heals and it would help this process along. But this is just one persons opinion, its all situational, someone who finds it as a great outlet and has no problem with expressing their sexuality in a harmless manner is not going to feel the same way as me. I had a student recently who told me she found pole dancing as a way to feel confident in her body, because she never felt confident or sexy (and she had 10 years ballet experience) she told me it helped her so much to be able to dance on it and feel like she looked good and others thought she looked sexy and therefore helping her self-image. (that is also a time when pole dancing in a sexual form can be beneficial)
I am just a product of my experiences and preferences , environment , past and desires, as are we all.
Anything can be used for something positive or negative , it is up to the person to make it that way.
Just thought another perspective would be interesting, also to explain why i feel that way.
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As I’m not really comfy using the words "my" and "sexuality" in anywhere near close proximity, I will just say that the first time I ever encountered pole dancing was at a strip club, and I wanted to get lost in the aerial sport factor of it, but the sexual element was there because, well, duh. Heh. And all it did was make me uncomfortable. I offended one of the dancers because she was trying to be sexy and look me in the eyes and I pretty bluntly turned away from her. I didn’t even do it on purpose, I just got so instantly embarrassed that I looked down. I felt really bad. If it was a woman I had known personally, where I could appreciate the personality driving the sexual energy, maybe I wouldn’t have felt so awkward. But she looked at me like I was expecting her to flirt with me, and that made me feel 100% awful.
Just think, for example, uspdf having floor work requirements….good lord I hate doing floor work! It’s just uncomfortable for me, I can’t figure out how I’d do floor work that doesn’t make me feel like I’m dancing too sexy. And I hate that it’s somehow thought of as an expected portion of a routine. No one expects an aerial silks performer to do floor work. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif
Sometimes I just feel people *expect* sexuality in pole dancing, and when I see that expectation in non-dancers who find out what I do, it makes me feel instantly objectified. A woman should never have to feel she is "expected" to be sexual in any of her pursuits if that’s not what she wants. Owning your own sexuality as an adult means you also have the right to not show it to anybody else if you don’t want to, or the right to put it out there if you do.I’ll repeat the disclaimer that this is not intended to judge anyone’s dance style. Some of my favorite dancers bust some pretty blatantly sexy moves, and I can appreciate watching, and I’m not saying dancers who have a sexual style are slutty or showy or anything like that. I just personally don’t feel comfortable projecting it, so it bugs me to think I could never get away from that image of pole being tied to sex.
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Mmm! In my adult life, I’m so very inside of myself. I do chores, run errands, hold conversations, hold myself upright. I compile lists, I pay bills, I make sure my mother is happy, my husband is happy, my numerous pets are happy. I do not sunbathe nude, or light candles in my bath tub. When I lotion, it’s purely functional.
When I dance, I am not inside of myself.. or inside of my body. I am my body. It’s.. almost like sex in that regard, that I am not a soul within a shell.. but an entire pulsing being! I’m nolonger the mind that sits in the body on the couch, reading whatever garbage I’ve picked up that week. I’m not the person halfway in and halfway out of the world driving down whichever street in whichever traffic. I’m not the girl doing yoga, pretending that I’m miles and miles away laying on a beach while I push through whatever miserable pose I’m in. I AM MY BODY. Not a body, extension of the mind.. just body. Pulsing, living, feeling, sensing body.
so. for me. dancing alone, with the pole, no cameras no gawkers no husband no nothing.. just dancing, is extremely extremely sensual.
but I also think there’s a difference between dancing by yourself and dancing with others! Kind of like it’s a private sensuality? I dunno.
I’m just kind of throwing thoughts at the wall here. I ENJOY this post. Thinking on it. I don’t want to ignore it, but I can’t put everything I feel while dancing into words. So… just an attempt. ;0
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Amcut, I totally agree with you! When I dance, I feel the same…sometimes it doesn’t come, and I get frustrated. But sometimes, when I can let go, I dance and it’s like I become the movement, everything flows…
I think about it in a similar way to my writing. When I write, and it doesn’t come easily, I’m frustrated. I start and start and start again, and just can’t seem to get the words, the mood, the right flow. The writing goes off track from what I wanted. But, when it works…oh, the words just come, the sentences in my head full formed, I can hear it in my head, see the scene and the conversation, the tension between the characters. I become the story outlet, rather than the godlike figure deciding what to write down. Editing comes later, this is pure energy. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
Sapphire, I have E sized boobs. I feel your pain! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif
One day, my hope is that I have freedom of movement, flexible and strong enough to do anything I want with the pole, the same as my mind is strong and flexible. That way, I can do any move I want, any move I feel is the natural progression from the last. It’s hard, though, eh?
