Poledancefan
Forum Replies Created
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Blush uses powder coat LM's. I would say if you are north of the 45th parallel or otherwise in dry and cold climes a good part of the year, powder just saves a lot of fuss that six months. But yes, they can get too grippy if you get a hot and humid day. But you can always make yourself less grippy with the tiniest smidgeon of lotion spread on a hot washcloth and just wipe your legs and torso down with it…
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
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Oh my…definitely NOT! It's hard enough not hurting the man-parts with three pairs of mini briefs on for cushioning. But for men, topless is kind of a necessity for upper body grip–unless you are only doing hand grip work.
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, IIlinois
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Yes, and you can even paint it the same color as the ceiling or buy some of that fake "texture" spray paint that mimics finishes like stucco…or whatever…to match the ceiling. Menards has a goody bin of dowels, end pieces, and scraps from custom cuts. I once bought boards there for 12 cents a piece to stack under the air conditioners in winter so they don't sit on the basement floor that is prone to flooding. You can also purchase sticky backed carpet tile or fake wood grain tile and custom cut it to fit over the board so it looks like whatever is already up there!
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
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This is a great thread. I was flattered to be mentioned in a few of the comments. I've been very lucky to find a pole home at Blush in Milwaukee. I haven't had any problems being accepted and there are 4 or 5 women who show up regularly at the co-ed and open pole time slot at 8:30 PM. It's a somewhat flexibly formattted class. We do beginner's stuff when there are newbies and work on tricks when the people attending are more experienced at pole. In some ways my case is kind of special. I had been taking circus classes with Amy, Andrea, Nat, Angela, and Maureen for almost 2 years. They drove down from Milwaukee on a regular basis for aerial. When I had the chance to go up there on a weekly basis, I JUMPED at the chance. It's 200 miles round trip, but worth EVERY single mile and minute. Pole has always had a social component for me and even though the ladies in our aerial skills focus group actually pole on different nights and days at Blush, they've come for drop-ins at open pole/co-ed so we can all hang out together in a pole setting. Amy is such a sweetheart; there's always a turkey club sandwich and a double chocolate chip cookie left by the storage lockers every Thursday. That's a nice little treat for the ride home and saves me time so I can get on the road back to Chicago right away. Fridays are VERY slow for me at work–I'm usually back at home and in bed by midnight Thursdays, so it works out quite well!
It's kind of cool how pole has come full circle for me. I started aerial lessons only because there were no nearby pole classes for men. Then I met aerial people who poled and had seen me at the very first MIDWEST. Then I ended up poling with them in class. Blush is a special place–very supportive and positive! It's been a WONDERFUL experience and I am very grateful for the opportunity.
Joel Lessing (or "Poledancefan")
Forest Park, Illinois
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It's good to hear from you Tara! I do follow your posts on Facebook, but I hadn't heard about the recurrence of the panic attacks. If it is any consolation, I have also suffered from them and many other kinds of anxiety related things throughout the course of my life. They seemto come and go in waves and are often brought on–or at least aggravated–by external stresses in life. And there seems to be a LOT of that lately, lol!! You are certainly a hero to all of us…not just for your amazing pole skills, but for showing the rest of us how to hang in there and push through the difficult periods in life.
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
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Yes, I do keep in contact with Stephanie, her fraternal twin sister. Lola is still living in British Columbia. I think she is doing fine, although I couldn't find the thread I had with her sister Stephie on Facebook. I know Stephie was super busy and went off Facebook for a while. They were both students and Stephie also volunteers a lot with her charity and benefit work and suspends her account when she is feeling too busy. I think Lola was a little frustrated with her knee injury and left pole for a while. I was in Pole Camp with both of them 2 years ago, they are both really nice…but they look completely different! I'll try to get in contact with Stephie and see if she can get Lola to "resurface."
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Payton, have you taken a moment to sit back and reflect about how you are behaving and speaking and what the eventual long term consequences of your speech and behavior might be?
Several years ago, when I was a lone male poler–not a very good one (still not, lol!), Veena took a risk and invited me on here to become part of a family. Throughout the years I have bent over backwards to respect that hand of friendship. I've done everything possible to promote pole for men and women and mature young people in a postive way. I have also disagreed with people from time to time (I'm sure Christopher (Webmaster) would be happy to tell you we don't see eye to eye on politics!!) But I've learned to LISTEN, to show RESPECT, and temper my speech with reflection and carefully chosen words.