I’ve seen lots of amazing dancers that don’t do the "sexy" thing, and lots that have! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif -
Yeah! I’m so glad folks are discussing this. Sometimes I feel like "sex" is the elephant in the room we can’t talk about.
I guess I have two issues… 1) Pole dancing and sexuality, and 2) sexuality and culture
It seems as if we are constantly bombarded with two big messages — SEX!!!! and Sex is BAD!!! (so, you need to pay a lot for it!) This bugs the hell out of me. Humans are the most sexual animals on this planet. We are the only females that have intercourse when we are not fertile. And we are very successful animals! Supposedly, sometime in our history, the human population almost went extinct, and only a small tribe was left… Like maybe only 100 people… And they repopulated the planet! That’s a lot of sex.
So, I have a really hard time seeing sex as bad. Yet, I’m given that message all the time. I feel so fortunate to have had parents that didn’t tell me sex was bad. I’ve always responded to music in a way that is very sensual/sexual. As a kid, my favorite part of watching movies at home was the music in the credits. I would writhe around on the ground, feeling, dancing… I know what you mean Amcut about being your body. It’s hard to just be if my mind has to be on alert for "this is sexual, cut it out!" I believe that sexual energy and creativity are very much the same… In dancing, in writing, in painting, in anything that lets your soul flow through your body. Maybe if I referred to it as "passionate" rather than "sexual", that would be better…
For pole, I don’t want it to ONLY be sexual or only be fitness. I want freedom to move the way I want, the way that music moves me. I think its funny that I can tell people I do West Coast Swing dancing, and they think nothing of it… But it can be a very sexy dance, and it’s a partner dance. My connection with my partner is almost always sexual, in part, and I’m proud that I connect the same way with almost anyone I dance with. I only turn that part off if I feel like its making my partner uncomfortable.
But if I tell people that I pole dance — which I do mostly by myself, in my own house — they fill in all this "dirty" stuff in their minds.I suppose my fantasy is to have a sort of "women’s temple" kind of atmosphere to dance in… I love dancing by myself, but I’m also a big ham! Being onstage with no audience gets old! I want to be able to dance and not worry about being "too sexy" — in fact, I want to celebrate being sexy!
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Ah, Mindy, this is exactly what I meant! I agree, it shouldn’t JUST be one or the other! It should be whatever we want it to be! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_sunny.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cat.gif
And yes, Swing dancing can be quite sexual. I remember it in highschool! I could only dance with one guy though (and he was gay, and thus not attracted to me) and he made me feel like a yo-yo. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif -
I’ve told and do tell everyone (except my employer) that I have a pole at home and take lessons. They all keep telling me how great pole dancing is for my fitness, weight loss, muscle toning etc. It’s like they’re reassuring themselves for some reason. I enjoy most the few friends who bag me out and tell me I have a stripper pole, dance in my undies and should get paid to flaunt it. I love that pole studios (at least mine?) really promote the sex aspect. I am completely fine with either pure fitness or totally hot n sexy, or any of the inbetween. I only care about my employer knowing I pole dance because the casual me is whatever it happens to be to whoever, but the work me is a character I play and am careful to portray correctly. Pole dancing certainly does not fit in to ‘conservative, safe and personally boring’.
I’d love to be thought of as a sexy pole dancer. I’m still trying to find my dance style… the one that’s comfortable for me, suits my body shape and I can go to everytime when my mind goes blank. We learn ‘sexual’ moves in classes in routines, and I never realised how ‘sexual’ they were… until I went out clubbing for the first time in ages and all the girls just had their knees locked together and swayed their hips a tiny bit, and maybe put their hands up and down a little if they were adventurous…. So, anything around a pole with a little flourish is uber-sexual in comparison…lol. I’d really love to be able to move well enough to be thought of as an exotic dancer. I only dance barefoot most of the time because I fall over in heels https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_razz.gif
As to actual sex… I suppose being fitter helps with that, but trying to seduce my bf with it just makes us both crack up laughing and lose it…lol.
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Even a Chinese pole, with a maleperformer, can be sexual. I think there is a great deal of sexiness in this Chinese pole video of Remi Martin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaB_0LUGfjQ"
Saphirecatzeye, your opinion is really interesting. I think contortionism is *definitely* viewed by some folks as *very* sexual – the whole "sexy flexy" (bendy in bed) thing! Does that annoy you?
Personally, I’m so in awe at the superhuman strengths and abilities of gymnasts, contortionists, pole dancers, aerial acrobats alike that the presence of heels, a sculpted male torso, or booty popping doesn’t even register on my scandal-o-meter!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
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Yeah! I’m so glad folks are discussing this. Sometimes I feel like "sex" is the elephant in the room we can’t talk about.
I guess I have two issues… 1) Pole dancing and sexuality, and 2) sexuality and culture
It seems as if we are constantly bombarded with two big messages — SEX!!!! and Sex is BAD!!! (so, you need to pay a lot for it!) This bugs the hell out of me. Humans are the most sexual animals on this planet. We are the only females that have intercourse when we are not fertile. And we are very successful animals! Supposedly, sometime in our history, the human population almost went extinct, and only a small tribe was left… Like maybe only 100 people… And they repopulated the planet! That’s a lot of sex.
(science nerd warning) Dolphins also have sex for pleasure. We are the only two known species that do. Also, we were reduced to 1000 breeding adults, several thousand if you count those who were too old or too young to breed at the time. You know what saved us? We discovered shellfish and subsisted off that for generations. Go figure. (/science nerd)
I think you all make great points, because of course being present in your body is what you have to do to really dance. Sometimes I know when I am really in the moment is when someone would tell me that I look sensual or passionate or sexy, but that usually could not be farther from what I’m feeling. Dancing to me is not always sexy. In fact, it tends to be quite painful. I dance to get my troubles out, and often times I find myself on the ground after a spin and just…falling over on my pole and sobbing. Which doesn’t feel too sexy (also why there aren’t any recordings of me that don’t involve performing some specific trick.)
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For me as far as pole dancing is concerned. I love love love the sexual element of it. I just do. I think my own personal dance style will always have some sort of sexual undertones in most of it, but…. that can be turned on and off. I’ve always been very open about my sexuality and body and this may have something to do with my outlook on it. I think a strong sensual dance is beautiful.
When I dance barefoot to an upbeat song I rarely roll my hips and grind the pole, but once I put those shoes on and a slow song comes on my movement changes and there’s nothing wrong with that. I’ve always compared pole dance to ball room dancing, where the pole is the dance partner. In ball room there are sexy seductive dances, fun upbeat party dances and classical slow regal dances. And to me there’s nothing wrong with any of it.
I think we as pole dancers feel the need to defend ourselves all the time and claim that our dancing isn’t sexual because we respect it as an art and want others to do the same. I don’t know many people who respect what the girls do in the clubs as art so we are always quick to point out the difference. There are different aspects to pole dancing just as with any other type of dancing. It can be whatever you want it to be. And if it’s sexy for you, you shouldn’t feel bad for that.
As soon as I tell people I pole dance and have a pole at home they say "Oh I bet Reggie loves that" or they call me a freak. They’re always suprised to hear that I have only danced for Reggie like 3 times and that he rarely ever sees me pole. It’s so much more then what first comes to most peoples mind. But…as our numbers grow and it gets more and more popular, people will get it.
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Even a Chinese pole, with a maleperformer, can be sexual. I think there is a great deal of sexiness in this Chinese pole video of Remi Martin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaB_0LUGfjQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
Saphirecatzeye, your opinion is really interesting. I think contortionism is *definitely* viewed by some folks as *very* sexual – the whole "sexy flexy" (bendy in bed) thing! Does that annoy you?
Personally, I’m so in awe at the superhuman strengths and abilities of gymnasts, contortionists, pole dancers, aerial acrobats alike that the presence of heels, a sculpted male torso, or booty popping doesn’t even register on my scandal-o-meter!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
I LOVE that performance by remi martin! for me i see it as the furthest away from being sexual , the song ‘Hope there’s someone’ by Antony & Johnsons is so emotional , and if you look up him playing it live on YouTube he is known for showing such passion in his singing. I just feel it was pure beauty and expression. Like Remi was connecting to Antony’s feelings though dance. but thats just how i see it.