The rewards have been many. This summer I drove my car across an international boundary on an unplanned trip to Montreal and walked into three studios unannounced and was welcomed like a brother, fed, wined, and dined, taken to recitals, and given courtesy lessons–all on the strength of the friendships and goodwill built up in this community.
You look like a beautiful young lady with a LONG life ahead of her; filled with the potential of adventures, friendships, pole jams, good times, meals and drinks shared with friends. You need to step back and ask yourslef why you are poisoning the well like this. No one says you can't be opinionated (God knows MANY of the pole idols ARE!!)–but there is a way to do it without so much rancor. Step back from this tone you have taken–ten years from now you'll look back and see no gain from what you are doing. On the other hand, if you learn to express yourself in a more mature manner, you will reap rewards and lasting benefit for your entire life.
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
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Empyrean is correct. I am a state employee here in Illinois and we receive extensive training in what constitutes illegal or imporoper exchanges of funds. The term kickback always refers to a sum of money given to circumvent a normal competitive process (such as negotiating or bidding) and create a contract or a job or a relationship that is either improper, concealed, or against the interests of the final consumer or the citizen. Typically, when there is a kickback, the price of a service or a commodity (like concrete in building a toll road as happened a few years back here in Illinois) is inflated beyond the normal margins to create the revenue for the kickback.
I don't like to be indiscreet or talk out of school, but I am going to go so far as to say that I have been around the pole community quite a while…and had more than a few drinks and dinners privately with MANY of the folks in this industry and I can tell you straight from the horse's mouth that ALL of the major pole manufacturers have their problems, screw-ups, customer service disasters, and other such missteps. I could tell you stories about the "other brands" that would make your hair stand up–and I mean events I have witnessed myself! I've seen "POLE FAILS" from at least three of the major manufacturers…
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
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Payton, my gut feeling here is that you are having some issues with a new pole and are feeling really frustrated about it. I noticed that you said on your home page that you actually GOT an X-pole recently. I was a little taken aback by the language you used. "Kickback" is a very harsh term and probably shouldn't be used in the absence of some evidence. I've known Julie and Christopher (and yes, I am going to use real names here for a reason) since 6 months after this site opened. I have met them in person on countless occaisons, eaten with them, planned and organized events with them. I have mutual friends in common with them who've stayed at their house, babysat their children, and trained with them. I have never known either of them to conduct themselves in any other manner but with integrity and honesty.
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
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I'm definitiely coming to the event! I've been talking this up BIG TIME at the Actor's Gymnasium in Evanston, Illinois –trying to convince some of the aerial ladies this would be a fun road trip. I hope we get a big group to come. Some of the aerial students are also polers from a studio near Milwaukee and I think some of them might perform! I'm also trying to convince my wife Laurie to come for part of the showcase. /Joel Lessing
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Fireside is pretty much right, I think. Basically, any business is going to be the target of a liability action simply because it is standing there…existing. Period. Claims are often made as tactics for a settlement. My favorite claim of all time was against a GAS STATION across the street from the fire that killed 100 people in a bar due to a fireworks acicdent INSIDE THE BAR. Why did they sue the gas station? Because the owner of the gas station said it was OK for bar patrons to use his empty parking places at night! But the real reason was the connection with a multi-billion dollar company–Amoco. The bar had only a tiny bit of insurance, the lawywers hoped they could somehow draw Amoco into the suit…but it was completely irrelevant and the judge threw it out. But you can bet AMOCO spent some bucks on that one…
Your best bet is a line of liabuility insurance based on injury risk in a comparable setting. I'd talk to insurance agents that insure gymnastics studios and horse riding stables…other stuff like that and just hunker down and expect that in a lifetime sooner or later there will be a claim and a payout and that's just the nature of the business. Waivers don't mean all that much in the sense that in most states, gross negligence cannot ever be waivered away, so the plaintiff is going to search something out–like the dixie cups in the bathroom were too tiny and they choked to death on them…anything they can think of, lol… Furthermore, a lot of people have no choice on filing a lawsuit. All American health insurers just do it automatically anyway…and they don't care if the injured person wants to sue or not. They just sue for the re-imbursement with or without your permission. If you refuse to help them, they refuse to pay for your medecines or bills. So the client is in a bind one way or another…./joel
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My sister was at the After Party when it was busted…apparently it had nothing to do with USPDF…but the owners had served an underaged kid the day before and got their license yanked. Igot separated form the main bunch of people and a few of the NYPD staff got a pole set-up across the street, but a lot of people ahd left by then. I felt sorry for the ladies who worked so hard…they were literally carrying boxes of pizza and deli-trays up and downthe street looking for a place to put them. THe party the year before had gone really well–it was just a bum break for them. Lian Tal's reception at B and P the next day was awesome…I got to take part in judging the pole cleaner contest….fun times, lol! …AND…challenged Karol to a hip roll-off. Ha Ha, big mistake on my part…but lots of fun!