And after you mentioned it about contortion being viewed as sexy, I know people do see it that way. But it doesnt have the stigma like pole dancing does. I’ve also had alot more guys think its weird and painful looking than respond the other way. (in my personal at-home life not internet) But i’m also a big fantasy (books and movies) fan, so I see contortion and pole as forms to take you to ‘another world’ almost https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif -
love Remi Martin!
Anyway, go ahead and label me!! I love pole dancing because it is sexy and sensual! It’s great fitness..but honestly that’s not why I started. I wanted to recleaim the sensuality I thought that I had lost! It allows us to move our bodies they way they were intended…fluid and curvy! Yes I sway my hips when I walk and I stick my boobbies out! I love dancing in undies and a bra and most of the time in some 7" heels…gotta love em! But there are times that I love to dance barefoot…makes me feel so connected to the earth…which is sensual and emotional! Why ignore it and pretend it’s not there?? I don’t! If I could I would love to study all of the best exotic dancers out there! Why? because they move like lava flowing down the mountain side! So smooth and sureal….but with a lot of force!!
I love this thread! I have always been the "black sheep" of my family in terms of how I view sex and sensuality! It is why we are here…and how my two gorgeous kids were made! I celebrate it everyday!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
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It would seem that no matter how gentle I phrase my opinion, it’s still going to piss someone off. I meant no offense to anyone, I apologize for getting anyone upset.
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I think its funny that barefoot is considered less sexy! I dated a man w/ a thing for bare feet, so to me, they are the ULTIMATE sexy. When I’m in heels, I’m just walking. When I’m barefoot, I’m pointing my toes as hard as I can and really paying attention to my legs. Which just goes to show… Sexy is what ever it is to the person doing it!!
And poledanceromance — thanks for the dolphin info! I forgot about them! Bonobos (another primate) also do lots of sex play, but I’m not sure about actual intercourse. I’m a big science nerd, too! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
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Thanks for starting this discussion thread. I’ve been interested in what you all have had to say so far. I want to start sharing my opinion on this subject by reviewing a dialogue had with a friend while dining together at our favorite Chinese restaurant.
Refering to the song playing on the radio, "Wasted" performed by Carrie Underwood, I made the statement, "I think I really want to dance to this song."
"THIS song?" Nikki replied, confused.
"Yes, why not?"
Still trying to understand, Nikki asked, "So do you just really like Country music a lot, or what?"
"No, not generally, but this particular song moves me for some reason. I think it would interpret well in a dance."
"But you can’t dance to this!"
"Why not?"
And then it came out. Nikki replied, "because it isn’t sexy!"
So then I went there. "Why should that matter? Why should I have to be sexy?"
"Well…. because you’re on a pole!"
I will admit to being irritated by that dialogue. Personally, I don’t find it terribly distasteful to be thought capable of erotic movement, but because Nikki is my friend I have wanted her to be able to understand that pole dancing for me is a type of acrobatic performance, rather than erotic entertainment. The attitude I have toward pole dancing would place poles in circuses rather than in sexual types of environments. I personally do have respect for exotic dancers. I consider them artists of a sort. Its easy to have charisma when you feel wanted by droves of attractive and charming people. To remain charismatic while marketing oneself to drunken, lonely, chauvenistic and potentially obnoxious individuals takes a high degree of skill and self-control. Mind you, I’m sure there are some clubs where a higher callibre of individual is in attendance; but in general, I think the likelihood of going into a gentleman’s club and finding an actual "gentleman" are probably not particularly high. But I digress.
I aspire toward a pinnacle of physical virtuosity. This is not so I can be beautiful, it’s so that I can be efficient in athletic and acrobatic types of performances. Should I, at some point, choose to consciously integrate sexuality into my work on the pole, or any other performance medium, the sexuality is merely a decoration. For me, sex and pole are about as connected as pine trees are with blown glass bulbs. People put bulbs on trees, but there is no innate connection between them. I think connecting poles with sexuality makes about as much sense as connecting sexuality with radiators, tennis balls, or lemons. In one of Amcut’s video’s I saw her use part of her wall/countertop in a way that looked pretty damned hot. But speaking just for myself, it doesn’t seem that it would be logical to consider all walls to possess erotic qualities just because someone looked fantastic when using it as part of some sensual movement.
Any medium can be used for purposes of erotica, whether in private or in performance. Chairs are sometimes used in exotic dance, but how many of us have been asked if we are strippers just because we’ve been seated in a chair? Food can be used in a way that is sexy. Music can be used to entertain in an erotic way, as easily as it can be used for other kinds of entertainment.
On the converse side of this, really any activity could be considered sexually exciting by someone, and it doesn’t have to be an erotic performance done scantily clad. High school, college, and professional athletes can tend to be labeled "players" in their personal lives as the result of their sexual prowess. I’m sure we all remember some of these personalities from our own time in school, our team positions, or by looking at tabloids and gossip television programmes. But even though sports such as football do not contain an inherently erotic element in them, there appears to be something about competitive sports that generates a charisma that many women and perhaps some men seem to find very sexually exciting. The same can be said of musical performances. Many singers, guitarists, and other musicians are highly coveted sexually, even though their musical stylings, attire, and movements may not be overtly sexual in performance. Why is this? My theory is that there is a particular kind of glory projected on performers and athletes of different kinds, and there is something in us that understands that by engaging the recipient of that projection in a sexual way, we are somehow increasing our own sense of self and collective value and partaking in a piece of that other person’s glory ourselves. This glory can be carried equally well by a political leader, a medical pioneer, a goalie on a hockey team, a celebrity chef, an animal rescuer, or a pole dancer. We all want to partake of the power, strength, grace, mercy, money, beauty, charm, genius, expressiveness, and creativity of others; and at least to a limited degree, sex and sexuality enable us to do that. But when we do, I think it is important to remember that it is often we who are projecting the sexuality on something we value in that other person, rather than experiencing a sexual feeling directly which would be based on physical, emotional, or intellectual attraction and chemistry.
The last time I did a public pole dance performance, I selected music that could be considered somewhat macabre, and tried to choreograph in a way that communicated a similar feeling. I was furious at the DJ who did not prepare the music as I had paid him weeks in advance to do, because I had to improvise a performance to a song I had never heard before. Even though the performance was successful, I was livid, mainly because I didn’t get to express myself how I desired to. I feel that as a pole dancer, if I would like to express erotic feelings through my music, I absolutely have the right to do that. Likewise, I feel quite entitled to express melancholy, anger, jollity, childishness, despair, remorse, reverie, respect, or whatever other feeling I would like to express. My hope as a pole dance performer is that whatever audience I end up in front of will recognise and appreciate the emotion I’m trying to express by movement and song selection, rather than doing one of the following: either experiencing that performance as having to do something with sexuality, or criticising the performance because it wasn’t sexy enough.
This, like so many other issues, just comes down to preference. When I competed in a talent show in November, I pole danced and I felt like I very successfully pulled off some erotic movement. This was so that I could garner the audience response that I would need in order to win. But when I gave my follow-up performance to collect the rest of my prize money the next time that show was held, I selected a song that I didn’t feel sexual about and choreographed in a way that I didn’t feel was sexual, because I wasn’t "competing" and didn’t have to impress anyone. If I have to use sex to sell my pole dancing, I’m willing to do that. But if I can avoid it, I would prefer to.
I appreciate pole dancers like Kym, who wears sneakers in her pole performances, and Barbara that won Pole Superstar, who did that performance barefooted. I love the videos taken from Jenyne’s master classes on her UK tour, and did not feel remotely deprived that she didn’t wear high heel shoes for those performances; and in fact I thought it made her lines look straighter and cleaner. I find heels distracting and liable to subtract something from the performance. The hypocrisy which can be found in pole dancing never ceases to amaze me. We demand first to be recognised as athletes and fitness enthusiasts instead of strippers, and then in performance we adhere rigidly to traditional strip-club style dancing, performing many of the exact same dance moves that can be seen on any day in any strip club. I am okay with being thought of as a stripper firstly because I respect strippers and secondly because even if I did have a problem with being thought of that way I know that isn’t what I’m doing. I suspect that many people who are successful pole dancers have fantasies or fetishes of being a stripper. But its hard for me to respect someone demanding to be recognised as an athlete who orgasmically wiggles around on the floor in string and heels. But then I must admittedly make some note of hypocrisy in my own statement here, because if I’m trying to help to divorce poles from strippers in the minds of the people I interact with, it is unfair of me to say that specific kinds of attire and dance moves are typical of strippers just because strip clubs are the specific location where those dance moves are usually performed and that attire is worn. I suspect it’s possible that what we’re really doing is bringing the strip club out of the gutter and into daylight, and lending some legitimacy to what it offers.