Joel Lessing–Poledancefan
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WOW! This is a fascinating topic. I 'd love to hear the perspective of other men…or from any men who would identify themselves as "asexual." Actually, I always thought of my very first supervisor that way. Mr. H was a really low key guy…inhis late 40's, lived with his mom, smoked a pipe only in his car onthe way home fromwork…and had fishing as his only hobby. He never married, never spoke of a girlfriend, never joked, talked, or looked at women in "that way" EVER..not once in my presence at least. Nothing about him would have made you think he was gay either…he just seemed "not interested." Period.
Ihave to admit I can only appreciate asexuality as a kind of abstraction. To me, being obsessed with women, the way they look, their company, and sexuality has been pretty much a central feature of my identity and I can't see it otherwise. Everything about women is fascinating to me and I love being with them and around them! I do remember the years before adolescense somewhat…but even then, girls were fascinating to me and I was always chasing after the ones with long hair just to pull on it and feel their hair.. LOL, sorry…that sounds kind of pervy, I guess…but it's true. I'm a happily and faithfully married guy, but I would be lying if I didn't admit I love flirting and "playing" for the attention of the ladies…it's almost like amachine I cannot turnoff, even though I am not really any good at it!
I guess I believe that these things are mostly hard-wired into us from birth…essentially the reason why I reject homophobia and discrimination against gay people. There may be some range of orientation that is tilted a little one way or the other by life experiences…but the basic sexual tempermeant seems pretty much fixed from birth in my opinion.
/Joel Lessing "Poledancefan"
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This is a very exciting thread! I hope you all have a great time!! /Joel Lessing
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Laurie's going to try to get me a room on her discount card. Where is everyone staying/? Heard some are at Red Roof Inn? Text me or call me 708 642-4246 /joel
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Uh Oh!… ::Looks around Embarrassed::
When I saw Tinu's clarification, I must admit I felt a little uncomfortable. It's important to be precise when posting publicly on controversial matters. I will now offer a FULL apology for jumping into the fray on my FB page a little too early without firming up my facts.
Rest assured I jumped into support Tinu almost reflexively. You ladies have all been so good to me that I get a little protective and defensive right away when someone seems to be attacking pole. And you all know my feelings about anything that seeks to divide exotic dancers from the "rest of us." I really hate that and so Tinu's original post kind of pushed my buttons. But I hope everyone remembers my use of the words "hyper respectful and polite"–so I hope I didn't do any damage to the hobby.
Hana, I appreciate your reservations about APFA. I want to remain discreet and supportive of the efforts of anyone who seeks to expand the pole movement. I will go so far as to say that APFA and Pole Spin have had some growing pains. I have dealt with TInu on a 1×1 basis and she can be a "strong" force to deal with. I have communicated privately with polers who have had some "difficulties" with the organization and I do think that APFA has some room to grow in terms of regularizing and adjusting their internal operations to the norms of business practice. (LOL, yes, I know…that sentence is an artful dodge…but work with me here…PLEASE!). We've got some dynamic and strong people in this movement and sometimes their enthusiasm runs ahead of their experience. I'm going to take as positive a view of this as I can of what happened. First of all, I screwed up personally by not tempering my reaction with a little time and thought. And I think Tinu's clarification indicates she knows now that perhaps a more finely tuned post would have ultimately served the cause better.
Joel Lessing
Forest Park, Illinois
Poledancefan
mailto:JoelOwen@aol.com
Joel Lessing on Facebook
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I am staying at the Marrakech. It is right down the block from SYmphony Space. I will be there on Thursday afternoon, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Morning. I will plan on attending the SV jam for sure! My phone number is 708-642-4246. Please progeam that in your cell if you will be on New York so we can all text and call each other.
Joel Lessing
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So, is Hotel 99 the semi-official Veener place?
Joel Lessing
(Poledancefan)
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So, is Hotel 99 the semi-official Veener place?
Joel Lessing
(Poledancefan)
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I just bought my tickets for 2011. I'm interested in knowing if there is a hotel where most people will be staying. I'll keep checking back. My sister's apartment (she doesn't actually live there) is also on the same block as Symphony Space–but I'm not sure I want to ask her again if I can stay there. I slept on the floor last year ,lol!
I'll keep checking this thread.
Joel Lessing
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Yes, Sascha…I agree. I just got a brand new Vaio laptop and the stripped down Movie Maker is a disaster. Fortunately, I kept my old E-machine hooked up and I will just wait the 6 1/2 minutes it takes to boot the old war horse up and connect to the FLIP because it has all of the great features for making videos.
Joel
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I remember seeing an article about this in the newspaper and I thought the judgment was against the club, not the dancer. Lawyers only sue when there is a reasonable chance of getting a pay-off for insurance..or the conversion of a valuable asset–like a house, a property, or a restaurant. I’m not going to stereotype dancers and say it is completely impossible that a club dancer would have nearly three quarters of a million dollars in cash to pay damages, but it seems unlikely. But some states and municipalities do require bars ("dram-shops") to have dram shop and liability coverage. In Illinois there used to be a cap $40,00 per incident if it involves alcohol…not sure about other types of things or what the law is now.
If you dance for money and own a house in a non real property protected state ( anywhere except TEXAS…..FLORIDA), then it might be an issue…or if you have some real cash sitting in the bank…like THOUSANDS…then, yes, insurance is a good idea. There is a reason why OJ Simpson keeps a house in Florida –it’s a judgment proof state–for houses, at least. But given the typical demography of the student, young female dancer putting herself through school…there isn’t going to be an asset to sue against in most cases. But I suppose it is a good idea to ask the club management about liability coverage for dancers anyway.
Nowadays, everybody sues ANY deep pocket they can find. When the 100 people were killed in that bar fire (from the fireworks show) in (Rhode Island)?…they only had a few 100K of insurance–nowhere near enough to compensate the victim’s families. But there was an AMOCO station across the street (now BP) and the gas station guy used to let people just park their cars in his empty lot there while they were watching the bands play in the bar. As a result, the plaintiffs attorneys tried to link Amoco to the lawsuit, claiming the AMOCO corporation was "responsible" for the fireworks, explosion, and the deaths of the bar patrons. It was a very spurious claim, but AMOCO and successor BP spent a huge amount of legal fees getting the claim thrown out. Not to defend BP-AMOCO..ha ha, they are not my favorite folks necessarily…but it is absolutely clear that this ONE time, the palintiffs were hoping for a deep pocket…and BP-AMOCO had BILLIONS…whereas the bar owner barely had 5 bucks to his name…
Joel
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I haven’t had too many opportunities to try different poles and finishes…but I think I like Brass the best. As a heavy male poler, the grip is really nice for keeping all 200 pound of me up on the pole.
This thread gave me an idea. At the next pole convention, wouldn’t it be nice to have a "pole testing" room where there was one pole of every diameter and coating. Then you could try out each one and make a decision to inform future purchases.
Just a fantasy, I guess…
Joel Lessing (poledancefan)
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Oh my goodness…almost a year and a half later and this topic is STILL going strong!
lol….
Joel Lessing
(I always do a few handstands against the pole before practice…to "vent" anything that needs to find an exit!!!)
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I can totally relate to the weird body proportion frustrations. A lifetime of extreme bike riding has giving me fairly decent looking legs…but they are muscular and very dense and heavy. I cannot lean back very well for planks and laybacks easily…a problem made worse by the male anatomy problem. I’ve got a nice fat beer gut in the middle, but I feel like my shoulders and upper anatomy are deficient. The only real way for my to lose any belly weight is to lose a LOT more weight all over my body and whenever I try to do that, I get skinny toothpick legs and it looks bizarre to me. I fell like the only way I would look normally proportioned would be to work with a trainer and target certain areas.
Joel Lessing