Having said all of that, I want to express that I am equally skeptical of the "pole fitness" fad. I personally do not use pole dancing as a way to keep myself fit, even though I recognise that it is one of the results. I am definitely not on the pole fitness bandwagon, though. I pole dance as a means of aerial performance. I keep fit in order to be more effective as a pole dancer, rather than pole dancing for fitness. To me, it seems as though the pole fitness crowd has polarised itself against the erotic pole performance crowd. I fall into neither category, as far as I can tell. But I am convinced that the more adamant one is about pole dancing for fitness, the greater the anxiety is present with regard to ones own sexuality. Quite often the pole fitness nazis are among the seediest movers on the floor, as far as I have observed. The remainder seem to be unattached to any particular philosophy about pole, but merely express their love for this art through sharing their dances. Of course one has to acknowledge that one develops a stronger and healthier body as the result of being on the pole, but I find it hard to believe that this is the primary motivation for most pole enthusiasts.
Last, but quite related, I’m slightly disturbed by some recent comments on one of my videos on YouTube. I do find it ironic that I received two comments in less than a week inquiring if I was gay because I posted a pole dance video, which I didn’t think was sexual at all, homo or otherwise. Its funny how people want to tack sexuality onto everything. When I started wearing occasional black eyeliner and got my ears pierced, I felt like I had to defend against the same line of questions with the same types of answers.
http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=jZ8Whz5wLSo
In this dialogue, I felt as though it was necessary to defend pole dancing from being called "gay" rather than being called stripping. After all this time, we are still a pretty misunderstood lot. What else can we do besides pray for these poor people?
I know that was really long-winded. I had no idea all that was about to come out! Do forgive me for writing another novel!
I have to confess, though… if I were a little less afraid of being perceived as sexual when I do a performance or a recording, I have to imagine my routines would be more danceworthy and flowy, and a bit less trick-after-trick-after-trick. I have always been apt to admit that (pole-related) dancing is not my strong suit; I find the acrobatics a lot easier and this may be part of the reason.
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Foxy, I think I understand your point, and it’s very well articulated! Being a fan of burlesque, myself, I’m fine about the pasties and things, but I think a lot of the grabbing and blatant sexuality in burlesque is meant to be humorous…I’ve seen one woman who grabbed both boobs, and then went "Oh!" like that totally WASN’T what she was going for…but it was all planned, and I thought it was cute and funny.
However, I think that blatant, clear "I’ma give you a boner" is also a turn-off for me, and I actually have a difficult thing with the whole…crotch touching. I’ve thought about it, and it’s really not my thing. Neither is showing it off. I know a move I learned from the studio I used to go to (and may have even done it in my video!) that’s called the "money shot," which I’ve officially decided to do AWAY from the audience, mostly because I don’t want to be blatantly showing that part! I think it’s far more interesting to be showing it, but not to the audience…make them wonder! -
Even a Chinese pole, with a maleperformer, can be sexual. I think there is a great deal of sexiness in this Chinese pole video of Remi Martin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaB_0LUGfjQ"
Saphirecatzeye, your opinion is really interesting. I think contortionism is *definitely* viewed by some folks as *very* sexual – the whole "sexy flexy" (bendy in bed) thing! Does that annoy you?
Personally, I’m so in awe at the superhuman strengths and abilities of gymnasts, contortionists, pole dancers, aerial acrobats alike that the presence of heels, a sculpted male torso, or booty popping doesn’t even register on my scandal-o-meter!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
I LOVE that performance by remi martin! for me i see it as the furthest away from being sexual , the song ‘Hope there’s someone’ by Antony & Johnsons is so emotional , and if you look up him playing it live on YouTube he is known for showing such passion in his singing. I just feel it was pure beauty and expression. Like Remi was connecting to Antony’s feelings though dance. but thats just how i see it.
And after you mentioned it about contortion being viewed as sexy, I know people do see it that way. But it doesnt have the stigma like pole dancing does. I’ve also had alot more guys think its weird and painful looking than respond the other way. (in my personal at-home life not internet) But i’m also a big fantasy (books and movies) fan, so I see contortion and pole as forms to take you to ‘another world’ almost https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gifHmm.. perhaps I would have been more true to say "sensual" instead of "sexual" at the start of my post here. Oh what a fine line that is sometimes!
Contortism is damn cool, whatever it is!
Everyones opinions here are really interesting! Great thread!
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ok so had to walk away and take a deep breath before responding as was quite irritated by some statements. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_mad.gif first i would like to say everyone is entitled to their own opinions/beliefs/feelings and i think it’s great that we can talk openly an dhonestly about these sorts of things. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif i am going to try to keep this short and focus on the bottom line of this issue. to me any sort of dance / art is a form of SELF expression. meaning you express how YOU feel. not how someone else says or thinks you should feel. i dance barefoot w shorts and in a very cheecky, fun way, but i also dance in 5 inch heels and not much else. and.. ? https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_queen.gif i enjoy many styles of dance and the oppurtunityto use diffrent movements, expressions, outfits ect to express myself. i believe there is a time and a place for everything. you can’t go into a strip club and than be offended when a girl is topless and touching herself. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_bounce.gif yor in HER enviroment. she is not in your living room. thats like jumping into the middle of the ocean and being mad when you get attacked ny a shark. you went looking for it. if you are at a family oriented pole performance, yes i would expect a diffrent dress and attitude from the performers. it’s like that "woman" who sat there watching a pole vid and calling the girls whores.. hello YOU are seeking it out. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif its not lilke strippers walk around wearing a gstring and having their breasts hang out while they groccery shop. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_surprised.gif
if your judging someone based on what they have on their feet or how they express themselves thru dance ( in the appropriate enviroment. wouldnt be cool to see someone on a pole at the park rubbing themselves) it says more about you than it does about them. at the end of the day it’s your choice how you dance/express yourself and as long as your are old enough, not breaking the law, or doing things in an inappropriate enviroment, who’s going to stop you and why would you let anyone control how you use YOUR body? i think as women we should try to suppourt each others desicions, https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_flower.gif and if you dont like what you see, well you can always turn your head or walk away. i don’t care if anyone likes it or not (me poling) and i think thats why even the few people who thought they were going to discourage me know better now. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_batman.gif pOLER FOR LIFE BABY! and i will do it naked, w tit tassles, heels, barefoot, sexy, coy, or whatever/however i feel! -
Wowee! There’s some strong feelings here! Sex, religion and politics are not for polite conversation- someone told me that once. Lucky for me I am not a polite person! I just wanted to say I agree with everyone’s comments to some extent; you all made valid points. We’re all entitled to our own styles of pole, our own opinions, our own sexuality, our own hang ups, our own values….you get the point. What we are not entitled to is trying to impose these things on others. Everyone- enjoy what you do and let everyone else do the same. I LOVE the sexy side of pole, but I totally downplay that side when talking to most people because I’m trying to open their eyes and I don’t want to scare them off. I am already in the tiny monority in several categories in our conservative town- I don’t want to be burned at the stake!
I guess I just wanted to wish everyone happy poling- whether you’re wearing shorts and tennies or 8 inch pleasers and a smile. Peace!
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AMEN GIRL! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif POWER TO THE POLERS !!!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_sunny.gif (regardless of style, opinion ect https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_queen.gif )
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I just wanna say I love you guys. All of you. And I love all of your opinions! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
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I remember an interview that Felix did last year in the UK, and how she felt about pole dancing and stigmas etc (or something like that). She said that her aim was to make people realise that just like any other form of dance, the interpretation of movement by polers can be just as varied, and one form (etc fitness) isn’t better or worse than any other (ie erotic), but instead all types should be celebrated as unique and beautiful.
I totally agree with her, personally my style is more to the balletic/lyrical type, and while I appreciate the ‘fitness’ aspect of it you’ll NEVER see me wearing sneakers in a performance (if you’re not going to wear heels, a lovely pointed toe looks much better https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif ). @StellarMotion I totally agree that this whole extreme fitness vs sexy is totally unnecessary, a silly polarisation that limits the style you can learn depending on the studio owner’s take on it.
I think sexiness in pole dancing come from that mesmerising ‘OMFG-I-can’t-look-away-they’re-amazing’ ability where the dance just EXUDES confidence, every movement to the smallest hair toss is performed 110%, whether she’s wearing an itty bitty bikini or shorts and a tank top.
I’m taking some lessons at Bobbi’s in Perth at the moment, where you have to wear pleaser-type heels when training. I have to say what they excel at is not just teaching a move/trick, but all the idiosyncrasies of the initial invert, the small movements to position into the trick, and right to the type of dismount, which in my opinion are just as important as getting the trick itself. Consequently the instructors and students are just amazing, every movement is just soooo sensual, I’m trying hard to copy but right now I’m just concentrating on not falling over in the shoes https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_redface.gif )
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